Help me please! America, freedom of speech, is it still real?

The article doesn't support your claim in any manner. Also it is an opinion piece laced with biblical references. Lying if used to defraud another is legally, fraud.
 
In order to have a "contract" there must be a meeting of the minds. If you sell me a used car and represent it to me either in writing or verbally as having a rebuilt engine and it turns out not to be, that is misrepresentation and probably fraud as well. You would be liable.
 
rkunsaw said:
We deal with salespeople every day, whether in person, on the phone or online. Everything you see on the internet may not be true. You can do a lot of research and get a lot of different opinions.

This thread is about freedom of speech. I was merely pointing out that salesmen have the freedom to lie.
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I found it interesting that you posted an opinion piece below after saying that "everything you see on the internet may not be true".

On a side note, misrepresentation in product liability can be used in a civil suit. There is no "law" allowing salesmen to lie, however people (including salespeople) often exaggerate a product's ability or usefulness-it's always been a problem and likely will always be a problem.

When a manufacturer or seller misrepresents a product, that misrepresentation can be the basis for a product liability action. In the product liability context, misrepresentation occurs when product advertising, packaging, labels, sales pitch, or other product information available to consumers misrepresent material facts concerning the quality or use of the product.

Negligent misrepresentation is frequently part of a civil or class action suit. A finding of intentional misrepresentation is rare as the manufacturer or seller's intent is difficult to prove.
 
Elyzabeth said:
"Well and thoughtfully put, Dame Warrigal. I have never understood why some people think that "freedom of speech" means freedom to express bigotry, hatred, intolerance, or approval of violence against others. We are all on this earth together"

Actually freedom of speech means that we can say all of the above.
That is why it is called Freedom of Speech.
people are allowed to say things which other people might find very distasteful.
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There is a difference between 'freedom' and 'licence'.

Freedom and license must not be confused: freedom embraces responsibility and is guided by reason and virtue; license is choice without restraint.

Freedom is taking responsibility for our own life. Insofar as it is compatible with the common good, people should be allowed to choose freely how they want to live.

License is the throwing off of all responsibility. It is a carte blanche to do as we feel. As such, it is incompatible with virtue and destroys community.
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Inciting violence against others is clearly licence.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
Insofar as it is compatible with the common good, people should be allowed to choose freely how they want to live.
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And what happens when the "common good" is being dictated to you by your overseers?

If I have a well on my property and some government lackey comes around and tells me that I MUST have the water tested - how is that for the common good? I'm the only one using that water.
 
SifuPhil said:
And what happens when the "common good" is being dictated to you by your overseers?

If I have a well on my property and some government lackey comes around and tells me that I MUST have the water tested - how is that for the common good? I'm the only one using that water.
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Then you have the freedom to express your objection and ask why the test is considered necessary.

Has your hypothetical scenario ever occurred?
I think it more likely that you would be told that you must make sure that the well is covered so that no-one can accidentally fall in and drown.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
Then you have the freedom to express your objection and ask why the test is considered necessary.
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Oh, you can ask ... but they're under no compulsion to tell.

Has your hypothetical scenario ever occurred?
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As a matter of fact it did, many moons ago. We had just moved into a somewhat rural area of the county, 10 acres around us with the house right in the middle and the well located slightly uphill from the house.

One of the county critters came around and informed me that I had to have the well water tested by the county labs and that it would cost $250 for said test. When I questioned WHY the test was necessary he simply said, "It's the law".

I think it more likely that you would be told that you must make sure that the well is covered so that no-one can accidentally fall in and drown.
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It was well-covered (ha-ha!), and I remember that because my first son was 3 years old at the time and I was going bonkers thinking about him falling down the well.
 
I just discovered this fascinating discussion - a day late and a dollar short, as usual.

I can vouch for the fact that they do have freedom of speech in England, at least in London. On the second day of my visit, I ventured over to the Hyde Park speakers' corner, where every nut case was expounding upon their pet theories. The biggest crowd was around some guy who was anti women's lib, insisted that nobody has ever discriminated against women in any way, all the laws were put there to protect women so they could be good mothers to their children, etc. The crowd stared at him incredulously, a few men offered some arguments (the women all remained shocked, amused, and silent), but nobody removed him from the bench he was standing on or tried to shut him up. How much more freedom of speech can there be than that?
 
Sunny said:
... The crowd stared at him incredulously, a few men offered some arguments (the women all remained shocked, amused, and silent), but nobody removed him from the bench he was standing on or tried to shut him up. How much more freedom of speech can there be than that?
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Could that be because of the wonderfully respected and world-renowned British stiff upper lip? It just wouldn't do to take umbrage at someone like that ... ;)
 
They tried to institute a Speaker's Corner in NYC's Greenwich Village when I was living there in the '70's.

