What is Feminism?

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Traveler, I don't accept anything as Gospel. I don't even accept Gospel as Gospel. But Wikipedia comes a lot closer to objective truth than all your (yes, it is angry) ranting on this subject.
 

Sunny said:
Traveler, I don't accept anything as Gospel. I don't even accept Gospel as Gospel. But Wikipedia comes a lot closer to objective truth than all your (yes, it is angry) ranting on this subject.
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(Laughing) Angry AND ranting ? Thank you, Sunny. Best laugh I've had in awhile.
 
James said:
Yes I agree that's what feminism "was" and to many women, including my wife who was the first female Police Officer {you wouldn't believe what she went through} in her office, still is.

However the radicalized and extreme version of 21st Century Feminism has veered from this messaging and is more about exerting dominance, superiority and discrimination with a dusting of yesterdays "feminism" so that it won't be challenged.

As my wife said, "It's no longer about equality. Its about making men feel the inequality that women once felt".
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You're right James and your wife must have gone through a lot in her field but looks like a smart woman who sees what "feminism" has become. I had a group of friends and we all went jogging together and one of them was an angry man hater. She called herself a feminist but she just wanted to dominate men and criticize them and even had a boyfriend for a while that she abused in public. My friends use to roll their eyes at some of the things she said she was a fanatic and we finally told her what we thought about her constant ranting

Sure enough she became pissed off and refused to even hear what we had to say. She was as mad at us as she was at men. I told her one day that I didn't want anything to do with her because of her psychotic rants and haven't been around her since. A couple of my other friends joined me and we are happier now. She's not the only female I've known with that attitude. I don't call myself a feminist but I believe in equal rights for women and the strong ones can have equal rights without playing the victim card or having to degrade men to make themselves feel better. Some women manipulate men terribly. There are a lot of good men around who should not be treated like dirt
 

Stormy said:
You're right James and your wife must have gone through a lot in her field but looks like a smart woman who sees what "feminism" has become. I had a group of friends and we all went jogging together and one of them was an angry man hater. She called herself a feminist but she just wanted to dominate men and criticize them and even had a boyfriend for a while that she abused in public. My friends use to roll their eyes at some of the things she said she was a fanatic and we finally told her what we thought about her constant ranting

Sure enough she became pissed off and refused to even hear what we had to say. She was as mad at us as she was at men. I told her one day that I didn't want anything to do with her because of her psychotic rants and haven't been around her since. A couple of my other friends joined me and we are happier now. She's not the only female I've known with that attitude. I don't call myself a feminist but I believe in equal rights for women and the strong ones can have equal rights without playing the victim card or having to degrade men to make themselves feel better. Some women manipulate men terribly. There are a lot of good men around who should not be treated like dirt
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Amen.
 
Stormy said:
You're right James and your wife must have gone through a lot in her field but looks like a smart woman who sees what "feminism" has become. I had a group of friends and we all went jogging together and one of them was an angry man hater. She called herself a feminist but she just wanted to dominate men and criticize them and even had a boyfriend for a while that she abused in public. My friends use to roll their eyes at some of the things she said she was a fanatic and we finally told her what we thought about her constant ranting

Sure enough she became pissed off and refused to even hear what we had to say. She was as mad at us as she was at men. I told her one day that I didn't want anything to do with her because of her psychotic rants and haven't been around her since. A couple of my other friends joined me and we are happier now. She's not the only female I've known with that attitude. I don't call myself a feminist but I believe in equal rights for women and the strong ones can have equal rights without playing the victim card or having to degrade men to make themselves feel better. Some women manipulate men terribly. There are a lot of good men around who should not be treated like dirt
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Well said ! There are many more exactly like her than some posters are willing to admit.
 
Some posters are attempting to talk about feminism but the discussion has morphed into a diatribe against individual feminists who are unpleasant to know.

I am a feminist because I was born in 1943 and while my life has been easy by world standards, nevertheless the scales were tipped against me in ways that would not happen had I been born male. I do not hate men and have always enjoyed their company except when they decided to belittle or dismiss me for being uncomfortably vocal.

