prisons

justfred

Member
Location
new forest
What are your views on prisons. Over here there is very little difference between a prison and a holiday hotel. The only difference being the 'guests' in prison cannot walk out when they feel like it. They have televisions, computers, a gym, games rooms and it does cost them a penny as the tax payer foots the bill
Should any criminal sent to prison be punished for the crime he or she has committed or as the authorities say 'for rehabilitation'
 

What are your views on prisons. Over here there is very little difference between a prison and a holiday hotel. The only difference being the 'guests' in prison cannot walk out when they feel like it. They have televisions, computers, a gym, games rooms and it does cost them a penny as the tax payer foots the bill
Should any criminal sent to prison be punished for the crime he or she has committed or as the authorities say 'for rehabilitation'
I think rehabilitation works better. Education on how to get on in society and classes for job skills, too. That is for crimes that aren't so bad, though. I think serial killers deserve much worse.
 

What do you class as a 'not so bad' crime? Some would say that if an old lady is knocked down and mugged it is a minor crime but if the old lady was their own mother would they still say it is a minor crime? I agree people that commit minor crimes maybe should be rehabilitated but not go so far as to give them all these privileges, the cost of which has to come from the tax payer. There are many out there who deliberately commit minor crimes so that they can get free board and lodgings for a while.
 
I can have some sympathy for a "first time" offender who commits a non-violent crime. However, for those with multiple arrests, or those who commit a violent crime, their treatment, IMO, should meet minimum requirements....food, a place to sleep, etc....and little else. We spend billions every year warehousing criminals, and over half of them revert back to their "ways" after being released. Prison Should be a form of punishment that might convince some of these thugs to clean up their act. For the worst of them, they could Rot in a shack with little more than a cot to sleep on...IMO.
 
I can have some sympathy for a "first time" offender who commits a non-violent crime. However, for those with multiple arrests, or those who commit a violent crime, their treatment, IMO, should meet minimum requirements....food, a place to sleep, etc....and little else. We spend billions every year warehousing criminals, and over half of them revert back to their "ways" after being released. Prison Should be a form of punishment that might convince some of these thugs to clean up their act. For the worst of them, they could Rot in a shack with little more than a cot to sleep on...IMO.


Exactly...ya don't like prison conditions ? & or the thought of having to endure them ?..........Don't go to prison / Behave....pretty simple concept.
 
IMO the old 80/20 rule probably applies to our current prison system.

About 80% of the people should have a more constructive form of punishment that will allow them to develop skills that will allow them to lead productive lives and contribute to society. The remaining 20% should probably never see the light of day.

I think education and trades should be a large part of our prison system.

IMO no prisoner should be released without a GED diploma and a marketable skill.

I also believe that in many cases prison is not the right solution. In many cases, I believe that we would be better off to allow a convicted criminal to remain in the community while limiting their freedom, sort of a compromise between prison and parole. A sentence that would include a monthly court-ordered restitution/support payment similar to the payment of alimony or child support in divorce cases. The money would benefit the victims and the freedom would require the convicted criminal to support themselves and their family instead of transferring that burden to the taxpayers.

I also think that we need to reevaluate what constitutes a crime and what justifies a prison sentence. I think that too many young people are sitting in prison for stupid non-violent crimes and that some sort of organized community, state or national service might be a better option for them and the taxpayers.
 
There, but for the grace of "god", go I .......

Self-righteous, vengeful, irrational, judgmental "christians" ... give me the laxatives.

Say, what, Toorbulite? I didn't read any religious reference in this thread until you injected one.

As for the topic at hand, I suppose the proof is in the pudding - the pudding in this case being recidivism. Norway has among the planet's best appointed and least punitive prison systems. Also among the very lowest rates of returnees. http://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12

Statistics seem to indicate that "punishing" criminals is akin to cutting our noses to spite our faces. We take first-time offenders and create unemployable career criminals who can't get out of their own way.

I agree with Aunt Bea. Prison is often not the best way to manage early or minor criminal behavior. It's expensive, dispiriting, and generally unhelpful from a long-term perspective.

On the other hand, I have never been the victim of a serious crime, nor has anyone close to me. I acknowledge that my liberal bias is likely at least partly based on that good fortune.
 
Where do we draw the line between a minor crime and a major crime.
How would you class stealing and wrecking a car? A minor crime perhaps but if that was your car that you had worked hard and saved hard for years to be able to buy that car would you still class it as a minor crime?
I still say that if someone commits a crime and gets a custodial sentence then yes rehabilitate them so that they think a life of crime is a no-no when they are released but whilst they are behind bars they should not have the privileges like televisions computers, mobile phones, pool tables etc;
Just my opinion.
 
Say, what, Toorbulite? I didn't read any religious reference in this thread until you injected one.

