Migrants in Texas: US 'to fly thousands back to Haiti'

Irwin said:
Yeah, we can implement communism! That will keep them out!
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LOL! Seriously I think there are ways to make this work.

First have a universal and easily used national identity card, the passport card might work. Don't allow anyone to work, go to school, fly, or do anything that requires ID without showing and scanning it. ID illegals that way quickly and easily. Credit card companies do something on this scale to avoid illegal charges, surely we could do it with the identity card. Maybe the card could replace driver's licenses, but all would need one.

I think we need to make it clear that people born in the US are not automatic citizens unless born to one or more legal US parents.

You could also make getting legal status as a temporary worker without a path to permanent residence or citizenship relatively easy, this right would be stripped from anyone found here illegally, permanently.

Only after getting something workable in place we could begin the more complex and difficult process of deciding which of the folks here illegally now could stay and which would be deported. I would be as humane as possible about it but keep our national interest in mind first.
Then going forward I would support only very limited legal migration, people who very clearly would add to our economy and perhaps non-citizen spouses, but no family beyond that. Maybe consider something for counties where US citizens go, allow for some kind of even exchange with places like the UK, Japan, and Australia. Not quite sure how that would work, but if it doesn't result in significant net migration it may make sense.

Anyway that's the framework, I know the devil would be in the details. I don't think it is drastically different from what some other countries do.
Irwin said:
If we continue on the path we're on, eventually the U.S. is going to be as bad as Mexico and Central America and the middle and upper classes here will flee to Europe.
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Is there a warm sunny English speaking country in Europe?
 

oldman said:
I was sitting here thinking about these flights and I came to the conclusion that I would NOT want to be the pilot of one of these disease carrying tubes. (Pilots sometimes describes an airplane as a tube.)
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Hope the pilots on this planes have all their shots and protection ... terrible situation
No one seems to mention the health of these people. Can't be good.


And I feel so sorry for all of our troops and border security, that are forced to put themselves in harm's way by dealing with the invasion.
 
Alligatorob said:
LOL! Seriously I think there are ways to make this work.

First have a universal and easily used national identity card, the passport card might work. Don't allow anyone to work, go to school, fly, or do anything that requires ID without showing and scanning it. ID illegals that way quickly and easily. Credit card companies do something on this scale to avoid illegal charges, surely we could do it with the identity card. Maybe the card could replace driver's licenses, but all would need one.

I think we need to make it clear that people born in the US are not automatic citizens unless born to one or more legal US parents.

You could also make getting legal status as a temporary worker without a path to permanent residence or citizenship relatively easy, this right would be stripped from anyone found here illegally, permanently.

Only after getting something workable in place we could begin the more complex and difficult process of deciding which of the folks here illegally now could stay and which would be deported. I would be as humane as possible about it but keep our national interest in mind first.
Then going forward I would support only very limited legal migration, people who very clearly would add to our economy and perhaps non-citizen spouses, but no family beyond that. Maybe consider something for counties where US citizens go, allow for some kind of even exchange with places like the UK, Japan, and Australia. Not quite sure how that would work, but if it doesn't result in significant net migration it may make sense.

Anyway that's the framework, I know the devil would be in the details. I don't think it is drastically different from what some other countries do.

Is there a warm sunny English speaking country in Europe?
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People in major cities throughout Europe speak English so they can engage in commerce with Americans. In the smaller cities, probably not so much unless they make money from tourism.

As far as denying people born in the U.S. citizenship, that would require a change to our Constitution — specifically, the 14th Amendment which states:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside".​

Perhaps a more viable option is sentry weapons. Instead of a fence, we could line the border with sentry guns and just have they shoot anyone trying to get in. There may be some people who would claim that to be cruel and inhuman, so we'd need to weight the pros and cons of such a measure. (Note: I'm kidding.)

Or, we could overthrow right-wing dictators and install left-wing leaders, and then provide assistance to go after the drug cartels. After all, for the past 100 or so years we've done just the opposite. We've removed left-wing, democratically elected leaders and installed brutal, right-wing dictators, and we've been paying the price ever since, and that's part of the reason for the current migrant problems from Central America and the Middle East. We destroyed their countries and now they're coming here.

Cuba had a right-wing dictator in Batista, who was overthrown by Castro. The U.S. tried to oust Castro, which caused him to align with the Soviet Union. We destroyed Cuba's economy by imposing crippling sanctions and embargos, which caused them to align even more closely with the Soviets.

Perhaps we need to do just the opposite and overthrow right-wing dictators. Just a thought.
 

