Elementary School Shooting in Uvalde Texas
- Thread starter JustBonee
- Start date
You mean the part about a well-regulated militia? Do you understand what those words mean, or is the concept too difficult for you to grasp? And if you do understand what the words mean, would you say they apply to Salvador Ramos?
His mother said, "He had his reasons." I'd like to know what reasons anyone could have had for committing such an atrocity.
Lots of blame is deservedly going to the non-acting police in this case. They apparently got no orders to do anything other than just show up there and stand around, listening to the gunshots inside. Not one of them had the common sense or gumption to find a way to break in.
But I really do feel that the biggest part of the blame in this situation goes to whoever provided a mentally ill person with such a weapon. There seems to be very little publicity about this. I wonder why.
If he bought it "legally," I think whoever sold it to him should be prosecuted. And if there is no law in Texas regulating who is allowed to buy an assault weapon, there should be. Georgia swang over into sanity; maybe some day, Teas will also.
But I really do feel that the biggest part of the blame in this situation goes to whoever provided a mentally ill person with such a weapon. There seems to be very little publicity about this. I wonder why.
If he bought it "legally," I think whoever sold it to him should be prosecuted. And if there is no law in Texas regulating who is allowed to buy an assault weapon, there should be. Georgia swang over into sanity; maybe some day, Teas will also.
rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
OK, you own a gun store, I walk in and display no outward signs of being imbalanced. I Say , yes ma'am I liked to purchase that $2000 gun there. At what point would you decide I should perhaps not have that weapon ? You run the required background check , I am cleared to purchase, then I go out & do something horrible ....... should you be arrested/prosecuted ..... possibly jailed ??
Interesting that you mention "Doing Nothing."
Exactly what police officers did for an hour when they arrived. "Nothing." While children called & begged for help.
I am not the bravest person in the world, but if I am outside of a school, regardless if it’s an elementary or high school, and I hear unmistakable gunshots ringing out and I am armed, which I will be because I carry my gun most everywhere I go, I certainly would attempt to make entry away from the last place I heard a shot. If I heard the shot in the front of the building, I would try to make entry through the rear.
My biggest concern is that I would assume the shooter to be using an AR-15 and I wouldn’t be wearing any protection, like a Kevlar vest, so I would need to be in an area where I can duck behind a wall or some other form of protection. If the AR-15 is firing .223 shells, I would probably fire at the target and then immediately change positions. I doubt if hiding behind a brick wall would stop a .223.
I don’t think I could just do nothing.
"If he bought it legally, the seller should be prosecuted?" For what?
Should the seller who sold Tim McVeigh Fertilizer & fuel he used to kill 167 people - including 21 children in the day care center on the 1st floor, be prosecuted, too?
Should the seller who sold knives to Charles Manson's gang be prosecuted?
C'mon, you can make more sense than that.
Last edited:
Paco Dennis
SF VIP
- Location
- Mid-Missouri
How come Switzerland has guns but no mass shootings?
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
Presented with humor, but a lot of good points were made.
From Ruth Marcus's column in today's Post:
Just two weeks ago, a divided panel of the 9th Circuit struck down California’s ban on the sale of semiautomatic rifles to anyone under 21.
The opinion, by [deleted] appointee Ryan D. Nelson, opened with a paean to Colonial-era youths. “America would not exist without the heroism of the young adults who fought and died in our revolutionary army,” he wrote, joined by fellow [deleted] appointee Kenneth Lee. “Today we reaffirm that our Constitution still protects the right that enabled their sacrifice: the right of young adults to keep and bear arms.”
Seriously? Tell that to the parents of the dead fourth-graders in Uvalde. This isn’t about who could carry muskets back then. It’s about who has access to deadly weaponry today, guns more lethal than the authors of the Second Amendment could ever have imagined.