As for the topic at hand, I suppose the proof is in the pudding - the pudding in this case being recidivism. Norway has among the planet's best appointed and least punitive prison systems. Also among the very lowest rates of returnees. http://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12

Statistics seem to indicate that "punishing" criminals is akin to cutting our noses to spite our faces. We take first-time offenders and create unemployable career criminals who can't get out of their own way.

I agree with Aunt Bea. Prison is often not the best way to manage early or minor criminal behavior. It's expensive, dispiriting, and generally unhelpful from a long-term perspective.

On the other hand, I have never been the victim of a serious crime, nor has anyone close to me. I acknowledge that my liberal bias is likely at least partly based on that good fortune.
I agree with you and Aunt Bea.
 
justfred, are you sure about the privileges you are mentioning? Computers, mobile phones, etc.? TV I can believe, but do they really have unlimited freedom to reach the outside world on computers and phones?

Even if they do, those things are small potatoes when compared with the enormity of losing one's freedom to go and come when you like, as any free human being would have. Imagine being trapped in a locked facility for years of your life, in the company of many who are mentally ill, have a criminal mindset, etc. Doors keep slamming, the food is lousy, illness is rampant, often things are unclean, angry inmates keep hurling threats and insults at each other, there is no privacy and basically no decency in your life. (And remember, some of the inmates have been wrongfully convicted.)

Would you consider having a TV to watch enough compensation for the punishment of losing your freedom and being stuck for years in that hellish environment? I don't think so. How many of us would change places with a single person behind bars, no matter how "luxurious" their prison is?

Back in the days of the Puritans, people were humiliated and were locked up in stocks (or worse). To some extent, we have grown more civilized since then, but we still have a long way to go, to escape the
punitive mindset that wants to make the "bad guys" suffer. (Whether they are guilty of the crime or not.)

If my car was stolen, I would probably be happy to see the guilty party lose his freedom for a while. But I have no desire to pile punishment upon punishment. Just the loss of freedom is punishment enough.
 
Maybe I should point out that I was being sarcastic in note #5. Not sure if that was coming through.


Why apologize ?......if the conditions were such, and it was well known? Don't you think the crime rate would be allot lower ?

Stricter punishment is the answer, not softer.

I read where , in Washington , going back roughly two years they no longer call the prisoners 'prisoners' & or 'inmates' They refer to them as 'students'. As per the article , this is because the terms inmate & or prisoner have a negative connotation, and effect the [so-called] self esteem of the ...ahemmm students.

Sorry but this is PC gone nuts & is ridiculous !
 
I agree with stricter punishment. As I have mentioned before my brother has been in law enforcement all his life and has seen it all. Most of them go right back to their life of crime and don't want anything better. I think if they want something better than they will do something better. My brother's wife is a retired probation officer and knows better than anyone else what happens. I agree that the PC is nuts these days!
 
justfred, are you sure about the privileges you are mentioning? Computers, mobile phones, etc.? TV I can believe, but do they really have unlimited freedom to reach the outside world on computers and phones?

Even if they do, those things are small potatoes when compared with the enormity of losing one's freedom to go and come when you like, as any free human being would have. Imagine being trapped in a locked facility for years of your life, in the company of many who are mentally ill, have a criminal mindset, etc. Doors keep slamming, the food is lousy, illness is rampant, often things are unclean, angry inmates keep hurling threats and insults at each other, there is no privacy and basically no decency in your life. (And remember, some of the inmates have been wrongfully convicted.)

Would you consider having a TV to watch enough compensation for the punishment of losing your freedom and being stuck for years in that hellish environment? I don't think so. How many of us would change places with a single person behind bars, no matter how "luxurious" their prison is?

Back in the days of the Puritans, people were humiliated and were locked up in stocks (or worse). To some extent, we have grown more civilized since then, but we still have a long way to go, to escape the
punitive mindset that wants to make the "bad guys" suffer. (Whether they are guilty of the crime or not.)

If my car was stolen, I would probably be happy to see the guilty party lose his freedom for a while. But I have no desire to pile punishment upon punishment. Just the loss of freedom is punishment enough.
Absolutely.
 
Sending people to prison today has nothing to do with rehabilitation. The idea of rehabbing prisoners left the building long ago. Today, we have a new kind of prisoner. Most will resist being rehabbed. Most want to do nothing, except to lay in his cage and think of what horrible thing he can do next to a guard. Most prisoners have a job, except in super max prisons, where it's best to keep the animals in their cages and locked. How would you like to be a member of an extraction team in a prison and have to remove a prisoner from his cell?

I have seen extractions. They can get really nasty at times if the prisoner resists and the bigger he is, the worse it can be. I have seen prisoners spit at and on guards, throw their feces and urine on guards and also inside their cell on the walls, mattress, etc. I have seen prisoners stick their finger down their throat so they can throw up on a guard and even stand next to a guard and pee on them.

