Another school shooting

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Traveler said:
I, personally, would have no problem with the banning of those weapons, but I'm afraid that the NRA would fight that tooth and nail. I certainly agree that there is no valid reason for selling or owning guns like that. They are of no use for hunting, so that leaves just target practice.

Truly, I know next to nothing about those types of weapons or why anyone would want them. Heck, I don't even hunt and I never have had any interest in doing so.

Perhaps, our friend 911 could help us out here. If he was at a combat range, could he get off practically an unlimited amount of rounds with an automatic hand gun, provided he had a 20 loaded clips on his person ? If the answer is yes, wouldn't that be just as deadly as an AR-15 ?
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When I was down at the FBI training facility in Quantico, VA, I was shown numerous weapons that had been confiscated from drug dealers. Some of those weapons are pretty sophisticated and included one handgun that had a 300 round clip housed inside of an outer shell. It looked like a box mounted on a pistol. They also showed us a machine gun that also included a grenade launcher (M4 Carbine Commando with an M203 Grenade Launcher). The FBI Agent that was in charge of the weapons at the training facility showed us weapons that I never even knew existed.

Like I said earlier, if I am firing at someone close range, I much prefer the 12 gauge pump. If I was close enough, I could blow a hole through a man large enough to sick may hand and arm through.
 

TonyK said:
My first teaching job was at a high school which was all over the front pages of America because of federal school busing. I went past a metal detector every day. There were more state troopers inside the school than there were students. Fights occurred every week. Some teachers read newspapers during their classes. I wouldn't see some students for weeks at a time. Those kids lost out on an education.

Today's kids recognize they can't vote, but they can organize and protest.

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I was a teenager during the federal government forced school busing.
I went to a huge parent/student protest at a Ft Worth school board meeting.
There was a show of uniformed police to overtly keep the peace. I was a patsy
to an undercover police operation that shut down the protest. Here is how it
came down. I was just standing there listening to some of the protesters
when a woman grabbed my arm, pointed her finger in my face and yelled
very loudly... "you want to send my child to school with a bunch of n..... "
I was shocked because I did not know the woman and like the other students
and parents there, I was protesting the opposite of what she accused me of.
Next thing I know, I am being dragged out by two uniformed policemen
and accused of inciting a riot. I knew I had said or done no such thing so
I told the police I was going back to the protest... they said if I did that,
they would arrest me for rioting. Again, I was a patsy to an undercover
police operation. Other protesters didn't mind the police dragging me out..
because they had been fooled into thinking I was the enemy. It was a
very well-executed government psy-op. But it was a wake up call for me.
They picked on the wrong weak-looking demure teenage girl. I became
very vocal about government oppression... which includes staged government
psy-ops like I was a victim too. Government agents are so good at doing
that sort of thing... you can be in the same room as the undercover staged
psy-op event and not realize it is happening.
 
KingsX said:
The second amendment says nothing about hunting and target practice.
A well armed citizen militia was for protecting the people and society
from enemies... sometimes that enemy is a home or school invader...
sometimes that enemy is oppressive government.

In the Texas Declaration of Independence, Texans list many oppressions
conducted by the Mexican government against Texas citizens.

Here is one of them:

"It has demanded us to deliver up our arms, which are essential to our defence,
the rightful property of freemen, and formidable only to tyrannical governments."

https://www.tsl.texas.gov/treasures/republic/declaration.html


As Thomas Jefferson said:

" God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion."

" What country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? "

" The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. "


https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/01-12-02-0348


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Here's another interesting piece of history.

In 1831 the Anglo settlers of Gonzales, Texas asked for a cannon to protect them from hostile Indians.
The Mexican government provided a cannon but said it reserved the right to take it back at anytime.

1835 Mexican soldiers were sent to Gonzales to confiscate the cannon. The Gonzales settlers sent back
notice that they were keeping both the cannon and the soldiers [as POWs.]

So the Mexican government sent over a hundred troops to confiscate the cannon.

Gonzales Anglo settlers along with a militia company of thirty mounted Indian fighters prepared the cannon
for battle. Their ladies made a flag for the battle, an image of the cannon and the words: "Come and Take It"

http://www.usflags.com/images/thumbs/0000731.jpeg


The battle of Gonzales is considered to be the first battle of the Texas Revolution.

"Come and Take It" became one of the rallying cries of the Texas Revolution.
 