And that's exactly the point. The Constitution is able to be amended. So are the amendments. They are not carved in stone, meant to be blindly followed for centuries or millenia, no matter what has changed. Today's weapons are a far cry from the muskets of the Revolutionary War. The penchant for committing mass shootings of innocent people, by youths who are psychotic, twisted by the lives they lead every day, maybe on drugs, etc. is a far cry from the "well-regulated militia" of the 18th century.
Things do change, and sometimes our behavior has to change also. After all, if you became critically ill, would you want to be treated by George Washington's doctor?
Just two weeks ago, a divided panel of the 9th Circuit struck down California’s ban on the sale of semiautomatic rifles to anyone under 21.
The opinion, by [deleted] appointee Ryan D. Nelson, opened with a paean to Colonial-era youths. “America would not exist without the heroism of the young adults who fought and died in our revolutionary army,” he wrote, joined by fellow [deleted] appointee Kenneth Lee. “Today we reaffirm that our Constitution still protects the right that enabled their sacrifice: the right of young adults to keep and bear arms.”
Seriously? Tell that to the parents of the dead fourth-graders in Uvalde. This isn’t about who could carry muskets back then. It’s about who has access to deadly weaponry today, guns more lethal than the authors of the Second Amendment could ever have imagined.
And that's exactly the point. The Constitution is able to be amended. So are the amendments. They are not carved in stone, meant to be blindly followed for centuries or millenia, no matter what has changed. Today's weapons are a far cry from the muskets of the Revolutionary War. The penchant for committing mass shootings of innocent people, by youths who are psychotic, twisted by the lives they lead every day, maybe on drugs, etc. is a far cry from the "well-regulated militia" of the 18th century.
Things do change, and sometimes our behavior has to change also. After all, if you became critically ill, would you want to be treated by George Washington's doctor?
Our founding fathers had no concept of automatic weapons. They were picturing muskets, which take far too long to load to be effective in a mass shooting. No doubt our founding fathers were mostly fine, moral men but they were insider politicians, they were not saints or prophets, and they could not see the future.
I don't think there's been any reports that he was ever diagnosed as mentally ill or a convicted felon. Why would a background check make any difference.
The NRA believes that the best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun, but there is not and never will be a fool proof way to tell which is which. When this murderer bought his guns he looked just like any other 18 year old.
Pete Arredondo, who serves as the chief police for the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District, was the "Incident Commander," of the situation at the school.
I expect he's the only one who will have to pay big consequences. All those 19 policemen who were standing around in the school hallway for 77 minutes waiting for the Border Patrol Tactical Unit to come, and the janitor to find the keys, will be able to say they were following orders from the Incident Commander.
I understand that there would be chaos if military and police didn't follow orders, but you'd think at some point, one of them might have slipped around to the outside to look in the window, or run down to the school office to look for another set of keys, or found the janitor to ask him what was taking so long, or gone outside and asked one of the teachers for her keys. Would that have been so terribly disobedient to the commander?
Were the 911 operators relaying any information to the police?
The 3 other policemen who were there when George Floyd died are in prison now even though they were following orders from a senior officer. Just saying.
Those parents are so devastated and so angry, it hurts my heart every time the news talks to one of them.
I expect he's the only one who will have to pay big consequences. All those 19 policemen who were standing around in the school hallway for 77 minutes waiting for the Border Patrol Tactical Unit to come, and the janitor to find the keys, will be able to say they were following orders from the Incident Commander.
I understand that there would be chaos if military and police didn't follow orders, but you'd think at some point, one of them might have slipped around to the outside to look in the window, or run down to the school office to look for another set of keys, or found the janitor to ask him what was taking so long, or gone outside and asked one of the teachers for her keys. Would that have been so terribly disobedient to the commander?
Were the 911 operators relaying any information to the police?
The 3 other policemen who were there when George Floyd died are in prison now even though they were following orders from a senior officer. Just saying.
