How Can We Stop Killing

Paco Dennis said:
@JimBob1952 True, and statistics never lie. But, there are many contributing factors to the decrease in murders. They involve factors of laws, mobility, gentrification, private for profit prisons, and the list could go on and on. 16,000 murders is OK? No it is not, and a culture that thinks it is just something else we have to fear all the time, like crossing the street, needs to think again.
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Of course it's not OK. It's outrageous. But it has nothing to do with overpopulation, or private prisons, or gentrification.
 

Private prisons handle about 8% of the federal and state prison population. That percentage has been declining. And private prisons usually handle facilities like halfway houses or immigration centers. Not sure what that has to do with murder rates.
 
rgp said:
I had a friend [now deceased] that had quite a collection of guns. All types/periods in history,etc. He just greatly admired the the mechanical design/engineering in them. He never shot an animal, and had no desire to ever shoot a human. His thing was target shooting with the various guns, and honing his skill at it.

BTW .... He was a hell-of-a-shot. I've seen him hit AAA batteries from ridiculous distances.

Point being, there are all sorts of reasons folks collect guns.
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Point being, not all of the reasons are good.
 
rgp said:
OK, that's one .... and i do remember it.

Show me where I said they never make mistakes.

That officer was an idiot ....IMO.
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No, not an idiot.

He was afraid of being shot by an armed civilian. There way too many guns in civilian hands, even in the hands of white middle aged women. Every time the police respond to a call, or answer a DV report, they don't know what they are going to meet when they arrive. No wonder they become trigger happy.
 
I guess if street drugs don't kill them prescribed drugs will in the USA and France from what I can see.
Here inFrance the highest killings are wives and husbands or cohab partners murdering each other, usually motivated by infidelity. There is more knife crime here than guns. In our nearest town square there are two knife shops, window display full of them and these aren't kitchen knives, any of them. Who needs TWO killing knife shops on one block?

Knives or guns, if the nutters gonna kill, they do!
 
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The worst situation we have over here is domestic violence and women being murdered at the hands of current or past partners. The weapon is not the issue. Often they are bludgeoned to death. The rate is fairly consistent, averaging one or more per week each year. This year the count is 41 dead women by December 06.

Details of each death can be accessed here Counting Dead Women Australia | Facebook

Here are some examples -

November 30: At about 5pm on Saturday November 27th police were called to an apartment in Southport, Queensland, after reports of a disturbance. Mary Benedito (25) was found unresponsive inside the apartment and was transported to ICU with critical injuries. Her 11-month-old son was found to be missing. On Sunday Reo Te Whetu Marama Marsh (34), ex-partner of Ms Benedito and father of the abducted child, was arrested and ‘associates’ of Marsh handed the child over to authorities, physically unharmed. On Monday Marsh was charged with one count of grievous bodily harm and one of strangulation, and was remanded in custody. Overnight, on November 30th, Ms Benedito died in hospital despite best efforts of staff. Police have today upgraded Marsh's charge to murder. https://tinyurl.com/47a3vpcb QLD

November 17: At about 1.50pm police were called to a home in Deniliquin. There they found a 42-year-old woman, as yet unnamed, who had sustained significant head injuries before allegedly being set on fire. Police and emergency responders attempted to extinguish the fire and to render treatment. Despite all efforts the woman died at the scene. Her brother (31) was arrested in the front yard of the home, charged with murder (DV) and remanded in custody. No further information is available at present. https://tinyurl.com/56439vbh NSW

July 28: On Monday July 26 Cherry Gerente Ogar (37) was treated by paramedics for life threatening head injuries at her home in Port Hughes, and transferred to the Wallaroo Hospital. Police were called at this time and arrested her husband, Antony Ogar (58), charging him with assault causing serious harm, Ms Cerente Ogar’s daughter giving evidence of daily assaults against her mother. Ms Cerente Ogar was transferred to the Royal Adelaide Hospital, where she died of her injuries two days later. Mr Ogar’s charge is now expected to be upgraded to murder. Nothing further is known at present. https://tinyurl.com/vvyr7ebu SA
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Is anyone counting dead women in US to see how many of them are killed by members of their household using legal weapons?
 
How do we stop killing? I was going to say it starts at home, teach the children right. But that is not so easy these days when parents buy their 15 year old a gun for Christmas (as in the recent school shooting).

So now I feel we have to start with the parents make them responsible for the actions of their children, a tall order, but anything is better than doing nothing.-
 
Warrigal said:
No, not an idiot.

He was afraid of being shot by an armed civilian. There way too many guns in civilian hands, even in the hands of white middle aged women. Every time the police respond to a call, or answer a DV report, they don't know what they are going to meet when they arrive. No wonder they become trigger happy.
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Sorry ...... He was an idiot.

"There way too many guns in civilian hands,"

You run your railroad & we'll run ours.

The best defence against a bad person with a gun .......... is a good person with a gun. If we confiscated guns from the only people that might comply , the only people left with guns .... will be the bad people.
 
Actually your statistic is dated and history shows varies yearly and is flawed to some extent due to the way crime statistics were poorly or differently processed during early decades in many states. Stats show 21,570 homicides last year. In any case, it is true rates in the USA have not increased merely due to population increases but then my statement was not meant to reflect that and is more a worldwide behavioral statement.

