Black men arrested at Starbucks

From what I have seen and read, these men were treated abominably.
Not only were they arrested and taken away in handcuffs but they were not released until about 1.30am.

The police turned up 15 minutes after they entered Starbucks.

Other customers were asking "What did they do?" so there was no apparent bad behaviour by the men.
They were told to order coffee or leave. It that how all Starbucks customers are treated?
I rather think not.
 

On a case by case basis and based on the video and reports I'm sure the manager overreacted. They said they were waiting for a meeting. She should have let him use the restroom. If they hung around for an unreasonable amount of time after that then she would be justified asking them to buy something or leave.
By the pictures the men looked like business men. The only benefit of doubt I could give to the manager would be if there was a pattern of loitering in that store and she was trying to put an end to it. In other words she was sick of people coming in, hanging around and not purchasing. But even if true calling the police after two minutes is way overkill.
 
I've been thinking, what if I was waiting for someone at a restaurant, and was sitting at a table but didn't want to order anything yet? How would I feel about being told I had to order something or leave?

Probably miffed, and I would look for another restaurant next time, but I'd most likely order a cup of coffee or something. If I was there to meet friends, my primary focus would be on that, not on whether my civil rights were being violated. Of course, as a white female, I have a different take on this kind of situation. But still. Sometimes we have to choose our battles.

I think they should have bought a cup of coffee and found another restaurant for their next business meeting.
 

Well, RR & Gary, I got a $5 Starbucks gift card a couple yrs ago. Just checked and it's under a placemat on the table.

Not sure if I should try to use it (it's probably expired). I might get arrested, OR ...OTOH they might say "Oh, wth, get whatever you want" and toss in some freebies. Good PR.
 
My younger son used to sit at Starbucks for hours on end on a regular basis leaching off of their WiFi because he was too cheap to pay for it at his apartment.
 
My younger son used to sit at Starbucks for hours on end on a regular basis leaching off of their WiFi because he was too cheap to pay for it at his apartment.

I was going to comment that Starbucks used to promote/encourage people "loitering" because they had free wifi and used that as a customer draw. So I suppose if the men had whipped out electronic devices they would have been acceptable to the manager??? :confused:
 
I was surprised they were held for hours after the initial arrest. I thought tresspassing and loitering were misdemeanors/fines with summons tickets, not imprisonment.

That being said many businesses do exercise a no loitering or tresspassing policy as do many cities/towns enforce related ordinances.

I was always told that if a business wants to enforce a no loitering policy they should have a sign stating that. Same for use of the bathrooms, somewhere in that Starbucks was there a no loitering sign or must buy something to use the restroom sign. How clear was that store's policy.
 
Well, RR & Gary, I got a $5 Starbucks gift card a couple yrs ago. Just checked and it's under a placemat on the table.

Not sure if I should try to use it (it's probably expired). I might get arrested, OR ...OTOH they might say "Oh, wth, get whatever you want" and toss in some freebies. Good PR.

Do you think if we pooled our cards, we could afford 2 cups of coffee, AC ? Get in the car....:eek:nthego:
 
I was surprised they were held for hours after the initial arrest. I thought tresspassing and loitering were misdemeanors/fines with summons tickets, not imprisonment.

That being said many businesses do exercise a no loitering or tresspassing policy as do many cities/towns enforce related ordinances.

I was always told that if a business wants to enforce a no loitering policy they should have a sign stating that. Same for use of the bathrooms, somewhere in that Starbucks was there a no loitering sign or must buy something to use the restroom sign. How clear was that store's policy.

I think much of the outrage is because the men had just walked in and not even warmed the seats of their chairs.
 
There may be more to the story than what is being reported. The length of time that they were held caught my attention. I am wondering if they, or either one, may have had a prior record, an outstanding warrant or be on parole or probation. Even a misdemeanor can be considered as a parole or probation violation. I can't imagine why they were held so long, or for that matter, held at all, unless there was a mitigating issue.

Normally, a misdemeanor is handled the same as a traffic ticket. The Officer or Trooper will issue a summons to appear before a judge to answer to the charge or charges. Usually these types of misdemeanors are handled by a district judge and the defendant may represent him or herself without having to hire an attorney.

Personally, I have never had a person refuse to leave a business establishment when I have asked them to. Some 10 years ago, it was a very cold January night when I was called to a convenient store because the clerk thought someone who was in the store was acting suspicious. When I approached the older gentleman, I asked him what his business was and if he intended to make a purchase. He told me that he would like to, but he had no money and just wanted to warm up a bit before trying to find a place to lay his head for the night. I told him that there was a shelter about 12 miles down the road and I would be glad to take him to it. He accepted my offer, so I bought him a sandwich and a large coffee before we left the store. He never said a word during the ride to the shelter, but did thank me once I got him inside.

