Do you think men are losing their masculinity?
- Thread starter fuzzybuddy
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Alligatorob
SF VIP
How so? Do you think this has changed?
Old Salt
Senior Member
- Location
- New Brunswick, Canada!
But look at history, chic! Men never DID unite! Not ever! While we were in charge (as in "always") there has been war after bloody war, persecutions of minorities, crusades, the inquisition, witch hunts, tribalism, envy of others' land, in other words we have a p... poor record being stewards of this potentially great planet!
Men and women alike, we've messed things up badly! Women are simply the late-comers to the game and therefore bear less of the blame. I had great hopes that females would do a better job once they break the political leader glass ceiling, but you my dear friends have actually told me that I was wrong to expect a change since females are human too!
Here is an interesting article about Millennial men redefining masculinity. It seems to be not so much losing masculinity but adapting to today's societal norms. Based on the article, these new traits of being selfless and giving back are positive.
"In this era of #MeToo, and controversy about “toxic masculinity,” some new research is very relevant: It indicates a shift is underway in how young men envision “manhood” — in their attitudes, their values, and their behavior — in their relationships, their careers, and their view of “success.” I think we’re in the midst of a generational evolution with large-scale societal and political implications.
To illustrate, one study of over 600 millennial-aged men found that they are likely to be selfless, in contrast to the old “looking out for number one” attitude. They are also socially engaged with issues and causes and are highly health-conscious."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...e/201806/are-millennial-men-rejecting-manhood
"In this era of #MeToo, and controversy about “toxic masculinity,” some new research is very relevant: It indicates a shift is underway in how young men envision “manhood” — in their attitudes, their values, and their behavior — in their relationships, their careers, and their view of “success.” I think we’re in the midst of a generational evolution with large-scale societal and political implications.
To illustrate, one study of over 600 millennial-aged men found that they are likely to be selfless, in contrast to the old “looking out for number one” attitude. They are also socially engaged with issues and causes and are highly health-conscious."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...e/201806/are-millennial-men-rejecting-manhood
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Whatever ya wanna call it
Just the thought flat out gives me the creeps
Old Salt
Senior Member
- Location
- New Brunswick, Canada!
I never saw men holding hands in Germany either, but it was common in Southern European countries. In this regard I didn't need any adjusting to North American habits since I agree with you on this one!
Old Salt
Senior Member
- Location
- New Brunswick, Canada!
It's not Millennials I am worried about, but Generation Z! The invention of cell phones has made them self absorbed, selfie-loving, out of contact with the real world, waiting for the "likes" to come in while counting followers, in response to something they posted on Instagram or Tik Tok! I've seen them on YouTube, tripping on curbs, falling into fountains, not aware of any possible dangers while they are glued to their cell phones! By the way, I would appreciate lots of "likes" to this post because I hope to become a seniors' influencer!
Neither do I
It rather sickens me
Lara
Friend of the Arts
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic Coast
I didn't say "only".
I said, "We lost 'a lot' of our brave masculine men on the battlefield."
How do you know they weren't brave when they got there?
That's rhetorical because I don't wish to argue with you.
Just please don't change my wording.
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From seadoug Young men are adapting to today's societal norms. the social norms are represented in the movies we see and other forms of seeing our heros. There are no John Waynes today, few westerns where honor wins. The whinning youtuber bantering police and the guy wanting to be like a woman fill our screens. Those are todays social norms.
I respectfully disagree with some of that. Men DO unite for a purpose. They fight in wars and excel at team sports. Women are catching up but by nature can be catty. One thing I have always admired about men is their ability to put personal differences aside to achieve a goal. Women haven't done that as well as men throughout history. IMHO.
Old Salt
Senior Member
- Location
- New Brunswick, Canada!
I think we are talking past each other, chic!. I am talking about mankind in general while you are talking about groups of men who had to face a common enemy and bonded and supported each other over it! I don't doubt their courage, I simply remember the vainglorious leaders (mostly male) who have been putting them into that position in the first place since the beginning of recorded time. Millions of husbands, fathers, sons wouldn't have died if they had fought in just wars only! Yes, we've had many admirable heroes but most were forced into heroics because of the egos and pride of the men in power! Cordially yours!
Jamala
Senior Member
- Location
- Butterfly from Herts/UK
In January 1916 the Military Service Act was passed in Britain. This imposed conscription on all single men aged between 18 and 41.
The Selective Draft Act of 1917 was signed by President Woodrow Wilson. The act gave the president the power to conscript men for military service. All men aged 21 to 30 were required to enlist for military service.
Most of these men were not big muscled guys, many homosexuals served, many sall build men, many overweight men,not all of them looked “masculine.”