KingsX said:
Here's another interesting piece of history.

In 1831 the Anglo settlers of Gonzales, Texas asked for a cannon to protect them from hostile Indians.
The Mexican government provided a cannon but said it reserved the right to take it back at anytime.

1835 Mexican soldiers were sent to Gonzales to confiscate the cannon. The Gonzales settlers sent back
notice that they were keeping both the cannon and the soldiers [as POWs.]

So the Mexican government sent over a hundred troops to confiscate the cannon.

Gonzales Anglo settlers along with a militia company of thirty mounted Indian fighters prepared the cannon
for battle. Their ladies made a flag for the battle, an image of the cannon and the words: "Come and Take It"

http://www.usflags.com/images/thumbs/0000731.jpeg


The battle of Gonzales is considered to be the first battle of the Texas Revolution.

"Come and Take It" became one of the rallying cries of the Texas Revolution.
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Again who made the decision that it was an oppressive government. They were all British at the time where they not ruled from overseas.

The U.S. Isn't ruled by anyone else now. A leader now rebelling against the U.S. Government would be guilty of treason under the Constitution.
 
911--Looking at the video in post 200, there is no doubt in my mind that if a shooter had a weapon like that and went into a school, many, many more lives would be lost. Is that type of weapon with that type of magazine actually legal in the U.S.? The last that I heard is that a gun owner that wishes to own a fully automatic weapon has to jump through hoops to get a special permit in order to own a fully automatic weapon. Is this correct?
 
Next thing to worry about is that we don't have any copy cat killers out there. Kids should be able to go to school without worrying about "is today the day that I will have to run for my life?" I agree with whoever wrote that teachers and students need to be hyper vigilant and don't take any off the cuff remarks made by someone that they are going to kill another student or that they are going to bring a weapon to school. If anyone hears anything along the lines that someone is thinking about "making the rounds", they should report it post haste and not take the position "Oh, he is just blowing off a bit."
 
Yesterday this is what one of our stupid federal parliamentarians posted on Twitter.

1519005804354.jpg


You've got to wonder about this level of insensitivity.

Naturally members of the Green Party are very concerned. They have reported him to the police.
 
oldman said:
911--Looking at the video in post 200, there is no doubt in my mind that if a shooter had a weapon like that and went into a school, many, many more lives would be lost. Is that type of weapon with that type of magazine actually legal in the U.S.? The last that I heard is that a gun owner that wishes to own a fully automatic weapon has to jump through hoops to get a special permit in order to own a fully automatic weapon. Is this correct?
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Reagan signed into law in 1986. You cannot buy a fully automatic rifle manufactured after 1986 (civilians).

The previous guns were grandfathered. They are available on the market at an exorbitant price .

What we are talking about here is a semi automatic called the AR-15 type of weapon.

It was used in the Vegas shooting, the Texas church shooting, and the present Florida shooting as well as others.

In the Texas shooting I was particularly appalled because the shooter executed young children as young as 5 and made sure they were dead.

Then there is lots of talk and nothing is done and then it becomes business as usual till the next shooting.

But this one is different. These are high school students, demanding change, organizing, and I think they are going to make a difference.

The gun lobby wants armed guards at schools and possibly churches. Third world style I call it.
 
Camper6 said..........


"The gun lobby wants armed guards at schools and possibly churches. Third world style I call it."

I can remember years ago seeing such things , at border crossings, airports & such in many of the 'foreign' reports...and thinking how glad I was to live here , where we do not need such things.

Well.....guess what.

It appears our largest threat of terrorism isn't from a foreign nation / faction encroaching our shores....it is from within.
 
rgp
It appears our largest threat of terrorism isn't from a foreign nation / faction encroaching our shores....it is from within.
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=========================================================================================

Will Durant, the 20 century's greatest historian once wrote,

"No great civilization is ever destroyed from without, until it has destroyed itself from within"
 
Traveler said:
Will Durant, the 20 century's greatest historian once wrote,

"No great civilization is ever destroyed from without, until it has destroyed itself from within"
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A truism if there ever was one. I have just seen the film Darkest Hour and, allowing for poetic license, the film did depict the strength of the British people when faced with the probability of Nazi invasion as was happening to European nations. They were united in their resolve to resist, not capitulate. The centre held and the invasion never took place.
 