There are many factors affecting crime including murder rates, for instance rate's rise during economic downturns and social unrest, and falls during better times as the USA graph on this link shows. The influence of telecommunication media especially the Internet has had a far greater influence on awareness of all manner of ethical and moral issues. Murders today become national news that will tend to reduce bad behaviors whereas decades ago media might have only taken notice if it was in our largest cities. Today such becomes a self accelerating phenomenon on social media.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...ow-about-the-increase-in-u-s-murders-in-2020/
 
David777 said:
Actually your statistic is dated and history shows varies yearly and is flawed to some extent due to the way crime statistics were poorly or differently processed during early decades in many states. Stats show 21,570 homicides last year. In any case, it is true rates in the USA have not increased merely due to population increases but then my statement was not meant to reflect that and is more a worldwide behavioral statement.

There are many factors affecting crime including murder rates, for instance rate's rise during economic downturns and social unrest, and falls during better times as the USA graph on this link shows. The influence of telecommunication media especially the Internet has had a far greater influence on awareness of all manner of ethical and moral issues. Murders today become national news that will tend to reduce bad behaviors whereas decades ago media might have only taken notice if it was in our largest cities. Today such becomes a self accelerating phenomenon on social media.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...ow-about-the-increase-in-u-s-murders-in-2020/
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Yes, 2020 was a weird year because of the pandemic and the George Floyd riots. I'm still not sure what your point is. Overpopulation is a problem for poor countries, largely because people with insecure incomes and no wealth need lots of children to support them as they get older. As countries get richer their birth rates drop. In the US, Japan, and Western Europe, birth rates are below replacement levels, resulting in an aging (and less crime prone) population.
 
If there had been retired police or military carrying AR-14 with several 30 round clips in Nordstrom store Then lock the doors had a safe cubby hole for cashiers to get in under their registers. Then hunt down the thieves. A few of these actions would stop this kind of Grab & run.

There have been many reports on our local news where a man/woman with concealed weapon & CCP was in a store that was getting robbed. They shot the robbers, so they could not rob anyone or place again. The police said thank you as we can't be everywhere. These people are never prosecuted.
 
mellowyellow said:
View attachment 197629
US congressman Thomas Harold Massie has faced a barrage of criticism after he posted a Christmas photograph of his family posing with military-style rifles, just days after a deadly school shooting.

Thomas Harold Massie is an American Republican Party politician.
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So, if Dad goes ballistic and starts beating up Mom, the kids can drop him in his tracks?
 
This seems to be getting off topic a little. Guns are only one means to an end. Good or bad depending on how you look at it. According to Peter Suciu of 19fortyfive.com (4/11/21) there are an estimated 470,000,000 guns in America and that number is growing as we speak. If we are trying to decrease or end killing we should be addressing the mental health issues we have facing us here in U.S. This would probably yield better results than the daunting task of trying to limit or remove every gun from the multitude of gun owners in this country whom the majority of are people who respect and abide by the law.

We have good and effective gun laws on the books now they just need to be enforced properly. More bureaucracy and laws will not stop people from killing each other. Addressing mental health issues covers much more ground than trying to eradicate the multitude of tools used by people to kill one another. Something as simple as words can be a tool for killing. I am not trying to change anyone's mind . I am just offering another way to look at it. Take it or leave it...:)
 
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Warrigal said:
The worst situation we have over here is domestic violence and women being murdered at the hands of current or past partners. The weapon is not the issue. Often they are bludgeoned to death. The rate is fairly consistent, averaging one or more per week each year. This year the count is 41 dead women by December 06.

Details of each death can be accessed here Counting Dead Women Australia | Facebook

Here are some examples -


Is anyone counting dead women in US to see how many of them are killed by members of their household using legal weapons?
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Spot on. My partner works at a non-profit organization that exists to assist victims of domestic violence. It has always been an issue in the US but became worse during the Covid lockdowns. Very often, they don't want to leave due to the children involved. It is horrible.
 
oldpop said:
This seems to be getting off topic a little. Guns are only one means to an end. Good or bad depending on how you look at it. According to Peter Suciu of 19fortyfive.com (4/11/21) there are an estimated 470,000,000 guns in America and that number is growing as we speak. If we are trying to decrease or end killing we should be addressing the mental health issues we have facing us here in U.S. This would probably yield better results than the daunting task of trying to limit or remove every gun from the multitude of gun owners in this country whom the majority of are people who respect and abide by the law.

We have good and effective gun laws on the books now they just need to be enforced properly. More bureaucracy and laws will not stop people from killing each other. Addressing mental health issues covers much more ground than trying to eradicate the multitude of tools used by people to kill one another. Something as simple as words can be a tool for killing. I am not trying to change anyone's mind . I am just offering another way to look at it. Take it or leave it... :)
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Also get rid of street drugs and stop over medicating with pharmeceutical drug perscriptions.
 
old medic said:
Well God killed everything but pairs and one family to rid the world of Evil.... That had to include alot of INNOCENT children.
Guess hes the original Re-Booter...
Islam basically tells you to KILL any non believers that dont convert...
Look at what good Christians did to the Natives here in the Americas...
The Human animal is a civilized top of the chain predator, some more civilized and compassionate than others.
I Try to be one of those... But I would not hesitate to respond with extreme violent's to protect me and my own.
Do agree there are to many incidents of Police being over aggressive in their response to a situation, But they HAVE TO...
You have a split second to make a choice on your response, As I do in my job... and a life hangs in the balance..
My job. its the patient, with a cop its you that may not go home.
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