The Derek Chauvin Trial

Dana said:
If you can't write something intelligent...please do not respond to my posts. It matters not to a child whether there is anything "admirable" about their father. What the hell is "without benefit of clergy" got to do with it. A lot of white people also have children with several fathers or mothers!!!
To a child, a father is a father and loved!
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I chose not to marry the father of my son. I am white, it didn’t cause any problems whatsoever. They have a good relationship. 🙂
 

Ruthanne said:
So George Floyd wasn't perfect--well who on this Earth is? Everyone makes mistakes in life! As it's been said who is without sin may cast the first stone.

Regardless of his mistakes he sure didn't deserve to die the way he did.
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Entering someone's home by deception , then sticking a gun in their stomach in an armed robbery ....... I not a mistake !

That ia an attack of intention , and might possibly have been committed just as easily against you.
 

Dana said:
That's as it should be Shalimar... (y)
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Shalimar said:
I chose not to marry the father of my son. I am white, it didn’t cause any problems whatsoever. They have a good relationship. 🙂
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Did you do it five times with five different men? Because that's the kind of "culture" I'm talking about. You're an educated professional who can take care of your offspring. Fathering children at random and letting the chips fall where they may is, to me, almost pathologically irresponsible.

The out of wedlock birth rate among black people in the US is about 73 percent. That's a major factor in the problems we're all facing.
 
Pepper said:
No matter how ghastly the crimes of George Floyd were, they are irrelevant to the drama of his death.
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To me, the big question is why our society produces so many George Floyds. There is racism and a lack of opportunity, but there are also cultural factors (the high rate of illegitimate births among them) that exacerbate the problem. I'm sure to be castigated as a racist for saying that but I don't really care at this point.
 
JimBob1952 said:
To me, the big question is why our society produces so many George Floyds. There is racism and a lack of opportunity, but there are also cultural factors (the high rate of illegitimate births among them) that exacerbate the problem. I'm sure to be castigated as a racist for saying that but I don't really care at this point.
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You have a point … however, the way you’re putting it across does not make any sense in this modern era. “Out of wedlock” is so old hat…one does not have to be married to have a child. If you say, too many people from a particular section of society are ignoring birth control, then I can accede to that.

In any event…in this case none of these sentiments are relevant. We are dealing with the actions of a police officer that resulted in the death of a person, regardless of how many children he fathered.
 
It's not a question of being inadequate. A lot of the social pathologies described in the report have only gotten worse. On the other hand, a robust Black middle class has grown and Black people have broken down barriers everywhere. In 1965 it was unimaginable that Black people would run companies such as Merck or American Express, let alone serve as POTUS or VPOTUS.

BTW, thank you for engaging in civil discourse, as always.
 
Dana said:
You have a point … however, the way you’re putting it across does not make any sense in this modern era. “Out of wedlock” is so old hat…one does not have to be married to have a child. If you say, too many people from a particular section of society are ignoring birth control, then I can accede to that.

In any event…in this case none of these sentiments are relevant. We are dealing with the actions of a police officer that resulted in the death of a person, regardless of how many children he fathered.

Dana said:
You have a point … however, the way you’re putting it across does not make any sense in this modern era. “Out of wedlock” is so old hat…one does not have to be married to have a child. If you say, too many people from a particular section of society are ignoring birth control, then I can accede to that.

In any event…in this case none of these sentiments are relevant. We are dealing with the actions of a police officer that resulted in the death of a person, regardless of how many children he fathered.
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You asked me not to reply to your posts, so I won't.
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JimBob1952 said:
Did you do it five times with five different men? Because that's the kind of "culture" I'm talking about. You're an educated professional who can take care of your offspring. Fathering children at random and letting the chips fall where they may is, to me, almost pathologically irresponsible.

The out of wedlock birth rate among black people in the US is about 73 percent. That's a major factor in the problems we're all facing.
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I have known white women who had children with multiple fathers. Poverty and despair can affect people’s choices. If I had not been rescued from the streets by a kind black veteran, who knows? Assuming I survived, which was unlikely, the trajectory of my life may have followed that path.
 