Traveler said:
TonyK, yes indeed, the students of today, will be voting tomorrow. There is only one problem. The 2nd Amendment.

Voters could elect the most liberal person imaginable to the Presidency and that person might be able to shove through both Houses of Congress a total ban on any, or all, guns. But, in the end, the 9 Supreme Court Justices will have the final say whether such a ban is, or is not, Constitutional.

There exists another possible way to achieve the ban. That would be if 2/3rds of the states voted to repeal the 2nd Amendment. If that happened, then the U.S. Congress could write any ban, full or partial, that they chose. But, I wouldn't hold my breath.
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The Second Amendment isn't that big of an issue when it comes to certain weapons.

Connecticut issued a ban on semi automatic rifles like the AR-15 which was used in this murder of innocents as well.

An appeal by the gun lobby was rejected and it was ruled Constitutional.
 
Traveler said:
It is may be true that what you say about modern assault weapons not being available to disturbed people, back in the 1950's. However, many other types of weapons were readily available, the M-1 carbine being just one of many. In case you are unaware, the M-1 carbine will fire a round every time the trigger is pulled. Additionally, pump-style shot-guns have been common place. That gun, when loaded with 00 buckshot is a formidable weapon capable of horrific destruction.

Sunny, look at it this way. Can any 18 year-old walk into a gun store and buy a wide variety of weapons? Yes, they can. Just walk in, fill out a bit of paperwork, and walk out with a long gun, all within 30 minutes. The deeper question, Sunny, is WHY does one boy take that weapon and kill with it but millions of other boys do not ?

In any event, what would you have us do ? Ban all guns? All rifles, all shot-guns and all pistols ? That, my friend, is a non-starter. It is NEVER going to happen.
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Banning all guns is not the issue here and never will be. That's the claim by the gun lobby. The issue is the weapon of choice, the semi automatic rifle designed for the military which is capable of killing many people in a very short time and you don't even have to aim it.

The last three mass murders, Vegas, Texas and Florida.
 
So now, he stands there with his head down. I bet his head wasn't down when he was shooting all those kids. I bet he felt powerful and brave when he was tearing up their flesh. And now in this thread, we already forget!!! SEVENTEEN LIVES and all you all can do here is argue about gun rights. It's sickening!
 
Camper6 said:
Banning all guns is not the issue here and never will be. That's the claim by the gun lobby. The issue is the weapon of choice, the semi automatic rifle designed for the military which is capable of killing many people in a very short time and you don't even have to aim it.

The last three mass murders, Vegas, Texas and Florida.
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I keep seeing it used as a machine gun, which it is not and can not be such, by law and design. Call them what you want and it is still a legal rifle, AR 15 and others are illegal in the US and are not to be sold in their military version to civilians.

As long as it takes the operators finger to pull the trigger to fire a shot the gun is not a military style machine gun that will continue to fire as long as the trigger is held and bullets remain to be shot. AUTO FIRE weapons are illegal and are not sold to civilians in the US. States may also pass laws to support the federal gun laws.

I was watching NBC news tonight as saw them showing those kids complaining about military weapons being used to kill civilians. Who is paying for all those mob scenes and the lies about the guns in the US. Who is paying for having all the young folks improperly trained. Guns can be dangerous for all, whether single shot or machine guns. The big difference is that all weapons allowed to be sold to civilians are restricted to one shot per trigger pull. The multiple shots per trigger pull are illegal and are not allowed to be sold in the US.

We need to stop lieing to the folks in the US and telling them all military style weapons are machine guns and rapid fire weapons, they are not.
 
BobF said:
I keep seeing it used as a machine gun, which it is not and can not be such, by law and design. Call them what you want and it is still a legal rifle, AR 15 and others are illegal in the US and are not to be sold in their military version to civilians.

As long as it takes the operators finger to pull the trigger to fire a shot the gun is not a military style machine gun that will continue to fire as long as the trigger is held and bullets remain to be shot. AUTO FIRE weapons are illegal and are not sold to civilians in the US. States may also pass laws to support the federal gun laws.

I was watching NBC news tonight as saw them showing those kids complaining about military weapons being used to kill civilians. Who is paying for all those mob scenes and the lies about the guns in the US. Who is paying for having all the young folks improperly trained. Guns can be dangerous for all, whether single shot or machine guns. The big difference is that all weapons allowed to be sold to civilians are restricted to one shot per trigger pull. The multiple shots per trigger pull are illegal and are not allowed to be sold in the US.

