At least 13 dead, and many missing in TX flooding
- Thread starter againstthegrain
- Start date
I thought the same thing!
JustDave
Well-known Member
There is some learning to take from this as well as grieving.
Watching the Texas Game Wardens news conference. They have 300 officers on the site and were among the first responders. They had numerous drone teams, equipment teams, dog search team, etc.
It is sad that the spokesperson had to keep repeating, to the reporters questions about cause and prevention, that their focus was on recovering all the bodies and removing debris that could pose an additional threat when heavy rains hit again. Questions about anything else should be asked and addressed later after all bodies are recovered and the needs of those effected in the community, had been addressed. It wasn't his agencies place and certainly not the time for such questions, but those hacks posing as journalist, just kept at it. It makes me sick!
It is sad that the spokesperson had to keep repeating, to the reporters questions about cause and prevention, that their focus was on recovering all the bodies and removing debris that could pose an additional threat when heavy rains hit again. Questions about anything else should be asked and addressed later after all bodies are recovered and the needs of those effected in the community, had been addressed. It wasn't his agencies place and certainly not the time for such questions, but those hacks posing as journalist, just kept at it. It makes me sick!
But on the other hand, while everyone's attention is on this tragedy, it is good to hear about the alerts and timing and cause and prevention, because this is an education opportunity for other people who might ever be in the same situation (which is probably a lot more of us than we realize, and for all we know, could be going to happen locally today to some of us).
Personally, now I have learned that there are levels of flash flood warnings. I knew that about tornado watch versus warning, but I sometimes get flash flood alerts on my phone and I just ignore them. Now I will pay attention whether they are just a 'watch' or an actual 'warning'. Though I don't think where I live is at any risk, but maybe some of the roads on the way to the grocery store might be.
Here is a link to a map that will show the elevation changes around Kerrville. Note that the elevation in a greater part of Kerrville is less than 20 feet above the river. This will help understand why 26 feet of water, did so much damage. The Guadalupe River is a major recreational and camping area and some residents accept the risk of living close. They could have dealt with 10 feet, but 26 maybe 30 in places, reached far beyond the banks. Remember the rain wasn't just falling on the river, it was falling in the entire area and even high places had water rushing at dangerous levels. 7 inches a minute isn't something anyone could have guessed would happen.
The weather is something that is difficult to prepare for, other than precautions based on history.
Guadalupe River topographic map, elevation, terrain
The weather is something that is difficult to prepare for, other than precautions based on history.
Guadalupe River topographic map, elevation, terrain
hollydolly
SF VIP
- Location
- London England
yes but will lessons be learned Doug...?..They always say that here, but rarely does anything change..I saw on the news today that residents of the Hill Country have "flood warning fatigue". Also, that none of the campers were allowed cell phones, which may have issued warning alerts.
There will be many lessons learned from this. It is just tragic that so many people had to die for them to be learned.
Yes, but how many times do the authorities on the scene, have to remind reporters that they know the cause and they know it wasn't any agencies or groups fault. Also that the governor has a committee looking into every aspect of this tragedy. Wait for that report, after a comprehensive investigation is finished. Reporters asking the game wardens (first responders) to make statements they could use for sensational news and political spin, is just wrong. What I saw and read within in hours of this disaster, was speculation, outright false info, and self proclaimed experts jumping to conclusions.
Rest assured that various Texas Hill Country agencies, will have meeting on how to better prepare. What lessons they may have learned will be available for anyone interested. Jumping to early conclusions, because of public interest span, doesn't justify it happening.
I realize I am more companionate about this tragedy, because it is the area all sides of my family settled in the early and mid 1800s. That included the American Indian side that escaped into Texas, while on their way to Oklahoma, during the great relocation of indigenous people. I left that area in my late teens because of family and friends tragedy, both weather related and accidental. Growing up with tornados, and flash floods, had me moving away.
I once enjoyed camping and tubing the Guadalupe and San Saba, so I understand the draw. It was once a beautiful area and hopefully it will rebuild.
I have no idea what lessons will be learned, but I do know those losing family and friends will carry scars for life.
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JustBonee
SF VIP
- Location
- Texas Gulf Coast
To add to your informative post, and the map. …. I’m sure there will be a documentary made of this freak event, and explainations of the terrain it hit.
Last night I stumbled upon a local meteorologist giving a 20 minute detailed account of how this monster storm became what it was.
It started with the normal heavy storms training from the west over that area. That had been happening for a couple days. …and it was being monitored.
THEN …. Tropical Storm Barry, which was considered at its end in Mexico, was still in the atmosphere, and heading north.
It found its fuel in the storms over the Texas Hill Country.
It created a rare super cell. ….that super cell started churning and made a funnel that was attracted to the river below.
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One news commentator discussed how sudden and how extreme this was. That's probably wby they call them flash floods. She said normally, that part of the river (near Camp Mystic) is a calm little trickle of a stream, a few inches deep, easy to wade in. Within minutes, a huge wall of water was there, with tremendous speed and force. She said the force of the water was stronger than Niagara Falls water going over the edge!
