Ghislaine Maxwell found guilty of supplying girls for financier Jeffrey Epstein

rgp said:
"And I wonder how much of what is happening now is wanting revenge on rich people?"

I know several folks that are extremely hatefull concerning the wealthy.

Some of them think I'm "rollin-in-it" [I'm not] because I am single and they think I have it so much beeter than they do ......... [I don't know, nor care] how we compare.

A woman I know works data entry for a bank. One of her bosses retired ........ she actually believes his retirement package was too much ........ and should have been divvied up among the employees shuch as herself.

She said, that's too much, he has too much........ I said well ....... somewhere tonight there is a guy going to sleep in a cardboard box under a bridge ......... who thinks you have too much. How much are you willing to give back ?? ..........No answer.
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That has also become an international concern. We are challenged to re-evaluate our values and what is moral and possible how to a more just social/economic order?
 
Vida May said:
That has also become an international concern. We are challenged to re-evaluate our values and what is moral and possible how to a more just social/economic order?
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No....the rise and fall of powerful people has been a running theme for thousands of years. We humans take delight in seeing someone rise and then come down with a crash. Shakespeare highlighted this in many a play; Herodotus had fun with it too; Samuel refers to the mighty falling (Saul & kin) in OT. Saul earned bad luck by not welcoming David. This theme as common as the written word.
 
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Were these girls on any kind of payroll even if a known lie? What are 15 years doing signing any kind of contract even if on paper supposedly on staff as servers or dishwashers. Aren't there minimum ages in some states to sign or make a contract?
 
WhatInThe said:
Were these girls on any kind of payroll even if a known lie? What are 15 years doing signing any kind of contract even if on paper supposedly on staff as servers or dishwashers. Aren't there minimum ages in some states to sign or make a contract?
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A minor can't be held to a contract they signed themselves, or to an agreement verbally made by themselves.
 
WhatInThe said:
Were these girls on any kind of payroll even if a known lie? What are 15 years doing signing any kind of contract even if on paper supposedly on staff as servers or dishwashers. Aren't there minimum ages in some states to sign or make a contract?
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While Employment can be referred to as a contract between parties, unless the law requires parental permission under a certain age, it is simply employment, employment is offered, and it is accepted, (offer and acceptance).
 
Pepper said:
A minor can't be held to a contract they signed themselves, or to an agreement verbally made by themselves.
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exactly....... which is why i ask again where were parents or guardians ?

parents had to be aware of something even if they bought the weak modeling career thing.....
who else does not know where their 15 yr old is for long weekends in other states or on a private island........
Some of these "victims" recruited friends or others when will their trial be held?
 
The minor isn't seen as being an accomplice in their own misdeeds as the legality says they can't know any better; the adult in the situation should know better and is taking advantage. Civil, not criminal law.
 
There are many very young teens who consider themselves very grown up. They could easily be recruited by the likes of Maxwell & Epstein.

Listening to podcasts with some well-known celebrities, I’m shocked by the early age they became adventurous. I won’t use the word promiscuous because that should apply to the young men too.
 
I was so pleased when she was found guilty, I thought her friends in high places could have wangled her a ‘not guilty’ verdict. It’s doubtful she will get serious jail time but we can live in hope. She only came to America to escape the shame of her crooked father who after racking up huge debts, robbed the pension fund of one of his businesses. There were conspiracy theories about how he died, was it an accident or was he murdered.
 
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Jules said:
There are many very young teens who consider themselves very grown up. They could easily be recruited by the likes of Maxwell & Epstein.

Listening to podcasts with some well-known celebrities, I’m shocked by the early age they became adventurous. I won’t use the word promiscuous because that should apply to the young men too.
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it is common i think in hollywood for even child actors/ actress to learn what the casting couch is.

A well known former child actor went public during the Harvey Weinstein trial about this has happened to males too.... but it did not seem to go far on who did what to the males....
 
Jeni said:
it is common i think in hollywood for even child actors/ actress to learn what the casting couch is.