My education and interest in science has allowed me to talk to men about subjects that many of my contemporary sisters were badly equipped for. I spent my working years teaching girls science, maths and computing so that they would not be excluded from employment in this important field.

Now, if this thread is going to be about how modern feminists are ball crushing man haters, I refuse to contribute further. I know that the vast majority of women who seek equality of opportunity are nothing of the sort.
 
It should be pointed out that attempting to "RE-BRAND" feminists into egalitarians is like trying to sell asbestos under another name. This re-branding is all too transparent and should be obvious to anyone who thinks clearly. As the younger generations of women begin to catch on to the toxic agenda of feminism, they are beginning to totally reject the old-style party line.

The younger generations of women do not see themselves as victims. Without the victimhood identification the old-style feminism is doomed to collapse and will be swept into the dust bin of history. The old hard-liners see what is coming and it is for that reason they now are attempting to convince the world that they are not feminists but rather egalitarians.

To the old hard-line, man haters, I say, "Sorry gals. It is too little, too late. You played your toxic card and now you must live with the damage your sisters have created". To the younger generations of women I say, " Welcome aboard the people train and never forget that you can catch more flies with sugar than you can with vinegar".

For those who missed the earlier link, I respectfully suggest that you read it very carefully.
http://facebook.com/WomenAgainstFeminism
 
Some diehards (and I say that with the utmost respect for what they accomplished) will never acknowledge that the "movement" has been hijacked by a bunch of vile, repugnant man haters whose goal is superiority not equality. Even if they are the "minority", ignoring or discounting it is condoning it, plain and simple. It doesn't matter what the particular hate is, if you don't call it out for what it is it will spread and flourish like a cancer.

It's also unfortunate that some on here can't accept differing opinions/perspectives and feel the need to discount them with insults or jabs. That's equally as repugnant and serves no purpose.
 
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What do you all think of Susan B. Anthony? If the decision to allow women's suffrage was to be made today, would you be for or against it?

If not for the women's movement in Anthony's time, do you think women's suffrage would become inevitable? Is so, then why?
 
I think feminism is being yourself and doing what you want without boasting any perceived virtues of your decisions, letting your accomplishments speak for themselves, and not apologizing for being feminine or supporting alternative female lifestyles.
 
James said:
Some diehards will never acknowledge that the "movement" has been hijacked by a bunch of vile, repugnant man haters whose goal is superiority not equality. Even if they are the "minority", ignoring or discounting it is condoning it, plain and simple. It doesn't matter what the particular hate is, if you don't call it out for what it is it will spread and flourish like a cancer.

It's also unfortunate that some on here can't accept differing opinions/perspectives and feel the need to discount them with insults or jabs. That's equally as repugnant and serves no purpose.
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Correct. I would also add, that people who make personal attacks prove only one thing, they don't know how to debate
 
What do you all think of Susan B. Anthony? If the decision to allow women's suffrage was to be made today, would you be for or against it?

If not for the women's movement in Anthony's time, do you think women's suffrage would become inevitable? Is so, then why?
 
Warrigal said:
Traveler, it is a characteristic of young idealistic men and women that they become very angry when they discover that the world is neither just nor fair. This anger manifests differently in men and women. I'll leave you to think about how it surfaces in young men but in my days of young womanhood I was angry about the obstacles that were strewn across my path simply because I was born a girl. I was often goaded by men friends, supposedly in jest, but my response was to argue passionately for changes to occur. Typically I was dismissed or laughed at which did nothing to improve my mood.

I did not consider men the enemy but their attitude then was a problem. Since that time things have improved a lot. I stopped being angry because it is a pointless emotion that eats away at us from within. The men I knew then have matured and are no longer as ignorant. Having daughters and grand daughters tends to provide another perspective on how women and girls should be treated.

Feminism means different things to different people. My grandfather, who had five daughters and one son, was a feminist. Way back then, early last century, he was a champion of girls' education. He always said that education was "no load to carry" and "when you educate a boy you educate one person but when you educate a girl, you educate a whole family". In many ways, this is what global feminism is all about - lifting up poor populations by making sure that the girls have access to education. It is the first step in the liberation of any oppressed people.

