Boston Bomber is guilty! Let's hang him, inject him, fry him, shoot him or gas him!

Shalimar said:
I am not confident in my ability to decide who,has the right to live and who does not. I am not an omnipotent being, and do not wish to,carry that responsibility/guilt. I do, however have no compunction about incarcerating murderers for the duration of their lives. I choose punishment/justice, over revenge. I am not a murderer, and cold blooded executions fill this Canadian with horror. Violence is not the answer.
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Correct
 

Debby said:
This sort of statement strikes me as a blanket generalization and it brought to mind, the numbers of people who were sentenced to death and then were exonerated. What about them? Since 1973, 152 people have been rescued from death row. That's 152 people, maybe just like you, just like me, who were first convicted of a terrible crime and then had charges dismissed or acquitted.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-list-those-freed-death-row

152 people who were grateful that they had opportunity to appeal before the state acted like they had been accused of acting.
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Yes I agree but this is a different case
 
There have certainly been a number of incidents where someone was falsely imprisoned, and every attempt Must be made to prove a persons innocent or guilt. However, when there are multiple credible witnesses, all the evidence is irrefutable, the murderer even admits his guilt, and now, with modern technology, he is caught on camera committing the act, I see no need to expend heroic measures trying to "save" him. The only decision that needs to be made, in such a case, is to determine his punishment....life without parole, or execution.

I also agree totally with Koala on how these criminals should be treated. Instead of warehousing them in a climate controlled environment, where they have nothing to do but sit around and sponge off the taxpayers, and/or plot their next crime, or join some prison gang...they should be required to work their butts off for every meal they get. Prison, in its present form, is hardly any incentive for them to change their ways. The ONLY prison I've heard of in recent years that makes any sense is the one being run by that Arizona Sheriff...Joe Arapio(sp). I would imagine that he gets a minimum of repeat offenders.
 

Debby said:
I agree that there's a difference between soldiers and murderers who kill for the joy of it.

I'm not saying they aren't doing a good thing when they are protecting their countries from attack, but they are in the business of 'killing' aren't they? And there's no shortage of soldier aggression stories or stories of soldiers that are horribly traumatized by the things that they've done or seen other soldiers doing plus all the other horrors of war, so innocence is really the wrong word to use in the same sentence as 'soldier'. Innocent is the little child playing on the floor, innocent is the woman going about her business and not troubling anyone, innocent is the old lady who spends time with her grandchildren, or innocent is the homeless man who's just trying to survive on the streets, but for soldiers, well seems to me, in the context that you've used it, maybe 'captured soldiers' would have been more accurate. After all, if he got caught by ISIS, then he was there to kill ISIS fighters right? I'll bet if you checked the definition of innocence you wouldn't find any mention of 'killing'.

Now if you'd referenced the 'innocent humanitarian aid worker' that would be more accurate because that worker isn't there with the intention of killing anyone.
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Well you know they are not "in the business for killing" they are there to try and stop the enemy. And if the enemy is pointing a gun at you, you gonna let him shoot you or are you gonna shoot first? Of course they come back with PTSD you think it is a picnic over there?
And chances are if he was caught by ISIS , ISIS was there first. I think you should be ashamed to speak of the soldiers the way you do. No one likes war......NO ONE. Do you know how many parents, wives, fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, brothers and sisters , etc...you have offended terribly bad? This conversation is over with me and you ought to be more thankful for the military. You should thank God they volunteer their very life for you.

And no one is "innocent" , we are all born in sin Going back to Genesis. Ok?
 
Don M. said:
There have certainly been a number of incidents where someone was falsely imprisoned, and every attempt Must be made to prove a persons innocent or guilt. However, when there are multiple credible witnesses, all the evidence is irrefutable, the murderer even admits his guilt, and now, with modern technology, he is caught on camera committing the act, I see no need to expend heroic measures trying to "save" him. The only decision that needs to be made, in such a case, is to determine his punishment....life without parole, or execution.

I also agree totally with Koala on how these criminals should be treated. Instead of warehousing them in a climate controlled environment, where they have nothing to do but sit around and sponge off the taxpayers, and/or plot their next crime, or join some prison gang...they should be required to work their butts off for every meal they get. Prison, in its present form, is hardly any incentive for them to change their ways. The ONLY prison I've heard of in recent years that makes any sense is the one being run by that Arizona Sheriff...Joe Arapio(sp). I would imagine that he gets a minimum of repeat offenders.
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Don I agree. Punishment is punishment, not a quick trip out the back door and buried and the country picks up the bill.
I believe all prisons need to be worked by prisoners at different levels according to the crime they committed. Not looked after in a 5 star hotel being further educated, televisions and treated like princesses and princes etc. Do-gooders also need to get out of the way with regard to prisons.
 
Revenge, punishment? How about reform?

Currently there are a couple of Australians on death row in Indonesia for drug smuggling.
Their end is very close now, after 10 years of waiting.