A well known former child actor went public during the Harvey Weinstein trial about this has happened to males too.... but it did not seem to go far on who did what to the males....
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I asked my Mother one time ...... why she quit singing when she did. Her 'hay-day' was mid-30's till about the start of the war. She stumbled over the casting couch explanation .... I was young @ the time. Later, when i was a young man the subject came up again, and she explained it again ...... and said 'in-a-nut-shell' she refused to go that route.

She said that many that did 'play-along' were hired by the better known orchestras & appeared at the better venues.

Point being ........ that sort of thing goes way back ......... and according to my mother ........ they weren't shy about expecting it.

Shame really ........ a persons talent / ability should be enough to carry them. But maybe that is being just too naive
 
Vida May said:
I think their ages are only a legal technicality. Back in the day it was said good girls didn't do it and bad girls did. The girls were old enough to understand that concept and they chose to do it.
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Back in the day, girls were labelled "good" or "bad" and boys were boys and rarely held accountable.

The girls concerned were all under 18 years old and appeared to be without the protection of appropriately concerned parents. The modus operandi seems to have been to entrap teenage girls into a seemingly glamorous lifestyle. We are not in a position to judge whether any of the girls were old enough or smart enough to understand much less choose to be sexually exploited and in some cases trafficked to other countries by rich, powerful people.

I am grateful that the law at least recognises that it is the predator and not the victim who should rightly be held accountable, regardless of who they are and what status or power they currently enjoy.
 
Some of the girls were groomed from the age of 14.

As a former teacher of girls that age, I can say with confidence that their capacity for making good choices is quite underdeveloped. My own daughter had a tendency to decide in the moment without much regard to the consequences.

Any woman (or man) who scouts around for vulnerable teenagers to groom and then serves them up on a massage table to middle aged men is not a victim. She (he) is an enabler and an accomplice to crime.
 
I hope this woman gets what she deserves. She took young, vulnerable girls, girls who obviously came from broken homes. She chose carefully. She waited for them like a vulture. She shamed them for life. Regardless of their ages, she is a monster.

One would imagine a woman would have motherly instincts but instead, she had the instincts of a harpy. I hope her sentence and this case, serves as a precedent to all the brothel madames who entice young destitute girls to be their slaves.
.
 
Trish said:
Back in the day, girls were labelled "good" or "bad" and boys were boys and rarely held accountable.

The girls concerned were all under 18 years old and appeared to be without the protection of appropriately concerned parents. The modus operandi seems to have been to entrap teenage girls into a seemingly glamorous lifestyle. We are not in a position to judge whether any of the girls were old enough or smart enough to understand much less choose to be sexually exploited and in some cases trafficked to other countries by rich, powerful people.

I am grateful that the law at least recognises that it is the predator and not the victim who should rightly be held accountable, regardless of who they are and what status or power they currently enjoy.
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I am thinking this is not a safe subject to talk about. I am afraid if I continue to do so, I will make enemies and it might even be too late for me to prevent the problem.

What really hurt Mae West is people began doing pageants with young girls dressed up like Mae West and acting like her. May west lost her contract with one of the production companies and things were so bad the people concerned with protecting children from her bad influence began attacking the Jews in the industry who did not have the same bias against sexuality.

I do not know how anyone thinks the girls were hurt? When it comes to exploiting people, our industry has a history of exploiting people. People had to unionize to get safer working conditions and better wages. The history of the coal miners fighting for decent lives is really sad and a coal company was willing to kill the coal miners before increasing their wages.

The girls were willing and they got the benefits of money, and if they were living in poverty that would be about much more than money. It is also about self-confidence and being cultured. I hope people don't hate me because I have a different point of view but I can see how Ghislaine Maxwell thought she was doing something good by bringing girls into her world. A way of life she wanted.

