Before anyone else takes the shot

Liberty said:
Antivaxxers are always around...urban myths abound...that's life:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4718347/

ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE

An "urban myth" concerning the association between influenza vaccination and Alzheimer's disease was created in 2005 after an episode of the television show "Larry King Live" in which Bill Maher was being interviewed by Larry King. Maher argued that "if you have a flu shot for more than five years in a row, there's ten times the likelihood that you'll get Alzheimer's disease" [23]. Dr. Maher was referring to Dr. Hugh Fudenberg's speech during the 1st annual International Public Conference on Vaccination, held by the National Vaccine Information Center in Arlington, Virginia in 1997 [24]. However, a study conducted by Verreault et al. in 2001 refuted Maher's claim. Indeed, by means of a prospective study – the "Canadian Study on Health and Aging", a cohort Study on dementia – Verreault et al. had shown that increased exposure to vaccines against diphtheria, tetanus, polio and flu not only was not a risk of contracting Alzheimer's, but could actually protect against the disease [25].
SeaBreeze said:
You're exactly right Pappy! Getting the vaccine at our ages when over 600,000 Americans have died from COVID-19 related complications, is just plain common sense. I have both of my Moderna vaccines, at 68 I'd rather be infected with a mild case of the coronavirus after vaccinated, than have a severe case that destroys my lungs, perhaps has me put into an induced coma and attached to a ventilator alone in a hospital for my last days on earth.

It's a no brainer, IMO, luckily most of the folks I know and have come in contact with were smart enough to get their vaccines. None of us wanted to be living through a worldwide pandemic in our golden years, but it would be foolish not to take and use all available precautions. Once again, I'm not a vaccine person or see the doctor often, but when a deadly virus is spreading across the country, I don't need to be convinced to protect myself and those I'm close to.
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Dana said:
All viruses are variants of each other...that is why vaccines are invented and why scientists have to keep one step ahead. All viruses mutate and that is why samples of past viruses are kept in vaults in labs so that they can be improved to fight future pandemics.
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Zinc - too little or too much has long been talked about with Alzheimers, like aluminum, in the human body.

https://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/guide/controversial-claims-risk-factors
 
DOD Tracking 14 Cases of Heart Inflammation in Troops After COVID-19 Shots: From Military.com:

The Defense Department is tracking 14 cases of heart inflammation, or myocarditis, in military health patients who developed the condition after receiving either the Pfizer or Moderna COVID-19 vaccine.​
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The rare disorder, usually caused by a virus, has been linked to COVID-19. But following a number of reports from Israel of patients developing the inflammation in conjunction with receiving vaccines, the Israeli Health Ministry is exploring a possible link, Israel's Channel 12 reported Friday, according to the Jerusalem Post.​
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Just another data point to be aware of and not a known trend at this time. More at the SOURCE.
 
JonDouglas said:
it's good to always think on your own, paying attention to all sides of an issue and not be chased into doing something by intense propaganda
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That is good advice. I was reading the article linked to the original post here and just the way it was written was not sounding scientific, it was wrapped up like it was, but full of wild speculation, so I googled the author, and it turns out he is a anti-vaxxer of very questionable reputation, this is quote from wikipedia:

"Barthelow Classen is an American immunologist and anti-vaccinationist. He received his M.D. from the University of Maryland, Baltimore in 1988, his M.B.A. from Columbia University in 1992 and obtained his medical license in October 1997.[1][2] He is best known for publishing research concluding that vaccines, in particular the Hib vaccine, cause insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus,[3] a hypothesis he proposed based on experiments he conducted on mice in 1996.[4] His views are disputed and considered unverified.

