What is Feminism?

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Traveler said:
Shalimar, please read post #91. THAT is what I'm talking about when I say outrageous, hated filled, statements.
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We are talking at cross purposes here. I may not agree with these statements, but I am not willing to tar and feather a whole movement, just as I would not have condemned the Civil Right’s Movement for the statements made by some Black Panthers.

Every movement, religious and secular, has its share of strident opinions, particularly in a democracy. If I wished, I could visit the Red Pill sites, and list any number of “outrageous, hate filled, statements.” Would these comments be representative of men as a whole? No, they would not. Men are not the enemy, they are my brothers. Together, we work for equality for all. That is my reality, and the reality of my millennial family.
 

The "original" post was, "What is Feminism".

Quite an open ended questions, and I didn't see anywhere in that question that only answers from women were acceptable, or only answers from like minded individuals were acceptable.

No one has cornered the market in "opinions", unless that too has changed. Everyone has them and is entitled to them. What something is or isn't will vary as much as there are grains of sand.

I've made my "opinion" known and just as there are as many that will disagree with it, there are just as many that WILL agree with it.

Feminism has, or had, depending on your opinion an extremely important role in furthering the rights and equality of not only women but of society as a whole. Given that equalities will always equal some inequality because well we are different genders. For example women will have employment rights surrounding maternity leave that men won't...that's obviously acceptable and no one would ever think otherwise.

But, as the "equality" scope narrows, and it has, the agenda has changed.

If it's a Radical Minority spewing the male hating rhetoric, then it's a very large and vocal minority with some very influential leaders. Can you IMAGINE the hue and cry, the protests, the pitchfork parties if even ONE influential male had made just ONE similiar disparaging remark towards women? These remarks not only define the character of the person making them, they define what they stand for and believe. That is true of anyone.

As I said before, hate disguised as anything is still hate and if it's condoned (silence is condoning it) it will spread and flourish. We don't have to look too far back in history to see some very disturbing and horrific examples of this. Condoning it makes you a part of it.

So if true Feminism is being the champion of the underdog, equality and fairness for all, coming to the aid of your fellow man (that term means everyone just like anything else with "man" in it, i.e. human, humanity, mankind) etc etc, isn't that just being a civilized, caring, compassionate human being? Why then does that even need a label?

This is not the 18, 19 or 20th Century. No matter how hard you try you can't change "history", you can only learn from it and not make the same mistakes. The perverted hope of some to invoke change by the overpowering and domination of "men" and punish them for what "they did" is ludicrous and abhorent. Those individuals are in dire need professional mental healthcare.

Anyway, that is my "opinion" on the topic at hand and that is really is it from me.

Btw I believe this is an "open" forum so you should expect and accept differences of opinions when you fish for answers to open ended and controversial questions. If you're not willing to then perhaps you should be posting in forums where you know your audience.

Again, just my opinion.
 
Shalimar said:
We are talking at cross purposes here. I may not agree with these statements, but I am not willing to tar and feather a whole movement, just as I would not have condemned the Civil Right’s Movement for the statements made by some Black Panthers.
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The statements I quoted in POST # 91 are hardly representative of a splinter group like the Black Panthers. The statements posted in #91 are the very foundation of feminism.

It does, indeed, speak volumes about your feminist stance, when you failed to condemn those venomous man-hating remarks. I had naively hoped that you, above all people, would condemn such toxicity. As a result, I am more convinced then ever that no woman is ever going to admit that a cancer grows within the body of feminism.
 

James said:
The "original" post was, "What is Feminism".

Quite an open ended questions, and I didn't see anywhere in that question that only answers from women were acceptable, or only answers from like minded individuals were acceptable.

No one has cornered the market in "opinions", unless that too has changed. Everyone has them and is entitled to them. What something is or isn't will vary as much as there are grains of sand.

I've made my "opinion" known and just as there are as many that will disagree with it, there are just as many that WILL agree with it.

Feminism has, or had, depending on your opinion an extremely important role in furthering the rights and equality of not only women but of society as a whole. Given that equalities will always equal some inequality because well we are different genders. For example women will have employment rights surrounding maternity leave that men won't...that's obviously acceptable and no one would ever think otherwise.

But, as the "equality" scope narrows, and it has, the agenda has changed.

If it's a Radical Minority spewing the male hating rhetoric, then it's a very large and vocal minority with some very influential leaders.

As I said before, hate disguised as anything is still hate and if it's condoned (silence is condoning it) it will spread and flourish. We don't have to look too far back in history to see some very disturbing and horrific examples of this. Condoning it makes you a part of it.

So if true Feminism is being the champion of the underdog, equality and fairness for all, coming to the aid of your fellow man (that term means everyone just like anything else with "man" in it, i.e. human, humanity, mankind) etc etc, isn't that just being a civilized, caring, compassionate human being? Why then does that even need a label?

This is not the 18, 19 or 20th Century. No matter how hard you try you can't change "history", you can only learn from it and not make the same mistakes. The perverted hope of some to invoke change by the overpowering and domination of "men" and punish them for what "they did" is ludicrous and abhorent.