And I was not taking this side of the argument before seeing the Mae West show and seeing film clips parading around like Mae West. I was horrified, by her influence on young girls but it happens all the time- parents dress their little girls up like adults and put them in pageants not as little girls but as sexy adults. I can see both sides.
 
ohioboy said:
Last Oct. there was a Major trafficking bust of over 200 people in NE Ohio, real quality mug shots, upstanding citzens, NOT.

https://www.cleveland19.com/2021/10...ng-including-arrests-portage-summit-counties/
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I think that is different from the case we are discussing? There is a level of sex trafficking that clearly victimizes females. Just as there is a difference between low wages and slavery. I don't think Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell saw themselves as lowly sex traffickers with no human morals. They probably thought they were benefactors in the case being discussed. If we do not think young people should engage in sex, what is the wrong?

It seems obvious the mug shots are men without much to offer and the potential to force women to do something they don't want to do with no concern for the women. I think that is different and I hate what I have read about that kind of sex trafficking.
 
Warrigal said:
Some of the girls were groomed from the age of 14.

As a former teacher of girls that age, I can say with confidence that their capacity for making good choices is quite underdeveloped. My own daughter had a tendency to decide in the moment without much regard to the consequences.

Any woman (or man) who scouts around for vulnerable teenagers to groom and then serves them up on a massage table to middle aged men is not a victim. She (he) is an enabler and an accomplice to crime.
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Nicely said, "a tendency to decide in the moment without much regard to the consequences". I would not want my daughter to be one of those girls, but as someone said earlier, where were the parents?! What is the harm if no one is aware of the harm? Does it appear the girl's parents were consenting? Or were the girls were very rebellious?
 
rgp said:
I asked my Mother one time ...... why she quit singing when she did. Her 'hay-day' was mid-30's till about the start of the war. She stumbled over the casting couch explanation .... I was young @ the time. Later, when i was a young man the subject came up again, and she explained it again ...... and said 'in-a-nut-shell' she refused to go that route.

She said that many that did 'play-along' were hired by the better known orchestras & appeared at the better venues.

Point being ........ that sort of thing goes way back ......... and according to my mother ........ they weren't shy about expecting it.

Shame really ........ a persons talent / ability should be enough to carry them. But maybe that is being just too naive
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My mother too. She sang for USO shows. When my parents divorced my mother moved my sister and me to Hollywood, California. She had high hopes, but was not willing to do the casting couch. Until the day she died she want to be on the stage or in the movies because she loved making people happy by entertaining like Bob Hope and his peers. I really like the changes that better protect women.
 
Vida May said:
I am thinking this is not a safe subject to talk about. I am afraid if I continue to do so, I will make enemies and it might even be too late for me to prevent the problem.

What really hurt Mae West is people began doing pageants with young girls dressed up like Mae West and acting like her. May west lost her contract with one of the production companies and things were so bad the people concerned with protecting children from her bad influence began attacking the Jews in the industry who did not have the same bias against sexuality.

I do not know how anyone thinks the girls were hurt? When it comes to exploiting people, our industry has a history of exploiting people. People had to unionize to get safer working conditions and better wages. The history of the coal miners fighting for decent lives is really sad and a coal company was willing to kill the coal miners before increasing their wages.

The girls were willing and they got the benefits of money, and if they were living in poverty that would be about much more than money. It is also about self-confidence and being cultured. I hope people don't hate me because I have a different point of view but I can see how Ghislaine Maxwell thought she was doing something good by bringing girls into her world. A way of life she wanted.

And I was not taking this side of the argument before seeing the Mae West show and seeing film clips parading around like Mae West. I was horrified, by her influence on young girls but it happens all the time- parents dress their little girls up like adults and put them in pageants not as little girls but as sexy adults. I can see both sides.
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I was not and will never hold anyone's opinion against them, no matter how much I may disagree. Our individual lives and experience shape our view of the world and, I believe, we would be a lot poorer for it if anyone were to feel that they could not give their honest view. When you think about it, a conversation would get pretty boring very quickly if everyone had the same opinion.