A widely-reposted 2021 Facebook post claiming that the mRNA vaccines against COVID-19 could cause prion diseases was based on a paper by Classen. The paper was published in Microbiology and Infectious Diseases, whose publisher, Scivision Publishers, is included in Beall's list of publishers of predatory journals. Vincent Racaniello, professor of microbiology and immunology at Columbia University, described the claim as "completely wrong".[5][6][7]

Anti-vaccination views
Classen proposes that vaccines cause diabetes by causing the release of interferons, causing an autoimmune state leading to immune-mediated type 1 diabetes,[8] and he is quoted on many anti-vaccine websites, such as that of the National Vaccine Information Center. His work has been criticized, for example, journalist Amy Wallace wrote that the vaccine-diabetes link "...relies on the flawed work of one doctor [Classen], who gathered data on a slew of vaccines and failed to follow standard study protocols. No other study — including those using the same data — could reproduce the results."[9] Independent studies that have investigated the potential link between vaccines and diabetes include one, published by Frank DeStefano, which "did not find an increased risk of type 1 diabetes associated with any of the routinely recommended childhood vaccines."[10] "
 
HoneyNut said:
That is good advice. I was reading the article linked to the original post here and just the way it was written was not sounding scientific, it was wrapped up like it was, but full of wild speculation, so I googled the author, and it turns out he is a anti-vaxxer of very questionable reputation, this is quote from wikipedia:

"Barthelow Classen is an American immunologist and anti-vaccinationist. He received his M.D. from the University of Maryland, Baltimore in 1988, his M.B.A. from Columbia University in 1992 and obtained his medical license in October 1997.[1][2] He is best known for publishing research concluding that vaccines, in particular the Hib vaccine, cause insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus,[3] a hypothesis he proposed based on experiments he conducted on mice in 1996.[4] His views are disputed and considered unverified.

A widely-reposted 2021 Facebook post claiming that the mRNA vaccines against COVID-19 could cause prion diseases was based on a paper by Classen. The paper was published in Microbiology and Infectious Diseases, whose publisher, Scivision Publishers, is included in Beall's list of publishers of predatory journals. Vincent Racaniello, professor of microbiology and immunology at Columbia University, described the claim as "completely wrong".[5][6][7]

Anti-vaccination views
Classen proposes that vaccines cause diabetes by causing the release of interferons, causing an autoimmune state leading to immune-mediated type 1 diabetes,[8] and he is quoted on many anti-vaccine websites, such as that of the National Vaccine Information Center. His work has been criticized, for example, journalist Amy Wallace wrote that the vaccine-diabetes link "...relies on the flawed work of one doctor [Classen], who gathered data on a slew of vaccines and failed to follow standard study protocols. No other study — including those using the same data — could reproduce the results."[9] Independent studies that have investigated the potential link between vaccines and diabetes include one, published by Frank DeStefano, which "did not find an increased risk of type 1 diabetes associated with any of the routinely recommended childhood vaccines."[10] "
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I am a little slower to stereotype people as vaxers or anti-vaxers since both are at extremes in the vaccination spectrum. As with many things, the truth is somewhere in the middle and highly dependent on the individual. Time will likely show that the great percentage of younger, healthier people did not need the vaccine and to label them as anti- is very unscientific. Equally unscientific is the shotgun approach suggesting everyone should be vaccinated. Be slow to put people down.
 
Doing further research of your own is always the best way to verify something that you have heard or read. I haven't done any double checking on HoneyNut's post but I do think Wikipedia is far from an authoritative information source. The Wikipedia article's Comments about Mr. Classen like "His views are disputed and considered unverified." can easily be applied to anyone in any field, Dr Fauci for example, Bill Gates.
 
digifoss said:
I do think Wikipedia is far from an authoritative information source
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The wikipedia article has references to the sources for the information, I agree that they themselves are not a authoritative source, but are an encyclopedia that is a convenience to consolidate info from other sources.
My dad used to sell encyclopedia sets as a part-time evening job when I was a kid. I guess that is yet another job that was lost to the computer age.
 
JonDouglas said:
The inherent problem in determining the extent to which a vaccine has positive and/or negative effects is one of statistical inference. Statistical inference is the process of using data analysis to infer a probability of some effect happening (e.g., there's a 60% chance a vaccine shot will prevent or cause something to happen). Statistical inference is used when it is not possible to apply direct, empirical observation (i.e., I can see it happen with my own eyes).