Sunny provided you with a Wiki description of the various facets of feminism. I respectfully suggest you lay down your own anger for a bit and contemplate that passage because it has much to offer.
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Yes, all of that is very true Warrigal. Women also should be given equal pay for equal jobs which they don't get because of backwardness.
 
Traveler said:
There is much that Nazi's , the KKK and feminists have in common.

1st. All 3 are "true believers". They all believe that they, and they alone, are/were correct and everyone else is wrong.

2nd, All 3 are/were quite willing to go to any lengths to get their own way.

3rd. All 3 have a clearly defined enemy. The Nazi's blamed the Jews for their problems. The KKK blames blacks for their problems. And the feminists blame men for their problems.

4th. All 3 use propaganda to portray themselves as victims.

5th. All 3 see themselves as superior beings.

6th All 3 have declared war on people who they see as enemies. ie anyone who disagrees with them

7th. All 3 do not/did not care one iota about people they see as their enemies.

8th. All 3 lack any tolerance for a difference of opinion.

The OP asked the question, "What is feminism?" I reply that since feminists declared war on men, and upon women who disagree with them, they made themselves the enemies of everyone else.
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You are sadly miseducated on the topic. Every one of the points you make are wrong. Seems you didn't read what feminism is not and what it is in the links provided. They are accurate while your "points" are not.:givemebeer: I am a feminist and I am none of those things you point out. Feminists don't have enemies but it seems you are an enemy of feminists with the untruths you post. Some would call them attacks on us.
 
James said:
Some diehards (and I say that with the utmost respect for what they accomplished) will never acknowledge that the "movement" has been hijacked by a bunch of vile, repugnant man haters whose goal is superiority not equality. Even if they are the "minority", ignoring or discounting it is condoning it, plain and simple. It doesn't matter what the particular hate is, if you don't call it out for what it is it will spread and flourish like a cancer.

It's also unfortunate that some on here can't accept differing opinions/perspectives and feel the need to discount them with insults or jabs. That's equally as repugnant and serves no purpose.
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I see this at totally untrue. Why would I acknowledge things that simply are not true. The movement has not been hijacked. There are even men feminists and plenty of them who would disagree with what you say.
 
Traveler said:
Correct. I would also add, that people who make personal attacks prove only one thing, they don't know how to debate
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Never replying to a pointed question, but slithering away with a crass remark about the ilk of the one asking can be a cause of what some regard as a personal attack.
Yer self-aggrandized debate ‘talent’ would never ever ever ever hold up if an arbiter were involved.
These ladies have demonstrated huge patience in honoring yer charade with any replies at all.
 
Stormy said:
You're right James and your wife must have gone through a lot in her field but looks like a smart woman who sees what "feminism" has become. I had a group of friends and we all went jogging together and one of them was an angry man hater. She called herself a feminist but she just wanted to dominate men and criticize them and even had a boyfriend for a while that she abused in public. My friends use to roll their eyes at some of the things she said she was a fanatic and we finally told her what we thought about her constant ranting

Sure enough she became pissed off and refused to even hear what we had to say. She was as mad at us as she was at men. I told her one day that I didn't want anything to do with her because of her psychotic rants and haven't been around her since. A couple of my other friends joined me and we are happier now. She's not the only female I've known with that attitude. I don't call myself a feminist but I believe in equal rights for women and the strong ones can have equal rights without playing the victim card or having to degrade men to make themselves feel better. Some women manipulate men terribly. There are a lot of good men around who should not be treated like dirt
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Yes, an example of one woman has seemed to color your idea of feminism? Perhaps your xfriend was abused by men and venting her anger. Anger is not what psychotic is. There are even more women around who should not be treated like dirt. Have you seen the stats on rape, domestic violence. It is MOSTLY against women. No one here is playing the victim card although I'm sure there are some who have been victimized, rather many, many, many. I call myself a survivor.
 