It was enough to sweep away heavy vehicles and houses!
We've got our daily thunderstorm going on right now, very dark skies, lots of thunder and lightning, heavy rain. Happens nearly every day in the summertime. Some areas of MD do get flash floods, but fortunately not here.
It was enough to sweep away heavy vehicles and houses!
We've got our daily thunderstorm going on right now, very dark skies, lots of thunder and lightning, heavy rain. Happens nearly every day in the summertime. Some areas of MD do get flash floods, but fortunately not here.
David777
Well-known Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley
My parents (now passed) had retired in the Canyon Lake reservoir area down stream on the Guadalupe.
When strong storms happen that have never in historic times occurred, many ordinary people that live in such places may be taken by surprise. In this case, one ought not solely blame authorities for not having physically done more beforehand. This is more of a general societal issue of ignoring extreme events they've never seen that needs to be addressed more seriously. Society does not $$$ expensively prepare for unexpected, never forecasted for weather events. However, nature does whatever nature does, and that is not always something even experts can forecast. Here in California, that plays out repeatedly with high wind wildfire tragedies where many choose to ignore warnings until it happens to them.
Instead, individuals that visit such areas close to rivers need to always be aware of what peak floods might do. Likewise in hurricane shore regions. Those in authority do need to provide information to residents that such flash floods are always possible. So individuals near such rivers need to have plans in place to escape quickly, even in the middle of dark nights. Instead, at night, there is a tendency of many sleepy people to roll over and ignore whatever unless they are aware such dangers are possible. I'll predict nationally, siren systems will be set up along the Guadalupe River and also in other flash flood prone river basins.
People should be aware that they live in regions where rare heavy thunderstorms may just sit atop an area and dump more rain than anyone has ever experienced. That in such regions, if they visit rivers with large drainage basins, they are in danger zones. That such rains may not be raining much locally where they are at but could be say 30 miles upstream. Same sort of thing happened in Colorado in 2013 and now they are more prepared. But probably not so in distant states where similar events are possible because it is human nature not to prepare for what is rare, never before experienced, even though experts may warn whatever is possible.
https://coloradonewsline.com/2023/09/05/almost-unimaginable-the-2013-colorado-flood-10-years-later/
When strong storms happen that have never in historic times occurred, many ordinary people that live in such places may be taken by surprise. In this case, one ought not solely blame authorities for not having physically done more beforehand. This is more of a general societal issue of ignoring extreme events they've never seen that needs to be addressed more seriously. Society does not $$$ expensively prepare for unexpected, never forecasted for weather events. However, nature does whatever nature does, and that is not always something even experts can forecast. Here in California, that plays out repeatedly with high wind wildfire tragedies where many choose to ignore warnings until it happens to them.
Instead, individuals that visit such areas close to rivers need to always be aware of what peak floods might do. Likewise in hurricane shore regions. Those in authority do need to provide information to residents that such flash floods are always possible. So individuals near such rivers need to have plans in place to escape quickly, even in the middle of dark nights. Instead, at night, there is a tendency of many sleepy people to roll over and ignore whatever unless they are aware such dangers are possible. I'll predict nationally, siren systems will be set up along the Guadalupe River and also in other flash flood prone river basins.
People should be aware that they live in regions where rare heavy thunderstorms may just sit atop an area and dump more rain than anyone has ever experienced. That in such regions, if they visit rivers with large drainage basins, they are in danger zones. That such rains may not be raining much locally where they are at but could be say 30 miles upstream. Same sort of thing happened in Colorado in 2013 and now they are more prepared. But probably not so in distant states where similar events are possible because it is human nature not to prepare for what is rare, never before experienced, even though experts may warn whatever is possible.
https://coloradonewsline.com/2023/09/05/almost-unimaginable-the-2013-colorado-flood-10-years-later/
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Thank you for making it clear what happened and why it wasn't a failure of any agency. I see you are on the Texas Gulf coast and know about Texas weather. It is hard to describe those heavy Texas rains and those Texas flashfloods are even harder to describe, but this rare creation of a super cell, is even hard for me to imagine. 7 inches of water per minute, is just unreal.
RedAlert76
Member
- Location
- Ashland Ks
No they did not make it . They were older and had grown kids
RadishRose
SF VIP
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
I'm sorry to learn that your daughter lost her friends; may they rest in peace and may your daughter receive comfort
MACKTEXAS
Senior Member
From today's news conference, I gather the State of Texas will fund sirens if the counties impacted by this event don't have funds for them. Cell phone alerts are not a good method to notify people of weather emergencies - whether areas in flood zones or other, such as tornadoes. My community has no sirens; only phone alerts. Many people turn cell phones off at night, or set them on "do not disturb", and do not have landlines.
againstthegrain
Senior Member
- Location
- Sun Valley, ID
111 dead, 173 missing persons. 7/9/25
Sadly it's highly likely the total number of dead is going to be at least double the current number. I guess most importantly now is finding as many victims as possible.