Most of the speakers had bottles and cans thrown at them. :cower:
 
Sunny said:
I just discovered this fascinating discussion - a day late and a dollar short, as usual.

I can vouch for the fact that they do have freedom of speech in England, at least in London. On the second day of my visit, I ventured over to the Hyde Park speakers' corner, where every nut case was expounding upon their pet theories. The biggest crowd was around some guy who was anti women's lib, insisted that nobody has ever discriminated against women in any way, all the laws were put there to protect women so they could be good mothers to their children, etc. The crowd stared at him incredulously, a few men offered some arguments (the women all remained shocked, amused, and silent), but nobody removed him from the bench he was standing on or tried to shut him up. How much more freedom of speech can there be than that?
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Scotland certainly has freedom of speech as well! You should hear the names they call the leaders in London! There are very many (not all!) Americans that seem to think the US is the only country in the world that has freedom of speech. It isn't.
 
halalu said:
Help me please; I recently made comments about sex acts between two consenting adults is their business. (Fifty Shades of Gray) movie and books led to the comment I made. I also said that some races or people consider certain sex acts normal. Those comments caused some females to be insulted and very cruel. One of them said that I should not be allowed to communicate about sex in public. What happened to freedom of speech and everyone being entitled to their own opinion?
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The Truman quote is appropriate here: "If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen." Having said that you might change the nature of your discourse in such a way that it appears more clinical. There are hordes of people out there who have developed violent feelings about any subject. So, now days, instead of polite discourse you will receive verbal violence from many who disagree.

Sex is such a difficult subject to discuss in a forum like this, or in other public areas. I am a man, but I see women who are afraid to be out alone in public. I did a short study once in college. I went into a couple of night spots located around a university. So there were plenty of women as well as men to observe. This was back in the early 80's. What I saw with the men was some posturing by the men. Some of the men would start approaching the women. The men would become louder. I thought I might see some racial differences. There were a few differences among the men of both races.

What I noticed, at first, was there was absolutely no differences among the women. The women would seem almost robot like in their dealings with men coming to their table. They might smile, but for all intents the women were ignoring the men. Then I noticed by accident that the women were guarding their *******s. They kept their knees firmly together and their hands almost firmly in their crotch area. Especially when men were around. Then they might relax some, put their hands on the table, open their legs slightly. This was OK when they were with just women.

Then I noticed this behavior outside the club, actually I noticed it everywhere. Around men, women were always protecting their *******s, even when wearing pants. I approached one of my female friends with this information and she denied knowing about it.
If she was telling the truth, and I doubted it, she likely grew up with her mother and other females telling her to protect her crotch because men would take it as a sign she was approachable. I doubt if it was really much help with aggressive men.

I bring this up because it just exposes the surface of problems women and girls have with sex. It surprises me that women want to be with men at all except for protection. I have heard women say this to men, "you make me feel safe".

Now days both girls as young as 7, and women are exposed to internet porn, they get harassed on line. The get harassed, groped and sexually assaulted on the playground by young boys. These young boys are also sexualized on the internet with porn. When I was young, in the 60's, we rarely encountered photographs of actual sex acts. Young women can grow up with psychological injuries from sexual trauma. And boys are not far off of that. How can we expect them to understand the rights of another person when we are modeling the reverse?

What we need is to separate the girls and boys. We need to keep everyone safe. It is not possible at present. We need to teach ethics from a young age. We need to teach some form of spirituality. It could be a meditation class like Tai Chee. We need to have classes where girls tell the boys what is happening to them. There needs to be an atmosphere of empathy.

I am not saying that we should give up our rights. I would be the first to advocate for you. In this case however, I would err on the side of empathy.
 
Sometimes free speech is 'over the top' for social conversations.

I mean if a guy can't make a sentence without cursing and swearing, I just walk away.

You have to draw the line somewhere. You can't impose your moral standards or lack of moral standards on someone else without expecting to be told about it.
 
Uncontrolable, that is a very astute observation concerning interactions between women and men that they are unfamiliar with. It brought back a memory of being groped underwater at the public swimming pool when I was a prepubescent child. The perp was just a teenager but the experience was both painful and humiliating.

Other than that I really don't have any other recollections. Possibly it could be because in the 1950s we wore so many layers of clothing and undergarments that the groin area was well protected. I do remember protecting myself from stares at my breasts. Cotton dresses tended to be revealing when you leaned forward and the hand was always placed over the chest to prevent exposure. I was never touched but uninvited comments were distressing.

Camper, I agree about the language. I recently joined a forum that prided itself on freedom of speech. I put up with the foul language for a while but when one member kept talking about the most disgusting things I not only left, I hounded the moderator to remove my name from the list of members. It took some time because he could not understand my request. He had become accustomed to this standard and couldn't fathom my reaction.
 

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