The Inevitable Take Over Of Taiwan By China.

mellowyellow said:
This reminds me a bit of Vietnam, when they asked the US for help. And look what happened.
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History shows that the people of Indochina resisted the imperialistic French forces that were hellbent on perpetuating their colonization of that country since the middle 1800s. The only people who asked for "help" from the USA were the puppet regime installed by the imperialists. Funny how the USA joined the war in Europe to stop Nazi depredations in France and elsewhere but then it supported France in its invasion of Indochina and imposed Nazi style depredations on those people.

Neither France nor the USA had any business invading or colonizing Indochina nor did it ever have any right to imposed Nazi style depredations like they did. Supporting such imperialistic invasions in tantamount to supporting 20 or more attacks such as 9/11.
 
oldiebutgoody said:
History shows that the people of Indochina resisted the imperialistic French forces that were hellbent on perpetuating their colonization of that country since the middle 1800s. The only people who asked for "help" from the USA were the puppet regime installed by the imperialists. Funny how the USA joined the war in Europe to stop Nazi depredations in France and elsewhere but then it supported France in its invasion of Indochina and imposed Nazi style depredations on those people.

Neither France nor the USA had any business invading or colonizing Indochina nor did it ever have any right to imposed Nazi style depredations like they did. Supporting such imperialistic invasions in tantamount to supporting 20 or more attacks such as 9/11.
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Assuming you live in the US, I hope you realize how fortunate you are that you can openly complain about the government and military as vehemently as you feel it deserves, without applying for permission and without fear of imprisonment and/or torture and/or death.
Citizens of China, for example, and even their foreign visitors, do not enjoy that freedom.
 
Murrmurr said:
Assuming you live in the US, I hope you realize how fortunate you are that you can openly complain about the government and military as vehemently as you feel it deserves, without applying for permission and without fear of imprisonment and/or torture and/or death.
Citizens of China, for example, and even their foreign visitors, do not enjoy that freedom.
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In a democracy it is government by the people. Just in case you forgot, there is a Constitution whose birth was guaranteed by our Founding Fathers who voluntarily shed their blood to insure we would have such rights. In their time, they did not envision invading foreign countries. In fact they condemned standing armies and foreign interventionism. Nothing in the historical record would suggest that they would intervene in any way in Vietnam or Iraq. On the contrary they would agree with everything I wrote. Anyone who denies that doesn't know their history.
 
The Monroe doctrine: Don't call us it's a toll call, iow, do not invade the Western Hemisphere. He should be alive to set straight China.
 
ohioboy said:
The Monroe doctrine: Don't call us it's a toll call, iow, do not invade the Western Hemisphere. He should be alive to set straight China.
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Monroe Doctrine - largely drawn by John Quincy Adams and intended to keep foreigners out of our territory. Nothing in it to show our Founders approved of foreign invasion. By the way, it was endorsed by England.
 
oldiebutgoody said:
In a democracy it is government by the people. Just in case you forgot, there is a Constitution whose birth was guaranteed by our Founding Fathers who voluntarily shed their blood to insure we would have such rights. In their time, they did not envision invading foreign countries. In fact they condemned standing armies and foreign interventionism. Nothing in the historical record would suggest that they would intervene in any way in Vietnam or Iraq. On the contrary they would agree with everything I wrote. Anyone who denies that doesn't know their history.
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And yet, here we are. And it would probably be courteous to stick to the OP's topic.

A couple of points, though; I think it's fair to say our Forefathers could not have imagined strategies of aggression involving computer technology, international extortion, biological warfare, etc.

And according to Maritime Law, an attack on an American ship, whether merchant, cruise, or military, is the same as an attack on American soil. Just in case you forgot, that's what prompted the US to enter WWI and make changes in policy re:foreign wars and foreign affairs.

Anyway, after this, I'm going to be courteous to the OP.
 
^The USA was attacked in WW I + WWII thereby justifying retaliation. But this did not happen in Vietnam or Iraq so that the prolonged wars which generated multiple billions in war profits were not justified.
 
well I am debating whether to enter into this discussion or not...cause the facts are in error!
well okay here goes......wwi. the united states violated the nutrality agreements by sending military supplies to europe on a civilian ship..wwii and this is a biggie and I know will bring out a lot of backlash to me....first let me ask a question? why on earth would the president send the navy fleet from protecting the state of california and the west of america to a mere possesion thousands of miles away?...second question? why would hitler enlist the aid of the japanese to attack hawaii, what purpose would it serve japan thousands of miles away? and lastly I think this is all in the realm of politics and not allowed here but then yall brought up things posted above!!!!
 
cdestroyer said:
well I am debating whether to enter into this discussion or not...cause the facts are in error!
well okay here goes......wwi. the united states violated the nutrality agreements by sending military supplies to europe on a civilian ship..wwii and this is a biggie and I know will bring out a lot of backlash to me....first let me ask a question? why on earth would the president send the navy fleet from protecting the state of california and the west of america to a mere possesion thousands of miles away?...second question? why would hitler enlist the aid of the japanese to attack hawaii, what purpose would it serve japan thousands of miles away? and lastly I think this is all in the realm of politics and not allowed here but then yall brought up things posted above!!!!
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Facts *as we know them* are often in error.
 
