Are there ANGELS?

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Their life came from the same place that everything else came from, Gary. It's a force of nature. There's nothing magic about life, it just is.
 
Somehow, I just knew I'd be ROFLOL'ing at these posts....sooner or later.

At one place I worked, I also had a good laugh. My supervisor who was Philippine was having a conversation with an outside sales rep who was Jamaican. I walked into the office after my lunch break & heard her saying, "No....Jesus is Lord." Then I heard my supervisor say, "No, Buddha is Lord." After they went back & forth a few times, I couldn't resist. I said, "Satan is Lord....I worship Satan." She looked at me, her eyes got real big & she let out a scream & ran out of the room. My supervisor & I & everyone else in the office laughed so hard we had tears rolling down our cheeks.
 
Olivia said:
You are wrong. Churches do pay taxes, but hell if I'm going to do your research work for you.
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Olivia is correct. Having been congregation treasurer and also treasurer for a not for profit long day care centre I can assert that there are some taxes that congregations must pay and some that they are exempt from because there are not for profit enterprises. If a church is selling anything and making profit, it must pay appropriate tax, probably at corporate rates but I could not say because we never made much of a surplus, let alone any profit.

Just as some corporations structure their finances to avoid paying taxes I do not doubt that some mega churches do the same thing. In both cases the laws should be changed to prevent this happening. However the idea that all churches are draining the public purse is false and it doesn't take into account money, time and effort that members of the church contribute to the community.

I have just returned from helping out at our church playgroup. We run it with two volunteers and one paid worker. Her pay does not come out of the church budget because we don't have enough money. We are supported by a local licenced workers' club. They distribute grants to community groups that they approve of because that is a condition of their gambling licence. Most years we have been successful in our grant application for $5,000. When we are not, we run it with just two volunteers. I do the morning tea twice a week and I bear the cost of most of it. The parents contribute a piece of fruit. They also pay $5 per visit if they have it. That money goes to buy new toys, replace children's size furniture when it wears out and buy craft materials. The congregation bears the cost of electricity etc and there is no rental charge for using church premises.

Last Friday evening we put on a kiddie disco in the church and supplied a light supper of fruit, sausage sizzle and chocolate cake for all. At no charge.

I can assure you that we give more to that group of parents, grandparents and children much more than we ask from them. Hardly any of them are members of our church but that does not matter.
 
@Warrigal
According to my link on post #416, "Churches do not pay property taxes or basic income taxes.'' They do pay taxes on other things, which is minor compared to the taxes they save on property and income.
 
PVC said:
@Warrigal
According to my link on post #416, "Churches do not pay property taxes or basic income taxes.'' They do pay taxes on other things, which is minor compared to the taxes they save on property and income.
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I don't want to argue anymore, but churches do pay property taxes and income taxes. It's on non church use properties and non-clergy employees.
 
As far as Australia goes you are correct but for one item. Income tax is paid for both clergy and non clergy employees. Technically the church isn't paying the tax, the employee is and the church is just forwarding it on to the taxation department. We had to pay Goods and Services Tax if we rented out the church and on any other income derived from trading but we could balance that against GST we paid on any items we bought for the purpose of worship. In other words, there was no difference to the way value added tax was calculated for a church or a business. Contributions from the congregation were neither tax exempt nor subject to tax because they are all personal donations after the appropriate personal income has been paid. Contrary to popular belief, money placed in the plate cannot be used as a tax deduction (except sometimes if it is designated for a building fund or a war memorial).

Like all matters of taxation, the situation can be very confusing but the heart of the matter is that churches are usually treated like all other non profit organisations. If they start making profits then taxation applies for those activities that are profitable..
 
There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence to prove the existence of angels, spirits, or any gods, and there is also absolutely no objective verifiable evidence to prove that they don't exist...No one knows either way with any absolute certainty...It all comes down to what each person chooses to believe and what not to believe in.
 
Churches and religious organizations are generally exempt from income tax and receive other favorable treatment under the tax law; however, certain income of a church or religious organization may be subject to tax, such as income from an unrelated business.
 