Many went willingly to war, many were forced to go, many were brave, many were not. Many were stoic, many cried when they got to the battlefield and saw the destruction and suffering. They had no choice.
The Selective Draft Act of 1917 was signed by President Woodrow Wilson. The act gave the president the power to conscript men for military service. All men aged 21 to 30 were required to enlist for military service.
Most of these men were not big muscled guys, many homosexuals served, many sall build men, many overweight men,not all of them looked “masculine.”
Many went willingly to war, many were forced to go, many were brave, many were not. Many were stoic, many cried when they got to the battlefield and saw the destruction and suffering. They had no choice.
From the Book "The Things They Carried" by Tim O'Brian: he laments not having the Courage to cross the Canadian border to avoid the draft: "I was a coward. I went to war"
I knew many BRAVE Men in the Peace Movement. Just not the kind of brave you are used to. Men brave enough to say "Hell NO." Integrity enough to stand for what they believe. That's being a Man, also a Woman for that matter. Having the courage to say No.
Those were the men I knew and my husband, a vet of Korea, agreed.
PeppermintPatty
🐢. 🐳. 🐢
- Location
- Canada
Orange face man.
LOL!
PeppermintPatty
🐢. 🐳. 🐢
- Location
- Canada
I agree. Look at the outrage that happened when they started drafting men for the Vietnam war.
On October 15, 1969, hundreds of thousands of people took part in National Moratorium anti-war demonstrations across the United States;
There were many people opposed to being made to kill others due to a government decision. There’s an excellent movie about it but I forget what it’s called. At the end, in the courtroom , one man took his time listing off all the men who lost their lives due to it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_United_States_involvement_in_the_Vietnam_War
I was there. I was everywhere. Including demonstrations in Europe, I was there.
PeppermintPatty
🐢. 🐳. 🐢
- Location
- Canada
I figured you would be.
It’s a topic that comes up that probably confuses me more than any other topic about humanity. Having a husband who is ex military who strongly disapproves of those unwilling to fight for their country, has taught me a lot about this type of loyalty but deep within, it’s always felt foreign.
Oddly enough I AM one to fight for what I believe in independently but have a difficult time accepting team rivalry as in war. I’m so opposed to violence that I have a difficult time accepting war as an honourable choice. For many, it wasn’t a choice but something they were made to do. Unfortunately, even those who were fortunate enough to survive, are left tormented for life with little to no help from the same government who sent them.
Most decisions made by those in charge seem to always revolve around power and money . Is war not one of them? All the equipment made to kill humanity created employment and revenue but at what cost?
To divide and conquer seems to be humanity’s biggest downfall and oddly enough, even our religions teach this.
For me, it’s the most baffling part of humanity that I doubt I’ll ever understand.
MarkD
Keeper of the Hounds & Garden
- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area
Honestly I just don’t care. Is there a way all men should be? If so I guess “obedience” to that norm would have to be part of being a ‘real man’.
What concerns me more is whether men and women are losing their humanity. Excessive adherence to a masculinity norm or women obsessed with epitomizing the femininity norm may be missing something more important. Should we be claiming what is highest for human beings or checking the mirror to see if we are embodying the gender norm society says we should? Of course gender norms are about more than just looks. There are also ways to walk and talk and even character traits to be embodied. But I can’t believe role playing is what is most essential to our humanity.
What concerns me more is whether men and women are losing their humanity. Excessive adherence to a masculinity norm or women obsessed with epitomizing the femininity norm may be missing something more important. Should we be claiming what is highest for human beings or checking the mirror to see if we are embodying the gender norm society says we should? Of course gender norms are about more than just looks. There are also ways to walk and talk and even character traits to be embodied. But I can’t believe role playing is what is most essential to our humanity.
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Mr. Ed
Be what you is not what you what you ain’t
- Location
- Central NY
Do you think men are losing their masculinity?
There is a rise in gender preferences that include female to male and male to female, how do you classify? American view of masculinity might called a man's, man, no feelings of emotion, no tears or crying, stern father figure, works as a lumberjack or on an oil rig.Do you think mild-mannered, delicate, puny men are appreciated more today than in the past?
My father was a coward and narcissistic. He avoided parenthood and anything to do fatherhood. I did not learn anything manly from him or his actions except for his unquenchable need for public praise.
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MarkD
Keeper of the Hounds & Garden
- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area
Orange face man.
Not sure who you have in mind but he sounds like one of those metrosexuals one hears about. But i don’t really understand it. I like orange in my garden but not on my face. I just say no to make up.
bobcat
Well-known Member
- Location
- Northern Calif