What can the world do to punish Russia?

Shero said:
Fact check: False claim of US biolabs in Ukraine tied to Russian disinformation campaign

The posts on Facebook misrepresent a treaty between the U.S. and Ukraine aimed at preventing biological threats. The labs in question are owned and funded by the Ukrainian government, according to the Security Service of Ukraine, the country's main security agency.
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Full fact check here

Fact check: False claim of US biolabs in Ukraine tied to Russian disinformation campaign (msn.com)

Russia is using "useful idiots" to spread their disinformation and propaganda. We should not let ourselves be taken in.

While it is true that all governments can be rather careful about full disclosure in the name of national security I know that I would believe a democratic government every time over an autocratic one. Putin cannot be trusted and, with his past behaviour in mind, I am rather surprised that anyone would listen to his propaganda.
 

For those of you who want to punish Russia, what are you going to do to the USA for starting two needless wars, killing one million people, and destroying the infrastructure of two innocent nations?
 
oldiebutgoody said:
For those of you who want to punish Russia, what are you going to do to the USA for starting two needless wars, killing one million people, and destroying the infrastructure of two innocent nations?
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Well, apparently there's no plans to punish the U.S. for the needless wars, and yes, I do get it...something should have been done. Talk had been of charging former president Geroge W. Bush and former PM Tony Blair for war crimes, but it was just so much wasted warm air.
Are you suggesting that Russia should be excused for the invasion of Ukraine?
 
oldiebutgoody said:
For those of you who want to punish Russia, what are you going to do to the USA for starting two needless wars, killing one million people, and destroying the infrastructure of two innocent nations?
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Bit late now to punish America for past wars but not too late to save Ukraine from annexation into the new Russian Empire against their will.

If we in Australia decided to annex New Zealand I would hope we would be stopped with as little bloodshed as possible.
 
Warrigal said:
Bit late now to punish America for past wars but not too late to save Ukraine from annexation into the new Russian Empire against their will.

If we in Australia decided to annex New Zealand I would hope we would be stopped with as little bloodshed as possible.
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The USA decided not to recognize any secession claims made by the Confederate States. Madrid made the same decision about Catalonia. And now Russia made the same decision about Ukraine. What's the difference?
 
oldiebutgoody said:
Should Bush be excused for his imperialism? Over a twenty year period the USA attacked two innocent nations, killed a million people, and destroyed their infrastructures. Millions of people are still hospitalized because of bombings, bullets, attacks, etc. Nobody has sent Bush a bill for his terrorism or even had the guts to petition the UN or world courts for redress of grievances.

Putin engages in these actions and suddenly everyone is enraged and decides that counter actions must be undertaken.

Why the interest in stopping Russia when the entire world looked the other way for these past 20 years?

Madrid invades Catalonia and nobody blinks. Border clashes have gone on for 40 years between Ethiopia's Afar region and Somalia. Hundreds were killed last year: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021...egion-says-hundreds-massacred-by-afar-militia

The ongoing border conflict between Ethiopia and Sudan is even worse with over 300,000 dead:

https://apnews.com/article/middle-e...hir-ethiopia-11acd51f300de03dfb81b76612ff97ba

Saudi Arabia has led a coalition against Yemen with reports of as many as 300,000+ dead:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021...y-possible-in-one-generation-if-war-stops-now


There continue to be conflicts between Western Sahara and Morocco, as well as the continuing conflict between Israel and Palestine. Again, somebody explain the selectivity here. Why must the USA suddenly play the role of moral guardian when it has looked the other in so many of these conflicts listed above and where it has attacked and killed more people than any other country on earth?

Meantime problems continue at home with cops killing innocent people virtually every day. Are we to continue to look the other way as these problems go unabated while we waste more of our tax dollars on business that is no concern of ours?
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Amen. None of these mattered because they didn't impact our cost of living. Now all of a sudden it matters.
 
oldiebutgoody said:
The USA decided not to recognize any secession claims made by the Confederate States. Madrid made the same decision about Catalonia. And now Russia made the same decision about Ukraine. What's the difference?
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The difference is Ukraine was a done deal of independence until Putin decided to change it. Maybe it never should have been done in the first place? It was done.
 
oldiebutgoody said:
For those of you who want to punish Russia, what are you going to do to the USA for starting two needless wars, killing one million people, and destroying the infrastructure of two innocent nations?
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Those situations have now passed.
Is that a good enough reason to let another country be taken over by a mongrel dog?
This is a current situation that the world has a chance to stop.
No doubt, once again, the world will sit by and watch a democratic country be bombed back to the dark ages.
 
Warrigal said:
Putin is not likely to stop at Ukraine. He has more grandiose plans.
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Yes Putin has great plans, he always had great plans. That of reforming the USSR. He wants to get his hands on : Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan. The Republics of the USSR
 
Pepper said:
The difference is Ukraine was a done deal of independence until Putin decided to change it. Maybe it never should have been done in the first place? It was done.
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The Donbas region of Ukraine declared its independence. Putin recognizes it. If Ukraine has the right to break away, then Donbas has the same right - and if they wish to become a part of Russia, so be it. That would readily end the conflict we see today. Contrary to all the myth making we see today, neither Putin nor any other person or group in Russia has indicated it plans to march into the rest of the world.
 