Those parents are so devastated and so angry, it hurts my heart every time the news talks to one of them.
rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
How do you know that ? Were any of his indiscretions a matter of record ? Was he on file @ a hospital, or perhaps a police station as a mental case ?
Every time something like this happens the NRA starts talking about better back ground checks even when it's clear that better background checks would not have kept this boy or most of these mass killers from getting their guns. Felons steal their guns. Teens make their own guns from kits or get a friend to buy their guns for them.
Background checks are just the NRA's favorite distraction to keep us from talking about the real reason this keeps happening.
It's the guns! Take the guns away and it can't happen.
Background checks are just the NRA's favorite distraction to keep us from talking about the real reason this keeps happening.
It's the guns! Take the guns away and it can't happen.
In this instance it wouldn't have done much good as the door was propped open.
Well, yeah, you do have to shut and lock the doors, but they do make spring loaded closers. Hospitals also use them for their medicine closets. They have to do the same as pilots when they want to enter. They have to type in the combination number.
Had the same doors been on the school with a policy in place that all entrance doors must be closed and locked, I am sure that this nut job wouldn’t have been able to get in.
Don’t you believe that this would be a viable option?
There are schools in our area and probably in other areas that teachers and administrators have to use their keycard to open doors, including the entrance doors to the school. Problem with keycards us that they can be stolen. Combination numbers cannot be stolen, unless some fool writes them down and keeps a copy somewhere students have access.
Each time a plane lands, the new pilots flying that plane, put in their own numbers, so the combination is never the same.
Each time a plane lands, the new pilots flying that plane, put in their own numbers, so the combination is never the same.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
The video is unavailable in OZ so I did a bit of digging.
This is what I found. Mass shootings are not the only problem related to gun ownership.
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
So he would have timed his slaughter of innocents for recess time or immediately following school dismissal. It doesn't take a genius to know dozens of children are milling around a school.
What about the grocery store shooting in Buffalo, or the nightclub shooting in Orlando, or the movie theater shooting in Aurora, or the outdoor shooting in Las Vegas. We can't secure everyone behind breach proof doors every time they leave their homes.
Nosy Bee-54
Senior Member
Former NYPD Commissioner Bill Bratton says it is “mind-boggling” how much Texas authorities mishandled last week’s school massacre.
“I’ve never seen anything like it in all my years of policing,” Bratton said during an appearance on WABC 770’s “The Cats Roundtable” that aired Sunday. “I have so much anger at the moment at how mishandled this has been.”
“We now understand that there may have been an off-duty border patrol agent who is sitting in a barber shop. And his wife calls from the school. She’s a teacher, and she’s there with her daughter in the classroom,” he said. “He grabs a shotgun from the barber shop, rushes to the school, goes into the back of the school … and rescues a classroom of children and his wife and his daughter, even as in another part of the school there are 19 police officers … in the hallways outside the classroom where the shooter is holed up.
“The children] were … dying literally, while the [police] were standing outside the door,” Bratton said. “How do you put your arms around this thing?”
https://nypost.com/2022/05/29/ex-nypd-commish-bratton-slams-police-response-to-texas-massacre/
“I’ve never seen anything like it in all my years of policing,” Bratton said during an appearance on WABC 770’s “The Cats Roundtable” that aired Sunday. “I have so much anger at the moment at how mishandled this has been.”
“We now understand that there may have been an off-duty border patrol agent who is sitting in a barber shop. And his wife calls from the school. She’s a teacher, and she’s there with her daughter in the classroom,” he said. “He grabs a shotgun from the barber shop, rushes to the school, goes into the back of the school … and rescues a classroom of children and his wife and his daughter, even as in another part of the school there are 19 police officers … in the hallways outside the classroom where the shooter is holed up.
“The children] were … dying literally, while the [police] were standing outside the door,” Bratton said. “How do you put your arms around this thing?”
https://nypost.com/2022/05/29/ex-nypd-commish-bratton-slams-police-response-to-texas-massacre/