HarryHawk said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/02/us/politics/biden-immigration-executive-orders-trump.html

As a candidate, Mr. Biden vowed to once again welcome immigrants to American shores by quickly rolling back hundreds of actions by President Donald J. Trump that were aimed at deporting immigrants and shutting the country off from those seeking work or refuge.

At least to me, this doesn't look too welcoming

View attachment 184579
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"Welcoming immigrants" is nowhere near "open borders."
 
Irwin said:
As far as denying people born in the U.S. citizenship, that would require a change to our Constitution — specifically, the 14th Amendment which states:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside".
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I think you are probably right. However there are those who believe the "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" could be interpreted to exclude people born to non-US parents. I am skeptical though, I think you are right probably would take an amendment.
 
CarolfromTX said:
You who are not in border states know nothing of what we have to deal with. Our school systems are expected to absorb and teach children who speak no English, feed them breakfast and lunch at no cost to the family, and still educate our own citizens. And take care of homeless, vets, disabled Americans, and a hundred other worthy causes. Sure, let’s make conditions better where they live. Any money the US sends is siphoned off by corrupt politicians. I don’t know what the answer is, but I sure as hell know that the quality of life in this country is being pulled down.
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Agree strongly here.
 
Alligatorob said:
I am not sure that is true, I have heard others say it but can find no evidence that Biden promised to implement an open board policy. He did promise many changes, some of which would allow more migrant entry, but I can't find anything nearly so broad as a promise of open borders. Can you point out something supporting this claim? See: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...to-change-immigration-heres-how-idUSKBN29K1X1

Not saying I like or agree with all that was promised or has been done, I don't. Just trying to understand the truth of the story.
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I think it depends upon which group of people we are talking about. Yes, many flights are taking place to send Haitians back to Haiti BUT, Mexicans are flooding over the border like a tsunami.
 
senior chef said:
I think it depends upon which group of people we are talking about. Yes, many flights are taking place to send Haitians back to Haiti BUT, Mexicans are flooding over the border like a tsunami.
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Mexicans have been coming over the border forever .... They know where and how to cross back and forth from years of experience.

I've known some personally that work in Texas, and go back home to Mexico whenever they chose. If they get stopped at one point, they take another route. It's been going on for years. They don't have to "flood the border".
 
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Irwin said:
I don't know what can be done, but here's a song from the '70s about Haitian refugees.
Irwin said:
People in major cities throughout Europe speak English so they can engage in commerce with Americans. In the smaller cities, probably not so much unless they make money from tourism.

As far as denying people born in the U.S. citizenship, that would require a change to our Constitution — specifically, the 14th Amendment which states:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside".​

Perhaps a more viable option is sentry weapons. Instead of a fence, we could line the border with sentry guns and just have they shoot anyone trying to get in. There may be some people who would claim that to be cruel and inhuman, so we'd need to weight the pros and cons of such a measure. (Note: I'm kidding.)

Or, we could overthrow right-wing dictators and install left-wing leaders, and then provide assistance to go after the drug cartels. After all, for the past 100 or so years we've done just the opposite. We've removed left-wing, democratically elected leaders and installed brutal, right-wing dictators, and we've been paying the price ever since, and that's part of the reason for the current migrant problems from Central America and the Middle East. We destroyed their countries and now they're coming here.

Cuba had a right-wing dictator in Batista, who was overthrown by Castro. The U.S. tried to oust Castro, which caused him to align with the Soviet Union. We destroyed Cuba's economy by imposing crippling sanctions and embargos, which caused them to align even more closely with the Soviets.

Perhaps we need to do just the opposite and overthrow right-wing dictators. Just a thought.
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The song you cite is about people from Puerto Rico, by the way, although "Haitian Divorce" is on the same album.
 
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Irwin said:
I don't know what can be done, but here's a song from the '70s about Haitian refugees.
Irwin said:
People in major cities throughout Europe speak English so they can engage in commerce with Americans. In the smaller cities, probably not so much unless they make money from tourism.

As far as denying people born in the U.S. citizenship, that would require a change to our Constitution — specifically, the 14th Amendment which states:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside".​

Perhaps a more viable option is sentry weapons. Instead of a fence, we could line the border with sentry guns and just have they shoot anyone trying to get in. There may be some people who would claim that to be cruel and inhuman, so we'd need to weight the pros and cons of such a measure. (Note: I'm kidding.)