Gary O' said:
Never replying to a pointed question, but slithering away with a crass remark about the ilk of the one asking can be a cause of what some regard as a personal attack.
Yer self-aggrandized debate ‘talent’ would never ever ever ever hold up if an arbiter were involved.
These ladies have demonstrated huge patience in honoring yer charade with any replies at all.
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Thank you Gary and we have been patient as I see it, too. :)
 
Gary O' said:
Never replying to a pointed question, but slithering away with a crass remark about the ilk of the one asking can be a cause of what some regard as a personal attack.
Yer self-aggrandized debate ‘talent’ would never ever ever ever hold up if an arbiter were involved.
These ladies have demonstrated huge patience in honoring yer charade with any replies at all.
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So true. Thank you.
 
Olivia said:
What do you all think of Susan B. Anthony? If the decision to allow women's suffrage was to be made today, would you be for or against it?

If not for the women's movement in Anthony's time, do you think women's suffrage would become inevitable? Is so, then why?
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I won't pretend to be very familiar with American history but I have done some reading on Ms Anthony. Many differing perspectives on what she was.

So;
What do you all think of Susan B. Anthony?

That question would lead to this question;

Was she a true feminist (a champion for the rights and equality for all) or was she, put into in today's terms, a racist?

If the decision to allow women's suffrage was to be made today, would you be for or against it?

There was inequality against men and women of color as well, did she champion the movement for the rights of all? If it were "today" {and I'm assuming it would be a movement for equality for ALL} then my answer is, yes.

If not for the women's movement in Anthony's time, do you think women's suffrage would become inevitable? Is so, then why.

Not only would it have been inevitable, it very well could've been furthered by a number of very brave and strong women of color who were not only trying to further the rights of ALL women, but also the rights of men of color.

So given my brief introduction to this portion of American History {a couple of hours of reading} this is the best answer that I can give you.
 
Ruthanne said:
Yes, an example of one woman has seemed to color your idea of feminism? Perhaps your xfriend was abused by men and venting her anger. Anger is not what psychotic is. There are even more women around who should not be treated like dirt. Have you seen the stats on rape, domestic violence. It is MOSTLY against women. No one here is playing the victim card although I'm sure there are some who have been victimized, rather many, many, many. I call myself a survivor.
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Agreed, and the process of recovering to survive abuse is exactly the same as the stages of grief. One of the stages that lasts longest and is hardest to get through is anger, but it's also very cathartic. When the anger subsides, healing happens. I've always had to acknowledge my anger before I could let it go and move on.
 
Ruthanne said:
I see this at totally untrue. Why would I acknowledge things that simply are not true. The movement has not been hijacked. There are even men feminists and plenty of them who would disagree with what you say.
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Hear! Hear!

It's totally unacceptable for men to usurp our power by demanding that they have a right to define and judge feminism or feminists. I may not participate in some forms of feminism but more power to those women if that's what they need to do.
 
Ruthanne said:
I see this at totally untrue. Why would I acknowledge things that simply are not true. The movement has not been hijacked. There are even men feminists and plenty of them who would disagree with what you say.
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So we will agree to disagree as there are just as many that would agree with this statement.
 
Ruthanne said:
Yes, an example of one woman has seemed to color your idea of feminism? Perhaps your xfriend was abused by men and venting her anger. Anger is not what psychotic is. There are even more women around who should not be treated like dirt. Have you seen the stats on rape, domestic violence. It is MOSTLY against women. No one here is playing the victim card although I'm sure there are some who have been victimized, rather many, many, many. I call myself a survivor.
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The abuse of anyone whether it be women, men, children or animals is abhorrent and intolerable on all levels.

So are we now talking about perceptions based upon personal experiences that permits an individual to paint a whole group with the same brush and then somehow justifies attacks against that group? This is not furthering the rights of anyone. This is what I would consider to be revenge.

That's kind of alarming. I would suggest that counselling is in order if someone truly feels this way. Its misplaced anger and judgement. Believe me, I have worked with victims of crime for decades and I know having been a victim of crime myself that it takes a long time to regain a clearer perspective. Unfortunately some never do.

This however is not feminism.
 

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