Abortion - the times may be a changin...

Ruthanne

SF VIP
Location
Midwest
When I was in my fertile years I could not have agreed to an abortion. That's just not me. I had wanted children badly most of those years.

I also believe that it's a woman's choice and only her and the man's business. Who am I to say what someone else does with their body?
I am not the supreme judge after all.
 

Murrmurr

Well-known Member
Part of the UK was still living in the dark ages regarding abortion until it was dragged into the 21st. century. I believe that while it is in some cases a poor substitute for contraception, it is an individual choice and within reasonable limits, should be available and legal.
It's extremely likely medical scientists can find a method for doing guaranteed reversible (temporary) surgical sterilization. But I suppose no one wants to fund the necessary studies.
 

Devi

Senior Member
Location
East WA USA
And ... are there not birth control pills? (It's been a million years since I looked into it.)

But that's a different issue than the abortion issue in this thread.
 

Paco Dennis

Senior Member
Location
Mid-Missouri

"Polls: Most Americans support the right to abortion, but many are also OK with 15-week limit


New opinion polls show that while Americans remain divided over abortion, most do not entirely agree with either side in a case heading to the Supreme Court next month.

The justices are preparing to hear a case from Mississippi, whose officials are defending its 15-week limit on abortions and urging the repeal of Roe vs. Wade.

Abortion rights advocates argue that if the 15-week limit is upheld, the court will have overturned the landmark 1973 ruling. Under that precedent, abortions have been legal through about 24 weeks of a pregnancy, the point when a fetus can live outside the womb.

A Marquette University Law School poll released Wednesday found respondents by a 2-1 ratio said Roe vs. Wade should not be overturned.

But when survey respondents were asked if they would favor or oppose a ruling to “uphold a state law that (except in cases of medical emergencies or fetal abnormalities) bans abortions after the 15th week of a pregnancy,” 37% said they favored upholding it, while 32% said they would oppose such a ruling.

It is a result that pollsters have long observed if respondents are asked several questions about their views on abortion.

A Washington Post-ABC News poll released Tuesday also found strong support for Roe vs. Wade. Asked if this ruling should be upheld or overturned, the respondents said it should be upheld by 60% to 27%.

Marquette has been doing regular polling on the court, and in September, 40% said they favored upholding a 15-week limit while 32% opposed it.


“This is in line with much national polling on abortion over the years, which consistently finds support for maintaining Roe and a right to an abortion, but accepts a variety of restrictions including on the timing of abortions, as in this case,” Marquette’s pollsters said.

The court will hear arguments in the case Dobbs vs. Jackson Women’s Health Organization on Dec. 1.

The threat to Roe has arisen not from changes in public opinion but in the makeup of the court.

Before 2017, the court had three veteran conservatives — Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. and Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel A. Alito Jr. — who were skeptical of abortion rights.

In his first year as a justice, Thomas voted to overturn the abortion right in the 1992 case of Planned Parenthood vs. Casey.

The three veterans have been joined by three appointees of President Trump — Justices Neil M. Gorsuch, Brett M. Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett — who supporters believe will vote to overturn Roe vs. Wade if presented the opportunity.

That prospect arose last year with the death of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg in September. Three months before, Mississippi’s Atty. Gen. Lynn Fitch had filed an appeal petition asking the court to revisit the “strict viability” rule and uphold its proposed 15-week limit on abortions. Doing so would “not require the court to overturn Roe,” she wrote.

But Barrett had replaced Ginsburg when the court met behind closed doors to consider the appeal. After months of delay and uncertainty, the court announced in May it would hear the Dobbs case and decide the question raised by Mississippi: “whether all pre-viability prohibitions on elective abortions are unconstitutional.”

However, Mississippi’s top attorney then raised the stakes. “Roe and Casey are egregiously wrong,” she told the justices in July, and they should be overturned at once.

Meanwhile, abortion rights advocates also argue that the court has no option but to uphold or strike down the right to abortion.