Anyway, that is my "opinion" on the topic at hand and that is really is it from me.

Btw I believe this is an "open" forum so you should expect and accept differences of opinions when you fish for answers to open ended and controversial questions. If you're not willing to then perhaps you should be posting in forums where you know your audience.

Again, just my opinion.
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I get what you're saying, James, and I agree with much of what you've said.

However, and this is very important, there are some opinions here that are using criticism of feminism as a disguise for really hating just about all women. And anyone can know this from other threads that include the topic of men vs. women. Opinions might differ, but that's mine.
 
Traveler said:
The statements I quoted in POST # 91 are hardly representative of a splinter group like the Black Panthers. The statements posted in #91 are the very foundation of feminism.

It does, indeed, speak volumes about your feminist stance, when you failed to condemn those venomous man-hating remarks. I had naively hoped that you, above all people, would condemn such toxicity. As a result, I am more convinced then ever that no woman is ever going to admit that a cancer grows within the body of feminism.
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How sad that my refusal to totally comply with your position has resulted in such a post. As for “my feminist stance” u pick and choose what that means, completely ignoring the fact that this feminist devotes her life to counseling people in pain, the majority of whom are male vets suffering from crippling PTSD. I condemn hatred of all kinds, I am in the compassion

business, after all, but I dispute your position that the foundation of feminism is comprised of toxic people. Nor do I accept your attempt to categorise all women in this matter. All major movements contain toxic elements, such is the varied nature of human beings. Still, I am not your enemy, and I wish you peace. Namaste.
 
I don't agree with all of the quotes in #91, but I find some of them difficult to argue with.

I agree with Steinem's quote about marriage benefiting men while being single is more beneficial to women. It's been proved by medical science that married men live longer than single men, but for women the inverse is true.

ETA: One of the wonderful facets of the feminist movement is its egalitarianism. There were no leaders, no presidents, no chairmen, no spokespersons whose voices were more important than the rank and file. To gather and then attribute any set of quotations to the leadership of the feminist movement is untrue on its very face.
 
Smiling Jane said:
I don't agree with all of the quotes in #91, but I find some of them difficult to argue with.

I agree with Steinem's quote about marriage benefiting men while being single is more beneficial to women. It's been proved by medical science that married men live longer than single men, but for women the inverse is true.

ETA: One of the wonderful facets of the feminist movement is its egalitarianism. There were no leaders, no presidents, no chairmen, no spokespersons whose voices were more important than the rank and file. To gather and then attribute any set of quotations to the leadership of the feminist movement is untrue on its very face.
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Exactly.
 
Smiling Jane said:
To gather and then attribute any set of quotations to the leadership of the feminist movement is untrue on its very face.
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Huh ? Say what ? The more I read the above sentence, the less sense it makes. Think about what you are trying to say. Calm down, be less emotional and try to be rational. Right now,I haven't the foggiest idea of what in the world you are trying to say.
 
Traveler said:
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Huh ? Say what ? The more I read the above sentence, the less sense it makes. Think about what you are trying to say. Calm down, be less emotional and try to be rational. Right now,I haven't the foggiest idea of what in the world you are trying to say.
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Take your own advice to calm down, be less emotional and try to be rational. You may figure it out eventually.
 
Olivia said:
I get what you're saying, James, and I agree with much of what you've said.

However, and this is very important, there are some opinions here that are using criticism of feminism as a disguise for really hating just about all women. And anyone can know this from other threads that include the topic of men vs. women. Opinions might differ, but that's mine.
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I try very hard to stay out of these discussions but I just have to say, "brava."
 
Smiling Jane said:
Take your own advice to calm down, be less emotional and try to be rational. You may figure it out eventually.
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Since the dawn of time men have been trying to understand the female psyche. I doubt that I will fair any better than my forefathers.
Jane, even you, who wrote that sentence can't explain it.
 
I think this thread has devolved into genderbait, in an atmosphere of “guilty * how do you plead,” civil debate is impossible. Pity. Out of honest, respectful discussion comes knowlege, if not always understanding. I still contend that there are far more differences within the sexes than between them. This becomes particularly apparent when people are emotionally broken.
 
Traveler said:
Since the dawn of time men have been trying to understand the female psyche. I doubt that I will fair any better than my forefathers.
Jane, even you, who wrote that sentence can't explain it.
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Most men have evolved since the dawn of time. Some apparently haven't.
 
Smiling Jane said:
Isn't it a shame that the unevolved tend to be so outspoken? Listen to me. Listen to me. Waaa. Waaa. Listen to me. I'm more important than you are. Listen to me.
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Being highly controversial is a good way to get attention. And I have to admit, he's succeeding in that.
 
Smiling Jane said:
In the preceding sentence, I explained there is no feminist leadership. No leadership means all quotes attributed to "leaders" are at best specious.
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A very neat way to escape acknowledging there is something extremely bizarre happening within the ranks of feminism.
 

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