School shooting in Madison, WI

HermitHogan said:
The idiot father bought his daughter the gun she used in the shooting for her 15th birthday!
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I thin k that reflects american gun culture rather than anything less

It certainly isnt something anyone would do in Australia (I guess unless members of a target shooting club) but is something other posters have mentioned similar before - how they used guns for hunting from teenage years, that sort of thing.

and if they were part of clay pigeon shooting clubs and that is norm where they live, then buying her a gun isnt as bad as it first seems.

I mean, I certainly wouldnt do it but I do think it needs to be seen in context.
 

I'm betting the phone caused her mental equilibrium to fail too.
I have a big old wise crow with glasses and his Bluetooth Keyboard in the front island so the kids might notice it walking home in the middle of the street on their phones with thumbs banging it. Maybe they get it sooner than later. So many now cannot shop, walk around or drive without
that phone, on the dash them staring at it. Maybe they are lost? The earbud and mic. You hearing, " you know what I'm saying"

I think this the entertainment 24/7's populations of the earth. Lost in their minds, somewhere, not here, in the room, block, towns. Plopping down $1000 To concert, stupid music, nearly naked singers, the crowd nearly naked. Kids going to school nearly naked. Strip minded.

Maybe the old Oak has a story, it standing there totally naked now.
 
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January said:
and maybe lots of things

Bit judgmental to jump to blaming the parents.
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Yes, and maybe that DAD was raping her on a regular basis...who KNOWS?

My experience and my knowledge of kids and watching parenting deteriorate, and the internet proliferate tells me it was:
Parental negligence and the internet. The parents have control over both IF they want to work to be in control of their kids.

On the OTHER hand, she could have had a brain tumor they didn't know about. Am sure an autopsy will show.
 
HermitHogan said:
In her manifesto, which she called "War Against Humanity," Natalie Rupnow wrote that she had "grown to hate people and society" and called her parents "scum."

She also wrote that she acquired weapons "by lies and manipulation, and my father's stupidity" and described wanting to die by suicide, but feeling like carrying out a shooting was "better for evolution rather than just one stupid boring suicide."

How does a 15 year old girl become that jaded and disillusioned with the world? :unsure:
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Her dad looks a tad "scummy" to me; certainly not a dad to be proud of by his personal presentation; how I respect people is how they respect others as well as themselves. May be her parents were scum to her, didn't deserve respect?

I can see how she could write she had: "grown to hate people and society". Just LOOK at what kids see day to day in our society: rudeness, hate, arguing, disrespect for law enforcement and authority, shamed for being patriotic, choosing "race" identity over "National" identity - that of being an American; everyone calling someone who is homosexual or transgender or a cross-dresser "normal" i.e. presenting sexual deviations as "normal"; kids being given hormones by ADULTS at early ages when the kid just questions their sexuality (not to mention normal kids question everything at some point, at every step - and parents need not take each to heart)! She hates people and society because society has become a damn free for all and there is no leadership in morality any more! I get upset when I am sitting in a restaurant and every third word I hear is the "f" word out of (supposed) adults of 45. I get upset when I see commercials that show a grade school kid being picked up in a LESS than $80,000. BMW, showing the kid ASHAMED of a parent having the audacity to pick him up in a paid for car, that is a regular family car. I get disgusted at people and society that place a breast job or nose job for their 15-16 year old as more important for her self esteem than her DIRECTION and VALUES as a human being.

Sigh.
I get upset because this is personal. I was one of those very ANGRY young teens. I UNDERSTAND where this girl is coming from. She was likely teased and bullied at SCHOOL and neglected and abused at home. She had no place to turn, that is what people who commit suicide do NOT have: a visible means of escaping the pain coming from within.

No: she didn't need a GUN for her 15th birthday; she needed a TRUSTWORTHY FRIEND or a GOOD PARENT in HER harsh, harsh world.

Her Dad buying her a gun is but a symptom of HIS stupidity and HIS inability to parent: that is neglect and child abuse.
 
Maybe in many cases the parents are to blame in some way. But not always.

I used to get bullied bad, esp. on the school bus. I saw a woman recently in a store working checkout, who picked out a large size bubblegum wad some punk older kid stuck in my hair for my humiliation. Took a long time.
When she saw my name on my payment card, she stopped looked at me and said "oh my, do you remember back when ...?" She said "those kids who rode our bus were horrible. She's not wrong.

I used to come home upset a lot, mom usually said something like "oh that's just how kids are, their mean, you just have to ignore them" or similar. Dad just went outside to the shop, usually. Didn't want to get involved.