Studies based on statistical inferences can be built on shaky grounds caused by too few or too narrow a range of samples, improper identification and counting of events and bad modeling. It isn't all that hard to create a statistical model that tries to show just about anything you want and the average, non-mathematical person won't know the difference. Also, where there's some polarization of an issue (e.g., Is there really global warming? Is the vaccine cause dangerous? ) each side will have its studies, models and articles and often attempt to denigrate, disprove or otherwise invalidate the other's position, often claiming "junk science" . The two things that send my warning flag up the pole are, "The science is settled." and "It's junk science." Conclusions based on statistical inference are seldom settled and often junky to some degree. Finally, thinking that "scientific" studies are not influenced by money is naive.
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I agree. I took statistics for my biology course and it showed how most statistics are biased depending on who is doing them and why they are being done. Pharmaceutical companies finance their findings which are then approved by FDA in an effort to sell to the general public. With money, any favourable results can be obtained whether true or false. With the right amount of money, an official statistic can be done to produce the exact results wanted. Then with the right amount of money, the right advertising as well as the right people advertising, can certainly shift a majority of people in a ‘certain’ direction. This in itself can become somewhat cultish at times as people gobble it up.
 
Are there more details? Some people have suffered quite severe side-effects, others nothing at all. Is there a connection? How do they know this, when the vaccine is new but Alzheimers takes a while to develop?
 
Barthelow Classen is an American immunologist and anti-vaccinationist. He received his M.D. from the University of Maryland, Baltimore in 1988, his M.B.A. from Columbia University in 1992 and obtained his medical license in October 1997.
So, because he doesn't approved of some vaccines, we should then automatically throw aside the fact that he is an obviously well trained immunologist and might possibly have some valid points? That seems a might narrow minded to me.
 
digifoss said:
Anytime I see labels such "anti-" this or "anti-" that or terms like "conspiracy theorist" attached to someone's name like some of it is here, I question the authors creditability and I am automatically suspect of the authors true agenda in writing about that person.
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As you know, those are stereotyping labels thrown up, often as smokescreens or out of cognitive dissonance, when someone or something disagrees with their view, position or beliefs.
 
old medic said:
WHY???? don't you trust it to protect you?
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I do trust the vaccines, which is why I got them. However, there is still a 10% chance of getting infected, and I DON'T WANT to pass SARS-COV2 on to ANYONE ELSE.

I have friends who are severely immunocompromised. They are recovering from Stage 4 cancers - one from breast cancer, one from ovarian cancer. It would be extraordinarily callous of me to risk any chances of infecting them, when the vaccines cannot protect THEM*.

* People who are immunocompromised have little or no ability to generate ANY antibodies, no matter what the infectious danger is, and thus vaccines do not help them.
 
Lethe200 said:
I do trust the vaccines, which is why I got them. However, there is still a 10% chance of getting infected, and I DON'T WANT to pass SARS-COV2 on to ANYONE ELSE.

I have friends who are severely immunocompromised. They are recovering from Stage 4 cancers - one from breast cancer, one from ovarian cancer. It would be extraordinarily callous of me to risk any chances of infecting them, when the vaccines cannot protect THEM*.

* People who are immunocompromised have little or no ability to generate ANY antibodies, no matter what the infectious danger is, and thus vaccines do not help them.
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I have the same situation in my life. One friend had a double lung transplant last year, another has been fighting cancer for the past four years and is only 18 years old, and a third has had breast cancer and now ovarian cancer.

Also, one never knows what health battle the person behind you in the checkout lane may be fighting.
 
digifoss said:
Anytime I see labels such "anti-" this or "anti-" that or terms like "conspiracy theorist" attached to someone's name like some of it is here, I question the authors creditability and I am automatically suspect of the authors true agenda in writing about that person.
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Humans are just such contrary beings! You can take two people who are really nice and like each other, and go to one of them and say lots and lots of NICE things about the person they like, and just from contrary human nature that person is extremely likely to respond with some exceptions.

But I'm really surprised that so many responses are focused on who said what about who, instead of on the part of the quote that said no one has been able to reproduce this person's results, even with the same study data.

I feel like I quoted a statement who called a person a charlatan for claiming they created gold from iron because no one else had been able to create gold from iron and chemically it makes no sense. And then the responses here were all about not trusting someone who called another person a charlatan, rampart suspicion that someone wants to prevent you from creating gold, and totally overlooking any of the factual scientific part of the discussion.
 