The point to my story is that we never know what one's reasoning is for what they are doing, unless we ask. All too often, people assume the worse. Like in this instance, the young lady cashier thought the man was "casing" the store and waiting until there were no customers inside before robbing her. That's what she told me. I asked her if she asked the man what his intentions were and she said no. She told me that if he was just trying to get warm, she would not have called the police and probably would have offered him a cup of coffee.
 
@911

Due to your profession, resources available, and the fact you are in PA couldn't you easily find out answers to the things you're wondering about?

(I haven't seen/heard anything about the men having prior records, outstanding warrants, or parole violations as it relates to the length of time they were held - about 8 hrs. If there was such a correlation, one would think it would have been reported. I'm not saying it's not possible; just that I haven't seen or heard anything.)

Meanwhile, settlement has been reached.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...delphia-starbucks-are-settling-city-2-n870816
 
I have heard that Philadelphia has a serious racial-animosity problem. I wonder if this incident was just the tip of the iceberg.
 
I have heard that Philadelphia has a serious racial-animosity problem. I wonder if this incident was just the tip of the iceberg.

The iceberg melted many years ago, so there is no tip. I've also heard and read that Philadelphia has a reputation for racial tensions. Also, FWIW this particular Starbucks is in a wealthy suburb.

ETA:
Before some of the pearl-clutchers try to get THIS thread locked or deleted, I did NOT say all of Philadelphia is racist, I did NOT say all wealthy people are racists, and I didn't even say Starbucks is racist. If you doubt what Sunny or I said about Philadelphia, look it up. I am NOT wagging my finger or baiting. I don't have to. Believe me, I know why many of you don't want to discuss racial issues. You won. Congratulations. :wink:
 
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@911

Due to your profession, resources available, and the fact you are in PA couldn't you easily find out answers to the things you're wondering about?

(I haven't seen/heard anything about the men having prior records, outstanding warrants, or parole violations as it relates to the length of time they were held - about 8 hrs. If there was such a correlation, one would think it would have been reported. I'm not saying it's not possible; just that I haven't seen or heard anything.)

Meanwhile, settlement has been reached.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...delphia-starbucks-are-settling-city-2-n870816


Yes, the local police could have run their ID's to check for any type of criminal issues, etc. I just can't figure for the life of me why they were held for such a long time, if they had no priors. I don't even understand why they were taken into custody. If they resisted being removed, that would make sense, but there's no part of the story stating that had happened.
 
Here's a story in today's paper that is thrilling and inspiring, and also horrifying. Good God, what is this country coming to?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...58a1aa9ac0a_story.html?utm_term=.fe2f725bc8f5

"coming to"? :confused: It's always been like that. The racism described in the article is neither new nor surprising.

As I said before, there is no tip of the iceberg. The iceberg melted decades ago.

Sunny, surely you know about lynchmobs, Emmett Till, civil rights marches, race riots, etc.

Might want to also read about Abner Louima and Justin Volpe.

Here: (happened in 1997)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abner_Louima
 
This story about the teenage girls was featured on NPR's news this morning. I think the movie Hidden Figures might also help to raise public outrage.
 
In 2018, there still are (white, some black) people who haven't become learned that the color of ones' skin has nothing to do with intelligence? Are those people living in a racist cult here and there? What are they afraid of, that they are less in comparison to people of other skin colors and so disparage their accomplishments in a foolish attempt to build their own racist self esteem?
Many years ago, I had a horrendously terrifying dream of being chased by men out to lynch me. I do not know why I dreamed it, but for a few seconds asleep I "lived" the terror the young men shown in an old photo of their lynching must have gone through. My God, the cruelty of it!
 
Hidden Figures was a good movie, and it made a lot of money. But the movie came out in December 2016, a year and a half ago. "Outrage" (which in many cases is perfunctory) does not solve the problem.

So some might wonder what I think the solution is. Let me put it this way: I don't think the problem of racism will be solved in our lifetime.
 
In 2018, there still are (white, some black) people who haven't become learned that the color of ones' skin has nothing to do with intelligence? Are those people living in a racist cult here and there?
What are they afraid of, that they are less in comparison to people of other skin colors and so disparage their accomplishments in a foolish attempt to build their own racist self esteem?
Many years ago, I had a horrendously terrifying dream of being chased by men out to lynch me. I do not know why I dreamed it, but for a few seconds asleep I "lived" the terror the young men shown in an old photo of their lynching must have gone through. My God, the cruelty of it!

RE: the first bolded part: I was absolutely stunned when this was addressed in a few American history books I read not long ago- the various authors stated the main reason many southerners were against immigration, even going as far as to start private schools where they could choose who was allowed to attend, was they were 'concerned' that integrated schools could come to mean their little children eventually marrying 'outside their race.'

The second part: I cannot speak for everybody, as I don't know everybody, I can only speak from my own experiences, and from my experiences you do have a point. I can't think of a polite way to word it, but racists I've known in person ('irl') over the years, live 'in the gutter.'
 


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