It's also what prisoners do to each other that makes some of these prisoners come to be called animals. We have all heard about the rapes that go on and that's not a fairy tale. Some rapes are very brutal. Here in Pennsylvania, at the one prison I attended for training, we have a cell block for juvenile offenders. During my training there, we had a fellow that was 15 when he was incarcerated for killing his Mom. I happened to be there when just after he turned 18 and was transferred to the adult wing. It was only about 3 or 4 days later when this kid showed up for morning role call all bloody, hair pulled out, burn marks on his face and arms, clothes torn and no shoes or socks. He must have went through hell at some point during the night. He was put in a cell with another lifer, only he was in his 40's and a much bigger man. There was no doubt in anyone's mind that he was the person that dished out the punishment. Sure, we pull him out of his cell and put him in solitary confinement, but so what? He's in for life. What else are we going to do to him?

Almost every prisoner carries some kind of shank on him or in a handy hiding place where he can get his hands on it when and if necessary. Everyday, yes, everyday, fights break out, either in the yard or inside the common areas. Prisoners today are mean, viscous and brutal. Most of the young ones up until about 50 or so years of age belong to a gang. Being in a gang affords them protection, or so they think. Gang fights or gang wars as they like to call them, also happen frequently.

Being in prison is like having no life and having to watch your back 24/7. There is always someone pissed off at you and even if there isn't, there are times when one prisoner just wants to stick another one to make him feel good. A prisoner can never trust what's in his food, especially if he has enemies working in the kitchen. It's Hell at its worse.

And last, do not mistake prison for your local county jail. It's like comparing kindergarten to high school.
 
What are your views on prisons.


I have a Biblical view, under Bible law there are no prison punishments [therefore no prisons, no appeals, no plea bargains, no time off for good behavior, etc.]

Either one is immediately punished or makes restitution then returned to society... or [for certain crimes] one is executed.

.
 
Sending people to prison today has nothing to do with rehabilitation. The idea of rehabbing prisoners left the building long ago. Today, we have a new kind of prisoner. Most will resist being rehabbed. Most want to do nothing, except to lay in his cage and think of what horrible thing he can do next to a guard. Most prisoners have a job, except in super max prisons, where it's best to keep the animals in their cages and locked. How would you like to be a member of an extraction team in a prison and have to remove a prisoner from his cell?

I have seen extractions. They can get really nasty at times if the prisoner resists and the bigger he is, the worse it can be. I have seen prisoners spit at and on guards, throw their feces and urine on guards and also inside their cell on the walls, mattress, etc. I have seen prisoners stick their finger down their throat so they can throw up on a guard and even stand next to a guard and pee on them.

It's also what prisoners do to each other that makes some of these prisoners come to be called animals. We have all heard about the rapes that go on and that's not a fairy tale. Some rapes are very brutal. Here in Pennsylvania, at the one prison I attended for training, we have a cell block for juvenile offenders. During my training there, we had a fellow that was 15 when he was incarcerated for killing his Mom. I happened to be there when just after he turned 18 and was transferred to the adult wing. It was only about 3 or 4 days later when this kid showed up for morning role call all bloody, hair pulled out, burn marks on his face and arms, clothes torn and no shoes or socks. He must have went through hell at some point during the night. He was put in a cell with another lifer, only he was in his 40's and a much bigger man. There was no doubt in anyone's mind that he was the person that dished out the punishment. Sure, we pull him out of his cell and put him in solitary confinement, but so what? He's in for life. What else are we going to do to him?

Almost every prisoner carries some kind of shank on him or in a handy hiding place where he can get his hands on it when and if necessary. Everyday, yes, everyday, fights break out, either in the yard or inside the common areas. Prisoners today are mean, viscous and brutal. Most of the young ones up until about 50 or so years of age belong to a gang. Being in a gang affords them protection, or so they think. Gang fights or gang wars as they like to call them, also happen frequently.

Being in prison is like having no life and having to watch your back 24/7. There is always someone pissed off at you and even if there isn't, there are times when one prisoner just wants to stick another one to make him feel good. A prisoner can never trust what's in his food, especially if he has enemies working in the kitchen. It's Hell at its worse.

And last, do not mistake prison for your local county jail. It's like comparing kindergarten to high school.

I don't doubt any of this for a moment, 911. I despair over it, particularly over the ones who can be (and want to be) rehabilitated, but I sure don't doubt what you're saying. Thank you for taking the time to type it out. Very scary stuff.
 
Sunny.
In answer to your query 'Are things really like this' The answer is Yes!! If an inmate complained of the way he/she is being treated we have a band of do gooders claiming we are depriving them of their Human Rights. To me those that commit serious crimes have no human rights and should be severely punished and these human rights busy bodies should keep their noses out.
By the way, I hang my head in shame, I have a criminal record. In 1944 I was caught giving a friend a ride on the crossbar of my bicycle and was fined the sum of two shillings and sixpence.
 


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