One time I'd had enough, was in third grade I think. Dad left for work, Mom was in the bathroom. I went to the gun cabinet and found his small pistol, was looking through trying to figure out which bullets I needed for that gun, and Mom caught me...

Prob. a good thing I was caught. Can you imagine what kind of stink it would have caused in 1972/73?
And it would not have been my parents fault. But I certainly had enough of the bullying. So yeah, I do understand why kids or teens get that idea. Doesn't make it right in any case.
 
CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
Her dad looks a tad "scummy" to me; certainly not a dad to be proud of by his personal presentation; how I respect people is how they respect others as well as themselves. May be her parents were scum to her, didn't deserve respect?

I can see how she could write she had: "grown to hate people and society". Just LOOK at what kids see day to day in our society: rudeness, hate, arguing, disrespect for law enforcement and authority, shamed for being patriotic, choosing "race" identity over "National" identity - that of being an American; everyone calling someone who is homosexual or transgender or a cross-dresser "normal" i.e. presenting sexual deviations as "normal"; kids being given hormones by ADULTS at early ages when the kid just questions their sexuality (not to mention normal kids question everything at some point, at every step - and parents need not take each to heart)! She hates people and society because society has become a damn free for all and there is no leadership in morality any more! I get upset when I am sitting in a restaurant and every third word I hear is the "f" word out of (supposed) adults of 45. I get upset when I see commercials that show a grade school kid being picked up in a LESS than $80,000. BMW, showing the kid ASHAMED of a parent having the audacity to pick him up in a paid for car, that is a regular family car. I get disgusted at people and society that place a breast job or nose job for their 15-16 year old as more important for her self esteem than her DIRECTION and VALUES as a human being.

Sigh.
I get upset because this is personal. I was one of those very ANGRY young teens. I UNDERSTAND where this girl is coming from. She was likely teased and bullied at SCHOOL and neglected and abused at home. She had no place to turn, that is what people who commit suicide do NOT have: a visible means of escaping the pain coming from within.

No: she didn't need a GUN for her 15th birthday; she needed a TRUSTWORTHY FRIEND or a GOOD PARENT in HER harsh, harsh world.

Her Dad buying her a gun is but a symptom of HIS stupidity and HIS inability to parent: that is neglect and child abuse.
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Phew, there's nothing quite like a focused, lengthy and considered evaluation of the relevant information as it comes to light...
Well nothing except a good rant.😳
 
spookycat said:
Doesn't make it right in any case.
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No of course it does NOT make it right.

And, "There but for the grace of God go I..."

Hence: some posts where I discuss what happens to children's developing brains, brains which are exposed to experiences/things no developing brain needs to be exposed to before crystallization, further development (that allows reasons for things). Those exposures do cause excretion of chemicals (one being cortisol) and that chemical exposure - among others - does change the way a brain develops.
Lots of good, hard studies on such; not just internet speculations. She may have been exposed to marijuana, which could also have been some poor choices her parents exposed her to.

If she were born a killer, or a threat, am sure it would have been noted much sooner.
Will be interesting to see what teachers, etc come up with at trial of her parents.
 
Rakaia said:
Phew, there's nothing quite like a focused, lengthy and considered evaluation of the relevant information as it comes to light...
Well nothing except a good rant.😳
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You classify as a "rant". You have a right to do so.
I am a passionate advocate regarding children's rights to have competent parenting and safety both at home, and at school associated encounters.
But when one randomly calls this just a "rant" it reveals a careless attitude.
 
I guess I'm the only one that finds the father rather good looking. He reminds me a little of Donald Sutherland when he was young. Of course the dog on his shoulder makes me think he's not all that bad. Maybe we'll find out more about him and the family dynamic in time.

What ever those parents did wrong, they're suffering the worst punishment on earth right now.
 
CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
What is the "American gun culture"? Please explain what it means to you?
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What country are you a citizen of, CooCooforCoCoPuffs? That phrase is certainly understood by Canadians. The average adult in the UK, Europe, Australia, or New Zealand, for example would understand the phrase.

Sure, there are hunters and target shooters up here. Yes, there are some dangerous, violent criminals in Canada. It's pretty rare, but people do get injured or murdered with guns in this country. But hand guns are owned by f-a-a-r fewer people here, and assault rifles are owned by extremely few. The per-capita murder rate is lower in this country. Mass murders and school shootings are a much more shocking news item here, because far less common than in the U.S.