I do not believe for one minute that Maxwell ever had any good will towards the girls she helped recruit and, it is alleged, herself assaulted but, that is my belief and you are of course entitled to yours and I hope you will continue to be true to yourself. :)
 
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Vida May said:
Nicely said, "a tendency to decide in the moment without much regard to the consequences". I would not want my daughter to be one of those girls, but as someone said earlier, where were the parents?! What is the harm if no one is aware of the harm? Does it appear the girl's parents were consenting? Or were the girls were very rebellious?
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Not sure where all these folks took the girls...... but seemed too easy to have a private island and plane ....
if you were leaving the country on a commercial flight or real country that would require PASSPORT......

We do not have all the info but perhaps if girls are from poor families ........the parents might have consented to travel etc.
The red flags in this whole situation are obvious.... but the details matter and we do not have those.

As for harm ... yes many women regret/ feel awful/ have mental issues about any encounter like this .....
maybe they resort to alcohol/ pills to forget...
I just think many would have a better closure if not waiting close to 20 yrs to get it.

Same goes for people going after celebrities for alleged events 15-20 yrs ago.......maybe is is going after rich/ famous this does not happen to an average Joe .... without more proof then she said / he said

Maybe with 20/20 hindsight the amount they were paid was not good enough.......was simply not enough to be groped etc by older weird guys...

How many who did casting couch but did NOT get part ....feel disgusted and mad/ betrayed by what happened..... yet so many do not say anything until they jump on bandwagon or person is dead

Some say no thanks and walk away perhaps not working in field again.... maybe some regret that....

I have NOT walked in those shoes ........maybe i would see differently if I had lived through that.
but life does not have a Do-Over button.

In court to prosecute on a theory it is all the defendants issue ......
 
Jeni said:
Not sure where all these folks took the girls...... but seemed too easy to have a private island and plane ....
if you were leaving the country on a commercial flight or real country that would require PASSPORT......

We do not have all the info but perhaps if girls are from poor families ........the parents might have consented to travel etc.
The red flags in this whole situation are obvious.... but the details matter and we do not have those.

As for harm ... yes many women regret/ feel awful/ have mental issues about any encounter like this .....
maybe they resort to alcohol/ pills to forget...
I just think many would have a better closure if not waiting close to 20 yrs to get it.

Same goes for people going after celebrities for alleged events 15-20 yrs ago.......maybe is is going after rich/ famous this does not happen to an average Joe .... without more proof then she said / he said

Maybe with 20/20 hindsight the amount they were paid was not good enough.......was simply not enough to be groped etc by older weird guys...

How many who did casting couch but did NOT get part ....feel disgusted and mad/ betrayed by what happened..... yet so many do not say anything until they jump on bandwagon or person is dead

Some say no thanks and walk away perhaps not working in field again.... maybe some regret that....

I have NOT walked in those shoes ........maybe i would see differently if I had lived through that.
but life does not have a Do-Over button.

In court to prosecute on a theory it is all the defendants issue ......
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My bold above...

It seems that the majority of these girls were from broken or poverty stricken homes from what I've read. One mother said that she was informed by her 14 year old who was at that time being abused by both Maxwell and Epstein.. that she employed as their cleaner.. and was earning $300...
 
hollydolly said:
My bold above...

It seems that the majority of these girls were from broken or poverty stricken homes from what I've read. One mother said that she was informed by her 14 year old who was at that time being abused by both Maxwell and Epstein.. that she employed as their cleaner.. and was earning $300...
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I had not seen that but there seems to be bits and pieces ..
i saw a interview with one of the girls and she did not say her family was poor... but was very happy about 300 to go to party and at first being taught to massage Epstein.... brought her sister next time.

I understand being poor but would not look the other way if my daughter was involved....
 
............Everybody's looking for something.................
Some of them want to use you. Some of them want to get used by you. Some of them want to abuse you. Some of them want to be abused
Sweet Dreams by Eurythmics
 
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