Shalimar said:
I have known white women who had children with multiple fathers. Poverty and despair can affect people’s choices. If I had not been rescued from the streets by a kind black veteran, who knows? Assuming I survived, which was unlikely, the trajectory of my life may have followed that path.
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It does seem that many success stories in life involve the intervention of another, caring human being at just the right time (i.e. the old saying "when the student is ready, the teacher will appear"). That was certainly also true in my case.

Tony
 
Shalimar said:
I have known white women who had children with multiple fathers. Poverty and despair can affect people’s choices. If I had not been rescued from the streets by a kind black veteran, who knows? Assuming I survived, which was unlikely, the trajectory of my life may have followed that path.
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I'm glad you have known white women who had children with multiple fathers. Statistically, however, the illegitimacy rate among black people is much higher than it is among white people. And statistically, children who grow up in stable, two-parent households do better in just about every way (educationally, physically, financially) than children who do not.
 
1. Whether Floyd was married "by clergy" to the mother of his children is totally irrelevant. In fact, I can hardly think of anything more irrelevant to this story! Jimbob, you seem to have a real hangup on the "illegitimacy" part of it. Puritanism apparently is still alive and well.

2. No matter how awful the crimes were that Floyd committed, it is not the place of a police officer to be the executioner. Floyd was no danger to anyone. Obviously, Chauvin got carried away with his own machismo, and was acting like a maniac.

Quote from Win:
"Nothing Floyd did was as bad as what Chauvin did.
Of the two, which one is the professional who swore an oath to uphold the law?" Amen to that, Win!

All a normal police officer would have done would have been to put handcuffs on him and bring him into the station.

3. Somebody suggested that the police murder rate against whites was just as bad. That is so absurd that it doesn't even deserve an answer. How many cases has anybody read where a black police officer meaninglessly murdered a white person for a minor infraction (or no infraction at all?)

4. As far as I know, Snopes bends over backward to be objective and honest. If they mistakenly print something that turns out not to be true, they always post a correction. Probably nothing is 100%, but Snopes comes close. I've been looking things up there for years, and have never found them lying, or being slanted one way or another.

The same is probably true of Wikipedia. If you don't like the truth, don't blame the messenger.
 
Sunny said:
1. Whether Floyd was married "by clergy" to the mother of his children is totally irrelevant. In fact, I can hardly think of anything more irrelevant to this story! Jimbob, you seem to have a real hangup on the "illegitimacy" part of it. Puritanism apparently is still alive and well.

2. No matter how awful the crimes were that Floyd committed, it is not the place of a police officer to be the executioner. Floyd was no danger to anyone. Obviously, Chauvin got carried away with his own machismo, and was acting like a maniac.

Quote from Win:
"Nothing Floyd did was as bad as what Chauvin did.
Of the two, which one is the professional who swore an oath to uphold the law?" Amen to that, Win!

All a normal police officer would have done would have been to put handcuffs on him and bring him into the station.

3. Somebody suggested that the police murder rate against whites was just as bad. That is so absurd that it doesn't even deserve an answer. How many cases has anybody read where a black police officer meaninglessly murdered a white person for a minor infraction (or no infraction at all?)

4. As far as I know, Snopes bends over backward to be objective and honest. If they mistakenly print something that turns out not to be true, they always post a correction. Probably nothing is 100%, but Snopes comes close. I've been looking things up there for years, and have never found them lying, or being slanted one way or another.

The same is probably true of Wikipedia. If you don't like the truth, don't blame the messenger.
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tbeltrans said:
It does seem that many success stories in life involve the intervention of another, caring human being at just the right time (i.e. the old saying "when the student is ready, the teacher will appear"). That was certainly also true in my case.

