Spare the rod, spoil the child ???

Alligatorob said:
You are probably right, and given that for the first million years or so of human existence it was common and accepted practice. In a relative sense its only been in the last few minutes a movement against corporal punishment of children has appeared.

Doesn't mean we should try and stop it.
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I do agree. I remember these two girls in high school in a class were verbally bullying me terribly. The teacher (as I remember her was youngish) wanted to take me to the office to speak to someone about what was going on and what she herself had witnessed. I flat refused. I knew if my mother and stepfather found out, my mother would make a scene (she had a history of doing such) make the situation all about her (typical borderline) and I'd end up with more abuse. Including in that house. No place is safe for some kids and minors.
 

@WheatenLover I too am curious (or nosy) as to the outcome of this poor child.

I was never thrown out but I was threatened with it. At a younger age. My mother raged at me all my crap would be on the street and I wouldn't have anyplace to live. This is the one and only incident I ever confronted my mother about in my 20's. She flat denied it and unleashed projection and abuse on me further. That's the brain of a borderline.
 
We didn't hit our children; They don't hit their children. None of them were "mouthy little brats," Marci, and our family is a very close, loving one (in spite of not being geographically close). "Wait till your father gets home" sounds like a great way to make kids resent, fear, and hate their fathers. Is that what you consider a good way to raise children?

Obviously, kids have to be stopped from wrong, dangerous, or obnoxious behavior. (I'm talking about normal kids, not those with psychiatric problems who have to be treated by professionals.) But such behavior can be corrected in many different ways than physically striking or threatening them, or making the other parent the villain. In our case, the usual punishment was "go to your room." That was enough to get the message across. Or taking away privileges, making them correct the harm them have done, etc. Assaulting them, and yes, even a spanking is a kind of assault, is never necessary or a good idea.
 

When raising my son, I always went by the rule "Let him guide me as a parent." Being sensitive to his needs as a child was important.

In my upbringing, I don't ever remember my parents spanking me, but I do remember the "belt" that miraculously appeared on the table when we kids were misbehaving. One time, when I was young, I was jumping up and down on the bed and my dad came in the room with the "belt" and I immediately jumped off. I was scared of that thing! But I wasn't scared of my dad. Loved him!!

In grade school, (I think first grade) a teacher used a ruler to slap our palms. I was a chatterbox then, and that action got me very quiet. Never happened again.

Finally, I remember being at the zoo, and the guide there told us about the gorillas there and their behaviors. One time, a bunch of teenage gorillas were out misbehaving, and when they returned to their parents, the parents slapped them silly. Go figure!
 
I do not believe in spanking or any physical abuse... IMO it teaches a child that physical reactions are acceptable and probably programs future reactions in them. I remember thinking I would rather my parent spank me and 'get it over with' rather than taking away some privilege...that was 'painful', especially if missing something the child was looking forward to..that IMO more effectively teaches consequences
 
For decades, I've been at odds with dominant psychology science over value of some corporal punishment. Don't respect much of supposed research because those creating papers tend to have PC agendas and state conclusions too black and white. That is because they know they cannot control emotional psychologically unfit and ignorant parents to apply physical punishments. My main objections to the status quo concerning corporal punishment is not with what parents do to children but rather adult punishment that I won't hijack the thread about since it is somewhat off topic. Before our recent modern telecom era, there was a huge problem with acceptable adult punishment due to those in charge being too isolated from oversights.
 
Remy said:
@WheatenLover I too am curious (or nosy) as to the outcome of this poor child.

I was never thrown out but I was threatened with it. At a younger age. My mother raged at me all my crap would be on the street and I wouldn't have anyplace to live. This is the one and only incident I ever confronted my mother about in my 20's. She flat denied it and unleashed projection and abuse on me further. That's the brain of a borderline.
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On her deathbed, my mother apologized for throwing me out when I was 18. She said she was heartbroken when she came home from work and I had moved, and she had felt badly about it ever since. I was surprised because I don't remember that. I do remember that I had planned to move out. So she maybe accelerated that by up to a week. I do know that I had an apartment to go to, where my friend/roommate was already living.

I know all about the brain of a borderline, unfortunately. My mother had all the signs, but I don't know how her severe PTSD from being raised in Leipzig as a small child during WW2 works into all that. I just figured she had PTSD for sure. When I was an adult, I realized that, and cut her a lot of slack. My cousin's mother was in the same situation and was worse than my mother during her bad moments. The bad moments came out of the blue, but we both learned to recognize the signs ahead of time. A muscle in my mother's cheek would twitch.
 
Alligatorob said:
You are probably right, and given that for the first million years or so of human existence it was common and accepted practice. In a relative sense its only been in the last few minutes a movement against corporal punishment of children has appeared.