The sadly ironic thing is that both of then have actually been reformed but that makes no difference to the sentence.
What they are hoping for is for the sentence to be commuted to life in prison but it's not going to happen.
 
don m. said:
capital punishment and the death penalty are mute issues. Warehousing criminals, and endless court appeals are big business, which supports thousands of high paid lawyers, and thousands more people operating our jails. The criminal justice system in the u.s. Is a 300 billion dollar a year business. Even if a death sentence is handed down by a judge/jury, that merely starts a 15 year long process which ultimately costs the taxpayers well over a million dollars. On average, it costs over $40,000 a year to keep a person in prison....even on a minor non-violent charge.

Just think how many good honest people this amount of money could help.
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thank you don m.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
Revenge, punishment? How about reform?

Currently there are a couple of Australians on death row in Indonesia for drug smuggling.
Their end is very close now, after 10 years of waiting.

The sadly ironic thing is that both of then have actually been reformed but that makes no difference to the sentence.
What they are hoping for is for the sentence to be commuted to life in prison but it's not going to happen.
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Reform is good also, some have truly changed, but more probably go through the motions to help them get lesser punishment and maybe even released. But what I don't get about this whole stupid thread is why are so many worried about the comfort (or real prison life which I agree with Koala and Don M on), No body seems to care about the people murdered , children included, and the hell the families have to live with the rest of their lives. They can be reformed that is all good but there are still the consequences of their crimes.
I think a drug smuggler is more likely to be serious about changing his life , but not so much a murder. It just depends on the circumstances of what they did while smuggling Dame, did they kill , what? Like I keep saying too the system is horribly broken , those deserving harsh punishment don't get what is right, and others get too much. But it don't matter what I think, ultimately God will be the final Judge. He is the One we all should fear. And with this said I guess I will bow out of this thread.
 
Of course people care. When the Bali 9 (drug smugglers) were arrested I was very angry about the damage they were going to inflict on our Australian youth and I had no sympathy for them at all. Only two of the nine were sentenced to death and my attitude then was that if that is Indonesian law, then so be it because they knew what the deal was if they were to be caught. I cared a lot more for the potential victims than I did for the criminals.

However, ten years down the track there has been genuine reform. One has found redemption through art. He is a model prisoner and conducts art classes for other prisoners. The prison authorities have testified to his value in the prison. The other has studied and is now a Christian pastor, also an asset to the prison. IMO they are not faking and they expect to die while at the same time hoping to live. I hope they will be reprieved too.

It's not about caring versus not caring. We can care for the criminal as well as the victim. WWJS? WWJD?
 
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Dame Warrigal said:
Of course people care. When the Bali 9 (drug smugglers) were arrested I was very angry about the damage they were going to inflict on our Australian youth and I had no sympathy for them at all. Only two of the nine were sentenced to death and my attitude then was that if that is Indonesian law, then so be it because they knew what the deal was if they were to be caught. I cared a lot more for the potential victims than I did for the criminals.

However, ten years down the track there has been genuine reform. One has found redemption through art. He is a model prisoner and conducts art classes for other prisoners. The prison authorities have testified to his value in the prison. The other has studied and is now a Christian pastor, also an asset to the prison. IMO they are not faking and they expect to die while at the same time hoping to live. I hope they will be reprieved too.

It's not about caring versus not caring. We can care for the criminal as well as the victim. WHJS?
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Well Dame it is unfortunate and good all at the same time for those who truly seen the wrong road they were on and turned away. Yes we can care about them to in the spiritual sense. Praying they would find the Lord and seeing from what you have said they did. So while they still must pay for what they had done in the past they can look forward to a new life with the Father. What could be better than that?
 
Dame Warrigal said:
Revenge, punishment? How about reform?

Currently there are a couple of Australians on death row in Indonesia for drug smuggling.
Their end is very close now, after 10 years of waiting.

The sadly ironic thing is that both of then have actually been reformed but that makes no difference to the sentence.
What they are hoping for is for the sentence to be commuted to life in prison but it's not going to happen.
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Dame yes reform......but before that it is not capital punishment.People need punishment not a go easy card by capital punishment as he is off the hook and gone.
The order.......crime, punishment and then if possible reform. However this person should get an end of life sentence as I do not feel he would reform.
 
Don M. said:
There have certainly been a number of incidents where someone was falsely imprisoned, and every attempt Must be made to prove a persons innocent or guilt. However, when there are multiple credible witnesses, all the evidence is irrefutable, the murderer even admits his guilt, and now, with modern technology, he is caught on camera committing the act, I see no need to expend heroic measures trying to "save" him. The only decision that needs to be made, in such a case, is to determine his punishment....life without parole, or execution.

I also agree totally with Koala on how these criminals should be treated. Instead of warehousing them in a climate controlled environment, where they have nothing to do but sit around and sponge off the taxpayers, and/or plot their next crime, or join some prison gang...they should be required to work their butts off for every meal they get. Prison, in its present form, is hardly any incentive for them to change their ways. The ONLY prison I've heard of in recent years that makes any sense is the one being run by that Arizona Sheriff...Joe Arapio(sp). I would imagine that he gets a minimum of repeat offenders.
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Well, according to sources on the net (CBS), if this guy gets life, he will in all likelihood be sent to the Supermax, ADX Florence, Colorado, which has been described by a former warden as a "cleaner version of hell." He would spend 23 hours a day locked down in isolation in his soundproof cell, with no human contact. His 87 square foot cell would contain a bed, an immovable desk and stool, and open shower and toilet, controlled by guards. His food would be delivered through an opening by guards, whom he would never see. He would never have contact with other prisoners. For at least the first few years, he would have no TV, though a black and white one might be earned by good behavior. No internet, no contact with other prisoners or guards. He would be let out an hour a day for exercise into a big room, all cement, with a 4 inch window at the top. He would be in there alone.