Tony
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Absolutely agree with you. My life was completely transformed by a sad and haunted man who lost his daughter to drugs and the mean Streets of Vancouver B.C. By accident, he found me beaten, in an alley, patched me up, and gave me

sanctuary until I could face the world again. To honour him for saving my sanity, and probably my life, I have spent the rest of my life paying it forward.
 
I don't care if people have children in or out of marriage. But if people do have children, I think they have a responsibility to take care of them. George Floyd did not shoulder that responsibility. Of course it had nothing to do with his death and I never said it did.

Yeah, I'm a real Puritan.

I don't think the rest of your post was directed at me.
 
Shalimar said:
Absolutely agree with you. My life was completely transformed by a sad and haunted man who lost his daughter to drugs and the mean Streets of Vancouver B.C. By accident, he found me beaten, in an alley, patched me up, and gave me

sanctuary until I could face the world again. To honour him for saving my sanity, and probably my life, I have spent the rest of my life paying it forward.
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Did you ever come across a doctor in Vancouver by the name of Gabor Mate? He's done a lot of work with the homeless and drug addicts there. I don't know if he's still active (since he's getting up there in age), but he's an interesting character. I've watched some talks he's given that are posted on YouTube.
 
Irwin said:
Did you ever come across a doctor in Vancouver by the name of Gabor Mate? He's done a lot of work with the homeless and drug addicts there. I don't know if he's still active (since he's getting up there in age), but he's an interesting character. I've watched some talks he's given that are posted on YouTube.
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I haven’t met him, but I have heard of him. My late boss knew him. Unique man.
 
Della said:
Chauvin is, and "upholding the law" is exactly what he was trying to do that day. The dispatcher told him to go to 38th and Chicago and help two rookies bring in a man charged with forgery. There followed a 25 minute struggle with Floyd resisting every step of the way and in classic "boy hollering wolf" pattern he was claiming he couldn't breathe while still standing beside his car so naturally he wouldn't be believed later.

Floyd's past of armed robbery would probably have been known to them, which is why Lane drew his gun when he approached Floyd's vehicle, and they were being more cautious than usual. By the time Floyd stopped struggling they would have all been exhausted -- and we don't know all the other calls they had been on that day.

It's my opinion that Chauvin is guilty of manslaughter based on the last 5 or 6 minutes when Floyd quit talking and struggling, but lets not forget what led up to that and Floyd's own part in what happened. Even that little girl witness knew that if you break the law the police will come and "mess with you."



Yet, there seems to be an enormous angry mob wanting to stone Chauvin to death for his mistake.
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You live in a world of make believe where all police officers are heroes & should be permitted to decide who lives & who dies because they are above the law. Deliberate murder is not a mistake. It's a crime. Once a suspect is handcuffed, the game is over.
Chauvin is a dirtbag who should never see the outside of prison.
 
win231 said:
You live in a world of make believe where all police officers are heroes & should be permitted to decide who lives & who dies because they are above the law. Deliberate murder is not a mistake. It's a crime. Once a suspect is handcuffed, the game is over.
Chauvin is a dirtbag who should never see the outside of prison.
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The bolded is just plain totally wrong. And you know that.
 
rgp said:
I disagree, all he had to do was comply with the custody/arrest . He took it to the ending we all witnessed . He killed himself.
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Since you think Chauvin did nothing wrong, why aren't you petitioning the court to free him?
Why would you allow such a travesty of justice & not even bother to write a letter?
 
JimBob, from several of your last few posts on this subject:

"Oh please. I'm sorry George Floyd died but he had five children "without benefit of clergy" that he didn't care a damn about.

The out of wedlock birth rate among black people in the US is about 73 percent. That's a major factor in the problems we're all facing.

I'm glad you have known white women who had children with multiple fathers. Statistically, however, the illegitimacy rate among black people is much higher than it is among white people.

There is racism and a lack of opportunity, but there are also cultural factors (the high rate of illegitimate births among them) that exacerbate the problem.

And finally,

I don't care if people have children in or out of marriage."

Huh?
 

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