Shero said:
Yes Putin has great plans, he always had great plans. That of reforming the USSR. He wants to get his hands on : Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan. The Republics of the USSR
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Impossible as Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania are all in NATO.
 
oldiebutgoody said:
Had Bush been stopped by the international community Putin would not have dared do such a thing.

How about sending Bush a multi TRILLION dollar bill for all the damage his imperialistic terrorism caused in Afghanistan and Iraq? How about a murder charge against him since there is no statute of limitations on murder? The Nuremberg Tribunals were conducted after WW II by the international community. Now that it is the post war period, why not conduct such a tribunal for the murderer?

The problem is that people are just too inconsistent in the application of their principles. For the world to ignore Bush's genocidal imperialism (and remember that he also threatened Iran) but to suddenly become enraged over Putin is a complete absurdity. The things being said about Putin are exactly the same things said about Saddam 30 years ago - that he was going to cross every border in the Middle East, then into the Caucasus, then into Europe, then into Africa, then across the oceans into the rest of the world, then eventually going up into the stratosphere and into the Milky Way. Each and every one of those claims, like those today, being nothing but lies and excuses for creating more profitable war.

And again, where was all the outrage when expansionists on both sides of the border committed atrocities in Ethiopia-Sudan and Ethiopia-Somalia? People are continuing to die in Yemen in the worse humanitarian crisis in modern history - no big deal, right? Let them all croak, right? F_____k them all, right?

Like it or not, people must be consistent in the application of their principles or they become utterly worthless. Before anyone attempts to punish Putin, do so to Bush. Then you may possibly gain some measure of credibility for those of us who know what these profitable wars are really all about.
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It wasn't just "Bush"...remember, we live in a democratically based country, so what about going after the whole congress for it - they voted for it. Remember 911 was what started it. Wondering how many of us said "ok" about the bombing of the twin towers?

Its always something that starts the war ball rolling.

In this case its a deranged dictator - to me, that is the main difference:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/46...-turbulent-history-since-independence-in-1991
 
Liberty said:
It wasn't just "Bush"...remember, we live in a democratically based country, so what about going after the whole congress for it - they voted for it. Remember 911 was what started it. Wondering how many of us said "ok" about the bombing of the twin towers?

Its always something that starts the war ball rolling.

In this case its a deranged dictator - to me, that is the main difference:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/46...-turbulent-history-since-independence-in-1991
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OBL was exiled and living in Pakistan at the time Bush launched his invasion of Afghanistan. Thus, he targeted the wrong country. Of course, Pakistan has nuclear weapons and the risk of retaliation was infinitely riskier. Iraq never posed a threat to the USA as shown in the Downing Street Memo. Recall how we were given all kinds of pro war propaganda at that time ~ that Saddam was about to conquer the world and stratosphere and that the war was necessary in order to avert it (same words we are seeing today about Putin). The Memo clearly show it was all a sham in order to create a profit making war for terrorist Bush's pals in the military industrial complex.
 
While all this is going on ..... don't forget Russians and the US are up at the Space Station together

Following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, tensions between the US and Russia are particularly strained here on Earth, prompting concerns that friction could inevitably spill over into the two countries’ longstanding partnership in space. For now, both NASA and Russia say they are still working together to keep the International Space Station operational, as they’ve done during past international turmoil.

Russia is, by and large, the United States’ biggest working partner in space. NASA and Russia’s state space corporation, Roscosmos, jointly operate the ISS, an orbiting laboratory that has become the primary space destination for astronauts hailing from America, Russia, and other nations across the globe. Roscosmos and NASA have been working together on the ISS for nearly three decades now, but the US-Russian partnership goes back even further than that. The two space organizations coordinated on Russia’s former Mir space station, swapped seats on NASA’s Space Shuttle and Russia’s Soyuz rocket, and even worked together during the Apollo era on the Apollo-Soyuz test project.

https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/24/...peration-international-space-station-invasion


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HarryHawk said:
Russia took over Crimea in 2014 with no negative consequences. Why would they not come in for another bite of Ukraine?
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I wonder if Putin hasn't been following what Hitler did before WWII started. Hitler took over 1 country but no one stopped him. Then he took over another one and no one stopped him. Dictators can be awful greedy. They strongly believe in the theory that more is better.
 
Nathan said:
We don't really want to punish the Russian people, that would backfire and cause them to rally behind Putin.
Putin is a master 'chess player', his years in the KGB helped hone those skills. It took years to hunt down and kill Bin Laden, who was just some scruffy dude hiding in 3rd world conditions. Putin would be a much more difficult target.
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There is a story I read of an American reporter who wanted to interview Putin. He described the long wait which included being moved from one room to another, spending hours in each one. When he was finally permitted to meet him in person, he was surprised at what a rat-like person Putin was. There is more to the story but that's what stuck with me. I remember too a picture of Putin with a group of older teens bending an aluminum skillet, and a video of him drawing the butt end of a cat for elementary school children. It was just two legs and a tail with with a dot midway between and the kids couldn't figure out what the heck it was. Putin said, "It is a cat...walking away from you." The guy was always weird.
 

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