Interesting how this thread has morphed from belief in angels to the details of tax law! ( Good way to get me out of a conversation in a hurry.) 😁

Anyway, to get back to the "angels" question, let me share an event that happened to me a while back. Due to a combination of medications for heart and blood pressure issues, one morning I woke up to see a kindly woman standing at the foot of my bed. She was not anyone I knew, but I knew she was kind and was watching over me. She was not dressed like an "angel," just wearing ordinary clothes, appeared somewhere in her 40's or so, and looked motherly, although she was not my mother either.

I was not dreaming, I was wide awake, and wondered who she was, and why she was standing by my bed. This illusion lasted probably for just a few seconds, then she went away. Afterwards, I googled the medications, and found that visual hallucinations were indeed one of the possible side effects of one of them. I called my doctor and made an adjustment; it's never happened again.

So.... what if, due to my early training, I was inclined to believe she was an angel? I would probably be arguing that this was "proof" that angels really do exist. I wonder how many religious miracles stemmed from the effects of various chemicals, food, alcohol, whatever on our brains!
 
There are no angels. The Bible was written by MEN about 1500 years before they figured out that the earth wasn't flat. I believe that it is a collection of stories and explanations written by ignorant (not stupid) people in an effort to explain what they were unable to understand. (Belief in Noah's Ark pushes the limit of my tolerance for gullibility.) I'm still trying to figure out how there can be a "version" (King James) of the word of God. Religion, ANY religion, is for the comfort of those who need it and to offer some type of explanation as to the purpose/meaning of life, however implausable. Religion is, at best, merely organized wishful-thinking...at worst, big business. I believe that man created God.
 
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Sunny said:
I was not dreaming, I was wide awake, and wondered who she was, and why she was standing by my bed. This illusion lasted probably for just a few seconds, then she went away. Afterwards, I googled the medications, and found that visual hallucinations were indeed one of the possible side effects of one of them. I called my doctor and made an adjustment; it's never happened again.

So.... what if, due to my early training, I was inclined to believe she was an angel? I would probably be arguing that this was "proof" that angels really do exist. I wonder how many religious miracles stemmed from the effects of various chemicals, food, alcohol, whatever on our brains!
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Very interesting story. Funny that the woman was someone you never met before. Sometimes I remember my dreams and always wonder why I dream of people I have never met. Does your ''angel'' or the people in my dream even exist?

I had to have my first dog, Ginger, euthanized after an expensive surgery and after her pancreas cancer returned. I was very upset about it for many days. I was working at my computer one night and at the side of my eyes I ''saw'' her walking, then I saw her looking back at me and then disappear. I looked and she was not there. The whole thing only lasted a few seconds. I KNOW it was just an illusion, probably my mind trying to get me to accept her death. I did feel better after that. The brain is our most complex and mysterious organ.
 
Having suffered an aortic aneurysm, my father "died" for three minutes while in helicopter transit to the hospital. When we told him about it later, his response was, "I guess that was my big chance to have an out of body experience but it didn't happen...nothing. That really pisses me off." You had to know my father to appreciate that statement. He wanted an answer and got nothing...because there IS nothing. That's proof enough for me.
 
Nautilus said:
Having suffered an aortic aneurysm, my father "died" for three minutes while in helicopter transit to the hospital. When we told him about it later, his response was, "I guess that was my big chance to have an out of body experience but it didn't happen...nothing. That really pisses me off." You had to know my father to appreciate that statement. He wanted an answer and got nothing...because there IS nothing. That's proof enough for me.
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Maybe when people die they're forced to sign an NDA by St Peter before passing through the golden gate? We never hear what really happens after we ''go home''
 
"Home" sounds boring as hell to me. (mixed metaphor) Is it some kind of ethereal existance without substance or meaning? What exactly does one DO for eternity? I'd ask them to send me back at age 18, retaining all the knowledge I've accumulated. (I wouldn't want to miss that blind date on which I met my wife.) Now THAT would be heaven to me!
 
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PVC said:
Maybe when people die they're forced to sign an NDA by St Peter before passing through the golden gate? We never hear what really happens after we ''go home''
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That's why it's called a near death experience....we come back to tell about what happened before actually dying. Once we're dead we don't come back to earth to talk about life after death. We won't want to come back!
 
Lara said:
That's why it's called a near death experience....we come back to tell about what happened before actually dying. Once we're dead we don't come back to earth to talk about life after death.
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Once we're dead, we don't come back to earth for the simple reason that we didn't go anywhere. We're dead.
 
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