Sadly it's highly likely the total number of dead is going to be at least double the current number. I guess most importantly now is finding as many victims as possible.
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Watching the Kerrville police chief tell the stories of the amazing rescue and how when the rains hit, the police had officers driving up and down streets sounding their sirens and yelling on their PA systems. Their early warning and heroic rescue efforts, saved thousands.
Some people they woke up joined in the efforts to evacuate older residents. Law enforcement, first responders, and many volunteers, responded early and saved lives.
When the Kerrville sheriff finished his speech with heavy emphasis on their focus of finding all the bodies and getting closure for families, he took questions. It made me angry that one young woman reporter asked what future change for early response, they would make. The sheriff said her question was important, but now was not the time and place. I doubt this reporter listened to what he said. If so she is either stupid or has no compassion, because she repeated her question with different wording.
It amazes me that reporters can listen to details of all that was done, giving early warning, stories of others risking their lives, an amazing community response, and then asked what law enforcement will do to improve in the future when they have made it clear over and over that their focus is on the day at hand, giving families closure and seeing resources are available to all that need it. Someone needs to slap the stupid off these hack reporters, then slap some respect on them.
Some people they woke up joined in the efforts to evacuate older residents. Law enforcement, first responders, and many volunteers, responded early and saved lives.
When the Kerrville sheriff finished his speech with heavy emphasis on their focus of finding all the bodies and getting closure for families, he took questions. It made me angry that one young woman reporter asked what future change for early response, they would make. The sheriff said her question was important, but now was not the time and place. I doubt this reporter listened to what he said. If so she is either stupid or has no compassion, because she repeated her question with different wording.
It amazes me that reporters can listen to details of all that was done, giving early warning, stories of others risking their lives, an amazing community response, and then asked what law enforcement will do to improve in the future when they have made it clear over and over that their focus is on the day at hand, giving families closure and seeing resources are available to all that need it. Someone needs to slap the stupid off these hack reporters, then slap some respect on them.
Teacher Terry
Well-known Member
In addition, they had the youngest girls in the cabins closest to the river when it should’ve been the opposite. That camp had been in the family for generations and the owner should have had a weather radio in his bedroom so he could wake up and evacuate the camp if necessary.
I know he died, which is a shame, but his negligence led to the deaths of many of those kids in his care. The owner also should’ve known better than to try and get in a car with some of the girls and drive away. Being raised there he should’ve known that your only hope is to get to higher ground. I would guess this is the end of the camp because I can’t imagine anyone being willing to send their kids there in the future.
JustBonee
SF VIP
- Location
- Texas Gulf Coast
I tend to feel it is the end too … the talk of now installing weather sirens along the banks there seems a little too late, plus sirens are confusing to people not familiar with them.
Take San Marcos, Texas, and their emergency weather sirens:
Emergency sirens blared in San Marcos amid severe weather
From my personal experience with flooding in Nebraska is that the emergency radio was the best way for my remote-ish location. We were already having a spring flood and I'd packed a potential go-bag, but then the emergency radio activated itself and said a levee had broken and a 5 ft wall of water was coming and people should leave low lying areas.
If the sirens in the local town had gone off I would probably have thought it was just the slow spring flood that I knew about (and was not expected to reach my property), and/or since it was sunny I would have thought it was siren-testing, and that's assuming I could hear it at all because that depended a bit on the direction of the wind and what might be running in my house.
It's really hard to fathom the Mystic Camp not having an emergency weather radio.
If the sirens in the local town had gone off I would probably have thought it was just the slow spring flood that I knew about (and was not expected to reach my property), and/or since it was sunny I would have thought it was siren-testing, and that's assuming I could hear it at all because that depended a bit on the direction of the wind and what might be running in my house.
It's really hard to fathom the Mystic Camp not having an emergency weather radio.
againstthegrain
Senior Member
- Location
- Sun Valley, ID
I don't know why you expect everyone to have the same worldview as you do.
I don't! Reporters disrespecting those officials that have spoken in details about tragedies, isn't a worldview or opinion. If your view is it is fine for reporters to be disrespectful, then so be it. I doubt we agree on anything. I tend to not rush to judgement and assign fault when tragedy occurs.
You seem to be one that likes to assign fault when tragedy occurs and use the internet for your info. This is just a seniors forum so it doesn't make any difference what our viewpoints are.
I see you are the thread starter and should direct the thread, so I will leave this one. Sorry to disrupt your thread.
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MACKTEXAS
Senior Member
There's an evening news story awhile ago of a flash flood in Ruidoso, NM similar to the one in Texas Hill Country. Hopefully not as many people impacted.
from AP News
from AP News
againstthegrain
Senior Member
- Location
- Sun Valley, ID