Not implying you, CCfCCP, are part of the pattern that gives meaning to that phrase. But it means something.
 
CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
... Hence: some posts where I discuss what happens to children's developing brains, brains which are exposed to experiences/things no developing brain needs to be exposed to before crystallization, further development (that allows reasons for things). Those exposures do cause excretion of chemicals (one being cortisol) and that chemical exposure - among others - does change the way a brain develops.
Lots of good, hard studies on such; not just internet speculations. She may have been exposed to marijuana, which could also have been some poor choices her parents exposed her to. ...
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You're right. I read that she was in therapy. If that's true (or even if it's not), I can almost guarantee you that she was on antidepressants. Many of those types of drugs cause a young person to engage in psychotic behavior. Those drugs should not be use by people under 25 years old. Just about all of these types of shootings have occurred when the shooter was taking prescription antidepressants.
 
If the parent gave a 15-year-old child a simi automatic 9mm handgun for a 15 birthday present then that parents should go to prison.
Taking them to Skeet shooting at a safe range, that's one thing but shooting with homes within 1/4 mile is a really bad mental break off.
These are bad types of people. Lockups please. Another drug family's hell tossed at us. I can understand hunting with a pellit rifle in a safe field way from family's home. Figure the Parabolic range of a pellet rifle at around a 1/4 of a mile.

There are common sense ways to teach a kid firearm safety and Stupid and no Fix Fo-stupid. its fo-evah!

I see this as Father will not have to send kid to college and those costs. Thats all.
 
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CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
Why are parents so BLIND to what is going on in THEIR kid's lives?
Why can't they READ THEIR children's minds, eyes, body language, lack of friends or weirdo friends, and behaviors?
What is wrong with PARENTS?!!
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Because teenagers lie and are protective of their secrets and their pain. I certainly didn't tell my mother much of anything at that age, mostly because I didn't want the inevitable lecture even if all I was wondering about was a 'casual' question.
 
Debrah N. said:
Because teenagers lie and are protective of their secrets and their pain. I certainly didn't tell my mother much of anything at that age, mostly because I didn't want the inevitable lecture even if all I was wondering about was a 'casual' question.
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Perhaps you had friends, family, aunts/uncles who you felt safe confiding in...some sort of outets; but this girl's circumstances are not known totally and never will be, she took it to the grave of many.

But I still contend something is WRONG with the parents; especially as evidenced by the alleged declarations she wrote.
 
CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
Perhaps you had friends, family, aunts/uncles who you felt safe confiding in...some sort of outets; but this girl's circumstances are not known totally and never will be, she took it to the grave of many.

But I still contend something is WRONG with the parents; especially as evidenced by the alleged declarations she wrote.
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The friends that I had to confide in were the same ones that I was getting in trouble with so not much help there. And my mom was a responsible woman who'd had to raise her kids by herself because my dad skipped out when we were very young. Since we don't know this entire story, it's not really fair to blame the parents. We also don't know if she was being bullied at school and that can be devastating to teenagers. Other teens can be brutal. Or she could have been developing some sort of personality disorder that might have explained why she did what she did.
 
Debrah N. said:
The friends that I had to confide in were the same ones that I was getting in trouble with so not much help there. And my mom was a responsible woman who'd had to raise her kids by herself because my dad skipped out when we were very young. Since we don't know this entire story, it's not really fair to blame the parents. We also don't know if she was being bullied at school and that can be devastating to teenagers. Other teens can be brutal. Or she could have been developing some sort of personality disorder that might have explained why she did what she did.
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Just my take on it from what info I have learned, studied in depth, and my experience with how life seems to work or not work for families.
Am not talking about your mother. I did mention several alternatives such as: a developing brain tumor.
 
CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
Who else is to blame, THEY raised her.
They are accountable for raising a 15 yo that kills people!
She wasn't even 17 or 21; she was FIFTEEN.
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Yes I know she was 15 - and parents of 15 year olds aren't with them all the time nor can they control everything they do

Good parents can still have teenagers who make poor decisions and go off the rails etc

I would think your great experience and knowledge would have given you more understanding and empathy of that.
 
January said:
Yes I know she was 15 - and parents of 15 year olds aren't with them all the time nor can they control everything they do

Good parents can still have teenagers who make poor decisions and go off the rails etc

I would think your great experience and knowledge would have given you more understanding and empathy of that.
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Of course a kid with GOOD parents can "go off the rails". However, if you do research the backgrounds of most mass shooters who were young, you will more likely find a common thread of a disturbed upbringing, than not.

No need to get snarky with me.
 

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