“If the court upholds the ban, it is overruling Roe and Casey, even if it doesn’t use those words,” said Julie Rikelman, an attorney for the Center for Reproductive Rights, who will represent the Jackson women’s clinic.

She said the viability rule set in Roe was clear and workable. “Without that clear line, states could ban abortions at any point in a pregnancy,” she said."


https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2021-11-17/americans-support-the-right-to-abortion
 

jerry old

Texas Crude
Again, murder is murder
Let me wander: that kid Ritterhouse that murdered two people-had the corpses been brought into the courtroom. laying in state
throughout the trial, would that have assisted the jury in reaching a decision.
(for that matter any murder trial)

Would having a fetus laying on the table assist the Supreme Court in their decision making?
Lawyers are not a friend of justice, they are to twist and turn, send people wandering down rabbit trails.

All the words following murder that the lawyers spout do not change the facts that a living fetus is no more; would handling a
fetus change your mind?
 

Pepper

Well-known Member
Location
NYC
People have not learned that to maintain freedom one must have eternal vigilance. I have watched all these decades as people take these things for granted. Now it will be up to the new generations to decide if they have the guts & gumption to organize and to fight and to not let go. I will say the minority in this issue have done just that for many, many years with little to no opposition. It's time to get off one's derriere, and not assume.

Of course, this is not an issue for those who can afford to fly for their procedures. Nothing real is ever an issue for them. Reality is for other people, those with the moxie to stay with it and not let it lapse. Ever.
 

StarSong

Awkward is my Superpower
Of course, this is not an issue for those who can afford to fly for their procedures. Nothing real is ever an issue for them. Reality is for other people, those with the moxie to stay with it and not let it lapse. Ever.
Very true. I've long said that if outlawed here, access to safe, legal abortions will shift from a matter of health care to one of economics. Those with the means will continue to have access.

While I'm not wealthy, if my daughter or GD needed an abortion and it was illegal in my state or country, I'd make a priority of getting her to a place where it was both safe and legal.

Making abortions illegal will merely force them underground. Frank Sinatra's mother was an abortionist 100 years ago. There's nothing new about women choosing to not bring pregnancy to term.
 

Pepper

Well-known Member
Location
NYC
My beloved grandma Rose was a nurse in the 1920's. She did home care for women dying of botched abortions. She told me of all the other children the women had, watching Momma die. One hundred years ago, dying mothers with too many mouths to feed. She was one of a very few nurses who was able to accept these types of assignments. My Rose was a very strong woman. The day in 1973 when Roe became law we were walking together. She said it was the second best day ever.
 

StarSong

Awkward is my Superpower
My beloved grandma Rose was a nurse in the 1920's. She did home care for women dying of botched abortions. She told me of all the other children the women had, watching Momma die. One hundred years ago, dying mothers with too many mouths to feed. She was one of a very few nurses who was able to accept these types of assignments. My Rose was a very strong woman. The day in 1973 when Roe became law we were walking together. She said it was the second best day ever.
What was the first?
 

Sassycakes

SF VIP
Location
Pennsylvania
Fortunately, I was never put in a position to need an abortion. However, a friend of mine had a child who had a condition where she could never talk or walk, etc. So my friend and her husband decided not to have more children. 7 years later Sadly her husband was a fireman and was killed fighting a fire. They had to examine my friend before they could pronounce him dead. I remember it like it was yesterday. They found out she was pregnant and while she was waiting to find out if her second child would be born with the same problem we cried for hours. Fortunately, the baby would not have the same condition. I would not have blamed her if she had an abortion. Why make another child go through the same problems as her first child. I still cry thinking her husband never heard a child call him Daddy.
 
I'm torn on this issue. I don't really see how you can prevent abortions. If a woman wants one bad enough, they have to resort to back alley quacks, and that doesn't help anyone. Yet, you are destroying what could be a life. I doubt most women view abortions as something you do on the way to McDonalds. For most, it is a traumatic event. I think anti-abortion people seem to forget that. And again, it is the cessation of a human life. Like i said I'm torn.
 

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