I'm wondering what will happen when Taiwan asks for help from the US. The events of history will hopefully be foremost in his mind.
 
I guess it might come to a shooting sea battle between large fleets, china and the us and maybe a couple of the other countries in that region involved...could last a couple of years or be over in a flash!
 
cdestroyer said:
I guess it might come to a shooting sea battle between large fleets, china and the us and maybe a couple of the other countries in that region involved...could last a couple of years or be over in a flash!
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A HUGE flash, right?

But I honestly don't think it'll come to that. I think there'll be intense aggression from all sides (2, anyway) on a different front.
 
It think there is a sticking point. Taiwan was considered a part of China. Chinese Nationalists fled China to Taiwan, and claimed it for themselves. I I don't think it's naked aggression on the part of China to want its island back . They view Taiwan as a bastion of rebels, stealing their islands. I don't expect war, but humans have never been noted for their aversion to war. The diplomatic trick is to cede Taiwan to the Chinese, but not cede Taiwan to the Chinese.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
It think there is a sticking point. Taiwan was considered a part of China. Chinese Nationalists fled China to Taiwan, and claimed it for themselves. I I don't think it's naked aggression on the part of China to want its island back . They view Taiwan as a bastion of rebels, stealing their islands. I don't expect war, but humans have never been noted for their aversion to war. The diplomatic trick is to cede Taiwan to the Chinese, but not cede Taiwan to the Chinese.
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China considers Taiwan as China. The people of Taiwan consider themselves Chinese living in their own separate nation. Sadly, they've never been given that distinction officially, only in the eyes of a few country's governments, including the US gov't, and it's only an honorary distinction, basically.

Taiwan governs itself as a democracy. They have an elected government, a constitution, they have immigration laws and services, celebrate their own national holidays and so forth. The Chinese Nationalist Party leaders escaped from China to Taiwan to avoid their inevitable execution after the Chinese Communist Party brutally took over the country, and many thousand Chinese citizens escaped with them.

imo, Taiwan deserves to be recognized as a separate nation.
 
Murrmurr said:
China considers Taiwan as China. The people of Taiwan consider themselves Chinese living in their own separate nation. Sadly, they've never been given that distinction officially, only in the eyes of a few country's governments, including the US gov't, and it's only an honorary distinction, basically.

Taiwan governs itself as a democracy. They have an elected government, a constitution, they have immigration laws and services, celebrate their own national holidays and so forth. The Chinese Nationalist Party leaders escaped from China to Taiwan to avoid their inevitable execution after the Chinese Communist Party brutally took over the country, and many thousand Chinese citizens escaped with them.

imo, Taiwan deserves to be recognized as a separate nation.
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There was a time when Taiwan was considered by the world to be China; the Chinese seat on the U.N. Security Council was theirs. One never knows what the future will bring.
 
Something interesting that you might already know @fuzzybuddy ; The CCP brags all the time (especially to the citizens of China) about how they raised China out of poverty. Well, first of all, the CCP was the cause of their devastating poverty. They turned China into an agricultural nation, forcing successful businessmen/women, professors, doctors, etc, to become farmers, and then exporting more food than they kept to feed their own people. Tens of thousands starved to death or died of disease.

What actually raised people out of poverty was the CCP's "experiment" in capitalism.
 
Dancing_Queen said:
There was a time when Taiwan was considered by the world to be China; the Chinese seat on the U.N. Security Council was theirs. One never knows what the future will bring.
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It gets so confusing (for me, anyway). Mainland China is governed by the communist party of China, the CCP, and is recognized as the people's republic of China, the PRC, while Taiwan is known as the Republic of China, the ROC.

The Republic of China's (Taiwan's) most recent request for admission to the UN was turned down in 2007, but a number of European governments (led by the US) protested to the UN, asking that it's legal body stop using the phrase "Taiwan is a part of China".

It will be very interesting to see what the future will bring.
 
Murrmurr said:
It gets so confusing (for me, anyway). Mainland China is governed by the communist party of China, the CCP, and is recognized as the people's republic of China, the PRC, while Taiwan is known as the Republic of China, the ROC.

The Republic of China's (Taiwan's) most recent request for admission to the UN was turned down in 2007, but a number of European governments (led by the US) protested to the UN, asking that it's legal body stop using the phrase "Taiwan is a part of China".

It will be very interesting to see what the future will bring.
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So much in politics is constantly in flux. I could go on about this, but I'd be blocked.
 
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