We need to stop lieing to the folks in the US and telling them all military style weapons are machine guns and rapid fire weapons, they are not.
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Are you sure the automatic weapons such as the AR 15 are illegal? I know of some who have bought them.
 
Okay. It is an assault weapon and semi-automatic. Anyways the ban on them ended in 2004.

Colt AR-15

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


For the type of weapon sometimes misidentified as AR-15, see AR-15 style rifle.
"AR-15" redirects here. For the select-fire rifle of a similar name, see ArmaLite AR-15. For other uses, see AR-15 (disambiguation).
The Colt AR-15 is a lightweight, 5.56×45mm, magazine-fed, gas-operated semi-automatic rifle. It was designed to be manufactured with the extensive use of aluminum alloys and synthetic materials. It is a semi-automatic version of the United States military M16 rifle. Colt's Manufacturing Company currently uses the AR-15 trademark for its line of semi-automatic AR-15 rifles that are marketed to civilian and law-enforcement customers.

The ban:

Federal Assault Weapons Ban

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


This article is about the U.S. Assault Weapons Ban of 1994 that expired in 2004. For other assault weapons bans in the U.S., see Assault weapons legislation in the United States.

President Bill Clinton signing the bill into law.​

The Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB)—officially, the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act—is a subsection of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, a United States federal law that included a prohibition on the manufacture for civilian use of certain semi-automatic firearms it defined as assault weapons, as well as certain ammunition magazines it defined as "large capacity".
The ten-year ban was passed by the U.S. Congress on September 13, 1994, following a close 52–48 vote in the Senate, and signed into law by then President Bill Clinton the same day. The ban only applied to weapons manufactured after the date of the ban's enactment, and it expired on September 13, 2004, in accordance with its sunset provision.
Several constitutional challenges were filed against provisions of the ban, but all were rejected by reviewing courts. There were multiple attempts to renew the ban, but none succeeded.





 
BobF said:
I keep seeing it used as a machine gun, which it is not and can not be such, by law and design. Call them what you want and it is still a legal rifle, AR 15 and others are illegal in the US and are not to be sold in their military version to civilians.

As long as it takes the operators finger to pull the trigger to fire a shot the gun is not a military style machine gun that will continue to fire as long as the trigger is held and bullets remain to be shot. AUTO FIRE weapons are illegal and are not sold to civilians in the US. States may also pass laws to support the federal gun laws.

I was watching NBC news tonight as saw them showing those kids complaining about military weapons being used to kill civilians. Who is paying for all those mob scenes and the lies about the guns in the US. Who is paying for having all the young folks improperly trained. Guns can be dangerous for all, whether single shot or machine guns. The big difference is that all weapons allowed to be sold to civilians are restricted to one shot per trigger pull. The multiple shots per trigger pull are illegal and are not allowed to be sold in the US.

We need to stop lieing to the folks in the US and telling them all military style weapons are machine guns and rapid fire weapons, they are not.
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So it's not an automatic? So what?

Las Vegas 58 dead, Texas shooting 26 dead, Florida shooting 17 dead, and I don't know how many injured and suffering from trauma after seeing their fellow students shot.

The AR-15 semi automatic weapon was designed and sold to the military. It became popular with the civilian population.

It is the weapon of choice for those who want to kill as many people in as short a time as possible.

It has been banned in Connecticut and it has been ruled constitutional to do so. An appeal from the gun lobby was rejected.

No one is lying to the folks in the U.S. So you have to pull the trigger. So what. And the guy in Vegas had bump stocks which for all intents and purposes made it an automatic.

The family of the inventor of the AR-15 stated that in interviews with their father that he stated it was invented by him to give the American soldier an edge in battle.

The semi automatic version was sold to armies around the world. That's what it was designed for.

This last murder is different in the fact that those students are not going to let it rest.

Perhaps if they released the video of the Baptist church showing the gunman methodically executing children you might change your mind.
 
Here's a thought to warm some of your hearts ... from Ed Chenel, a police officer in Australia .


I thought you all would like to see the real figures from Down Under. It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in:
* Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent ...
* Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent ...
* Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!


In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!


While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady
decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly, while the resident is at home.


Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in 'successfully ridding Australian society of guns ...' what do you make of this .. its not the guns that are the problem its the people who use them ! agree with me ?
 
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