I'm not a scientist, or medical professional....but when we saw the rising number if Covid cases over the past year, that was enough to get our full attention. When the vaccines started becoming available, it didn't take us long to figure out that the vaccines were a far better option than getting this virus. We don't have any pre-existing conditions that would increase the risk of side effects, so in February we got our first shot of the Moderna vaccine, then the 2nd in March. Outside of a minor pain in the arm for a day or two, we haven't noticed any changes. At least now, we can feel less apprehensive about visiting the kids, and going out in public. That, in itself, is a Big Plus.
 
Gaer said:
I wish this would have been posted prior to my stupidly getting the shot!
Getting the vaccine will go down as one of the stupidest things I've ever done.
Wo! That list is getting awfully long!
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And I only see the list getting longer and more scary as the truth comes out more and more related to.
 
MarciKS said:
You guys are also always saying that anything in the media can't be trusted but you trust all this stuff you plaster this site with in an effort to scare folks into not getting vaccinated. I didn't worry about all the media. I decided for myself that I was willing to risk it if it kept me from dying from this virus. All the news reports in the world wouldn't have changed that decision. But in one breath you guys get upset because you insult us we insult you and everyone is posting stuff they supposedly don't trust but they put it up anyway for all of us to read and bicker about I don't understand why? If your intention is to warn people who I'm sure see the same reports as everyone else...and you don't trust the media for anything...why post it?
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Talk is cheap, isn't it, but come the day you are stricken with the likes of ALS (heaven forbid), account having had the vaccine, my bet is you won't be so brash as to having made the right choice in getting the vaccine and outright ignoring reports and articles related to.
 
How many COVID deaths are there in the world to date?
How many recovered victims are suffering painful if not frightening side effects?
Dying is one thing but at least die easily with dignity and slowly choking to death over a period of a few days to a few months has no dignity.
Compare the numbers then you make your own calls. I am very glad I like millions and millions of others, am fully vaccinated.

PolitiFact | The coronavirus vaccine doesn’t cause Alzheimer’s, ALS
 
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I talked with my Doctor (GP) about getting the shots last Friday. I have some health issues that are are not pleasant to say the least. I asked him if I should be vaccinated, and will it increase the suffering I am experiencing. He said No, get the shots. So I made an appointment for this Saturday morning to get the first one (Pfizer). I have put this off for about a month because I don't want to feel worse NOW. I still don't know if I will go to the appointment. Maybe I should flip a coin. :unsure:
 
Aunt Marg said:
Talk is cheap, isn't it, but come the day you are stricken with the likes of ALS (heaven forbid), account having had the vaccine, my bet is you won't be so brash as to having made the right choice in getting the vaccine and outright ignoring reports and articles related to.
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This is what I think about too. In my family autoimmune diseases like ALS and MS run on both sides. It's a great risk for many, but I feel worse for someone like me with this family history. This is what so many don't consider when they "just want you to get vaccinated". We're people, not numbers. It matters way more for some than for others.
 
I just finished reading an article about how desperate the people in India are to get some medical help with the wave of Covid that is raging all over that country. There is a shortage of medical supplies, particularly oxygen, and even a shortage of beds. Many of the deaths have taken place right outside of the hospitals, as they didn't have room for any more patients. Desperately sick people and their families are running around from hospital to hospital, trying to find a bed and some medical treatment for their loved one. The article told about several people who heartbreakingly died of Covid, gasping for breath, when they could have been saved if there had only been enough oxygen. Most of those patients were young, or youngish, people; it showed one man in his 40's, posing with his three little children. He was a big, strapping-looking fellow. He died because his family could not find any oxygen for him, after paying a fortune for an oxygen tank to use at home.

They do have the vaccine, but are slow and disorganized about getting it distributed to people. And for the very sick people described in this article, the vaccine would have been too late anyway.

Maybe if people in this country heard more stories about the hardships in other parts of the world, there would be less nonsense being invented and spread around, to try to scare people away from the vaccine that we are fortunate enough to be able to get. Most of us don't realize how lucky we are!
 

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