Or, we could overthrow right-wing dictators and install left-wing leaders, and then provide assistance to go after the drug cartels. After all, for the past 100 or so years we've done just the opposite. We've removed left-wing, democratically elected leaders and installed brutal, right-wing dictators, and we've been paying the price ever since, and that's part of the reason for the current migrant problems from Central America and the Middle East. We destroyed their countries and now they're coming here.

Cuba had a right-wing dictator in Batista, who was overthrown by Castro. The U.S. tried to oust Castro, which caused him to align with the Soviet Union. We destroyed Cuba's economy by imposing crippling sanctions and embargos, which caused them to align even more closely with the Soviets.

Perhaps we need to do just the opposite and overthrow right-wing dictators. Just a thought.
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And replace them with left-wing dictators like Castro? No thanks.
 
Alligatorob said:
I think you are probably right. However there are those who believe the "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" could be interpreted to exclude people born to non-US parents. I am skeptical though, I think you are right probably would take an amendment.
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The Amendment didn't envision circumstances through which, for example, Chinese parents would arrange to have children born in the US as a hedge against future instability in China. Or that Hispanic immigrants would conceive "anchor babies" as a foundation for their efforts to relocate here. These practices are antithetical to the concept of citizenship.
 
fmdog44 said:
How many have Covid? How many have fake vaccination cards?. Send them all back.
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All I say is, apply the same principle across the board. If you are going to repel one group, then do the same for all others. We as a society claim we don't discriminate and that would be a good way to prove it.
 
We have laws and procedures by which to enter the country legally.

Anyone coming into the country without doing so legally should get a free flight back to their country of origin.
 
AnnieA said:
We have laws and procedures by which to enter the country legally.

Anyone coming into the country without doing so legally should get a free flight back to their country of origin.
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Yes, I agree. There are numerous flights deep into Mexico and also Central and South American countries. Occasionally those countries do not want their citizens back and they sometimes give the USA a hard time.
 
oldiebutgoody said:
All I say is, apply the same principle across the board. If you are going to repel one group, then do the same for all others. We as a society claim we don't discriminate and that would be a good way to prove it.
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If society in the U.S. claimed it didn't discriminate, it would be lying. There's all sorts of discrimination in today's society — some blatant, some subtle, but it exists and it's widespread.
 
senior chef said:
Occasionally those countries do not want their citizens back and they sometimes give the USA a hard time.
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When I started working in dialysis in the late 90s, cost per year was $60,000 per patient, most of which was covered by Medicare since dialysis patients automatically qualify for SS disability and Medicare after three months on dialysis. No telling how much the yearly cost is now.

In one unit I covered, we had an Ecuadorian criminal who wasn't allowed back even if he had wanted to go but obviously he didn't. The dialysis company ate the cost of his treatment because he had never paid into SS or Medicare. To add the cherry on top, he was non-compliant with the treatment regimen so was hospitalized frequently; the hospitals ate the cost of his medical care then.
 
Goggle tells me the bulk of the Haitians made their way from Central America to Mexico.
Did they walk the length of Mexico?

The deplorable videos do not help decision making.
Were a nation of law:sneaky:, when it suits us, now were vacillating.
Were does sympathy end and national interest become mandatory-ask the ranchers around Del Rio,
 
jerry old said:
Goggle tells me the bulk of the Haitians made their way from Central America to Mexico.
Did they walk the length of Mexico?

The deplorable videos do not help decision making.
Were a nation of law:sneaky:, when it suits us, now were vacillating.
Were does sympathy end and national interest become mandatory-ask the ranchers around Del Rio,
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On their way to the USA.
R.jpg
 
Irwin said:
If society in the U.S. claimed it didn't discriminate, it would be lying
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Immigration should be different, we need to discriminate in ways we don't otherwise. I would be against discrimination based on race, religion, etc. However I believe we should only allow people in who will contribute positively to our economy, with a preference for well educated or high tech folks who will give us needed skills. Or entrepreneurs bringing in successful businesses, or just people with lots of money who will bring it in. I would also discriminate in favor of young healthy people.

Even then I don't think we should let many people in at all. We don't need more people here, we have enough, so we can afford to be selective, to discriminate.
 
Bonnie said:
It shouldn't be Texas' problem to deal with alone...

They are coming from several different countries, and at different locations along the Texas border.
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Do realize that Texas has a vast border, but it would make more sense for Mexico (doesn't want back those attempting to enter the US illegally) to direct them to California and New Mexico border crossings where they'll have protection against deportation. From there they can migrate up the west coast and into Colorado where they'll have protection as well.
 

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