Doesn't exactly sound like a "Club Fed," does it.
 
Butterfly said:
Well, according to sources on the net (CBS), if this guy gets life, he will in all likelihood be sent to the Supermax, ADX Florence, Colorado, which has been described by a former warden as a "cleaner version of hell." He would spend 23 hours a day locked down in isolation in his soundproof cell, with no human contact. His 87 square foot cell would contain a bed, an immovable desk and stool, and open shower and toilet, controlled by guards. His food would be delivered through an opening by guards, whom he would never see. He would never have contact with other prisoners. For at least the first few years, he would have no TV, though a black and white one might be earned by good behavior. No internet, no contact with other prisoners or guards. He would be let out an hour a day for exercise into a big room, all cement, with a 4 inch window at the top. He would be in there alone.

Doesn't exactly sound like a "Club Fed," does it.
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If that's true, I'm surprised he fights the death penalty.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
Of course people care. When the Bali 9 (drug smugglers) were arrested I was very angry about the damage they were going to inflict on our Australian youth and I had no sympathy for them at all. Only two of the nine were sentenced to death and my attitude then was that if that is Indonesian law, then so be it because they knew what the deal was if they were to be caught. I cared a lot more for the potential victims than I did for the criminals.

However, ten years down the track there has been genuine reform. One has found redemption through art. He is a model prisoner and conducts art classes for other prisoners. The prison authorities have testified to his value in the prison. The other has studied and is now a Christian pastor, also an asset to the prison. IMO they are not faking and they expect to die while at the same time hoping to live. I hope they will be reprieved too.

It's not about caring versus not caring. We can care for the criminal as well as the victim. WWJS? WWJD?
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I hope you are never called upon to teach in a prison, Dame - there are so many scams that are run on a daily basis that even the most experienced con-man would be tripped up. The casual lie is a way of life behind those thick walls.

Recidivism rates are far too high to trust that anyone has truly reformed.
 
koala said:
Yes I agree but this is a different case
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My comment was directed towards someone who felt that people who'd been convicted of a violent crime should have no opportunity to appeal and they should go direct to the killing chamber. That this case is different to a degree goes without saying, but the same rules of right of appeal until there's absolutely no more evidence should still prevail. You can't 'cherry-pick' justice and fairness.
 
Debby said:
My comment was directed towards someone who felt that people who'd been convicted of a violent crime should have no opportunity to appeal and they should go direct to the killing chamber. That this case is different to a degree goes without saying, but the same rules of right of appeal until there's absolutely no more evidence should still prevail. You can't 'cherry-pick' justice and fairness.
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Agreed...our laws are there for a reason, they need to be followed.
 
lovemylittleboy said:
Well you know they are not "in the business for killing" they are there to try and stop the enemy. And if the enemy is pointing a gun at you, you gonna let him shoot you or are you gonna shoot first? Of course they come back with PTSD you think it is a picnic over there?
And chances are if he was caught by ISIS , ISIS was there first. I think you should be ashamed to speak of the soldiers the way you do. No one likes war......NO ONE. Do you know how many parents, wives, fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, brothers and sisters , etc...you have offended terribly bad? This conversation is over with me and you ought to be more thankful for the military. You should thank God they volunteer their very life for you.

And no one is "innocent" , we are all born in sin Going back to Genesis. Ok?
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Oh spare me. If a war is just (someone attacked us, are attacking us and will continue to attack us) I have no problem with defending ourselves. BUT I point you to the terrible mistake/crime that was the Iraq war or even Libya. I remind you of the Apache helicopter attack that showed American soldiers killing two Reuters journalists and a bunch of civilians including a dad taking his little kids to school and making the mistake of stopping to help one of those journalists and was murdered for his efforts! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEOMchDJOus Apache helicopter murderers.

And then there's the couple thousand innocent civilians (including children) who've been murdered by Obama's drone program in the ME. Do you have any idea how offended those peoples families are at this unending worship of soldiers fighting in illegal wars?

And how many actual experts on politics and wars are suggesting that the war in Iraq was the impetus for the birthing of ISIS? Soldiers kill, they are not 'innocent'. And we are all 'innocent' until that moment when we make a decision to allow for the hurt of someone else to save our own butts or 'get' for ourselves at someone else's expense.

And if you really want to get into what occurred in the Genesis story, we can discuss how human beings treat the other living beings on the planet.....and we'll get to look at how we don't even come close to what 'God' intended.
 
Debby, testify! War is almost always a slippery slope where reality and expediency meet. Regardless, the innocent suffer and die as they always do, and the rich and powerful pick over the bones. voila, c'est le deluge, n'est pas?
 

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