Doesn't mean we should not try and stop it.
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Just saw an old typo, too late to edit. I just added the not. Changes the meaning a lot.
 
palides2021 said:
Finally, I remember being at the zoo, and the guide there told us about the gorillas there and their behaviors. One time, a bunch of teenage gorillas were out misbehaving, and when they returned to their parents, the parents slapped them silly.
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Interesting observation, don't know if we are any more evolved than gorillas, but we are smarter (I think). Smart enough to think about what we are doing, and why it might be wrong.

Some of us are, some of the time anyway...
 
I was never physically abused as a child. My mother knew that psychological abuse would serve her purposes just as well, and last longer.

My school district has offered parenting classes, but they’re sparsely attended, and those who desperately need it don’t attend. Some places actually offer financial or other incentives just to get attendees at all…sad! 😔
 
Remy said:
@WheatenLover I too am curious (or nosy) as to the outcome of this poor child.

I was never thrown out but I was threatened with it. At a younger age. My mother raged at me all my crap would be on the street and I wouldn't have anyplace to live. This is the one and only incident I ever confronted my mother about in my 20's. She flat denied it and unleashed projection and abuse on me further. That's the brain of a borderline.
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AFAIK, she lived with her mother and her sister, at least until she was 18. She still rode the school bus with my kids. I don't know anything about that family now. I know her sister was into minor crimes, but that was 6 or more years ago.
 
There are so very many means of controlling a misbehaving child that do not use any form of abuse.
1.) When the child is gone from the house, collect their favorite clothes and hide them. Only return them when child is "back on track". (works especially well with girls)
2.) Remove their stereo and/or electronic games.
3.) Lock their bedroom door and make them sleep on couch.
4.) no more pizza or other favorite foods.
The list is almost endless
 
senior chef said:
There are so very many means of controlling a misbehaving child that do not use any form of abuse.
1.) When the child is gone from the house, collect their favorite clothes and hide them. Only return them when child is "back on track". (works especially well with girls)
2.) Remove their stereo and/or electronic games.
3.) Lock their bedroom door and make them sleep on couch.
4.) no more pizza or other favorite foods.
The list is almost endless
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I could tell you're childless. Best ways to get your kid to not trust you, especially the behind the back things, and couch sleeping, how petty...

Never fight with your child if your reason is not righteous, and if you could never win.


eta
stereos? Kids today have stereos?
 
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Pepper said:
I could tell you're childless. Best ways to get your kid to not trust you, especially the behind the back things, and couch sleeping, how petty...

Never fight with your child if your reason is not righteous, and if you could never win.


eta
stereos? Kids today have stereos?
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Perhaps you think that a simple rational talk with a misbehaving child would cause him/her to behave properly.
Let's take a common problem. Drug and alcohol use in a 14 year old. Do you honestly think a simple talk would cause the child to behave ?
 
Pepper said:
I could tell you're childless. Best ways to get your kid to not trust you, especially the behind the back things, and couch sleeping, how petty...

Never fight with your child if your reason is not righteous, and if you could never win.


eta
stereos? Kids today have stereos?
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You bet they do. They listen to music on their cell phones via headphones.
 
So many variables. Everything from age to why correction of an unwanted behavior is needed. A child of 4 getting a light swat on the butt along with an explanation of why the swat IMO isn't going to destroy the child's life.
A teen doing drugs a different approach entirely. I never had to contend with that situation so I have no idea of what that different approach would be.
 
Child abuse and disciplining children are two completely different things. I have read about many horrible case of child abuse, and the parents should be put in jail for life.

Re: discipline, I have no children so I can only go by my own experience as a child. I was whipped with a belt, a paddle (at school) and sometimes switches if I misbehaved. If I was out with my parents and I misbehaved, my father would simply start to take off his belt and I would change my behavior. My parents never "bargained with me" like so many current parents do. It was their way or the highway.

I don't think it affected me negatively. It simply gave me an appreciation for authority.
 
dseag2 said:
Child abuse and disciplining children are two completely different things. I have read about many horrible case of child abuse, and the parents should be put in jail for life.

Re: discipline, I have no children so I can only go by my own experience as a child. I was whipped with a belt, a paddle (at school) and sometimes switches if I misbehaved. If I was out with my parents and I misbehaved, my father would simply start to take off his belt and I would change my behavior. My parents never "bargained with me" like so many current parents do. It was their way or the highway.

I don't think it affected me negatively. It simply gave me an appreciation for authority.
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Often, in such parent/child relationships, "Appreciation" and "Respect" are confused with "Fear."
 
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Re: the 14 year old used as an example here. The child wasn't born at 14. What kind of relationship was established over 14 years?

The example is vague and can't be argued and sounds like a fearful, angry example by someone who never actually dealt with children.
 
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