Countdown to the Russian invasion of Ukraine

I think Putin is saber rattling as a warning to Ukraine not to join NATO. I don't think he will. Too many consequences.
 
from the Wall St Journal this morning-


"KYIV, Ukraine—U.S. officials are warning that Russia could be about to attack Ukraine. For many citizens in this embattled country, the assault has already begun.

Ukrainian officials say that Russia, which has positioned more than 100,000 troops around three sides of Ukraine, is stepping up a destabilization campaign involving cyberattacks, economic disruption and a new tactic: hundreds of fake bomb threats.

The tactics illustrate how Russian President Vladimir Putin can maintain pressure on Ukraine without escalating to a shooting war that could provoke sanctions from the West. Ukrainian officials say a destabilization campaign is more likely than a large-scale invasion."
https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia...threats-cyberattacks-ukraine-says-11644748413
 
David777 said:
Don't trust most news media stories about what is going on due to political agendas. First some of this is about aggressive NATO ambitions of their militarists that lost purpose after the USSR broke up.

https://www.vox.com/22900113/nato-ukraine-russia-crisis-clinton-expansion

Second, the following is a thorough primer including history going back centuries.

https://www.vox.com/2014/9/3/18088560/ukraine-everything-you-need-to-know
Click to expand...
Don't trust media political agendas? Good advice! But then you quote VOX? Careful, I think you just crossed the line.
 
David777 said:
Don't trust most news media stories about what is going on due to political agendas. First some of this is about aggressive NATO ambitions of their militarists that lost purpose after the USSR broke up.

https://www.vox.com/22900113/nato-ukraine-russia-crisis-clinton-expansion

Second, the following is a thorough primer including history going back centuries.

https://www.vox.com/2014/9/3/18088560/ukraine-everything-you-need-to-know
Click to expand...
And it should be pointed out that Crimea and the region immediately around Donetsk are populated by people who speak Russian, whose culture is Russian, and whose politics lean toward communism/socialism. Basically, the majority in those regions consider themselves Russian and want autonomy while Ukraine wants them to remain Ukrainian. I'm sure you know there have been 3 failed attempts to reach a mutually satisfying agreement.
 
Murrmurr said:
And it should be pointed out that Crimea and the region immediately around Donetsk are populated by people who speak Russian, whose culture is Russian, and whose politics lean toward communism/socialism. Basically, the majority in those regions consider themselves Russian and want autonomy while Ukraine wants them to remain Ukrainian. I'm sure you know there have been 3 failed attempts to reach a mutually satisfying agreement.
Click to expand...

Murrmurr said:
And it should be pointed out that Crimea and the region immediately around Donetsk are populated by people who speak Russian, whose culture is Russian, and whose politics lean toward communism/socialism. Basically, the majority in those regions consider themselves Russian and want autonomy while Ukraine wants them to remain Ukrainian. I'm sure you know there have been 3 failed attempts to reach a mutually satisfying agreement.
Click to expand...
Interesting how that Russianization came to be. The process, a Ukrainian holocaust, came to be known as the Holodomor.

"1930 -- 1.5 million Ukrainians in the countryside fall victim to Stalin’s “dekulakization” policies, Over the extended period of collectivization, armed dekulakization brigades forcibly confiscate land, livestock and other property, and evict entire families. Close to half a million individuals in Ukraine are dragged from their homes, packed into freight trains, and shipped to remote, uninhabited areas such as Siberia where they are left, often without food or shelter. A great many, especially children, die in transit or soon thereafter.
The remaining farmers are hounded to give up their land, livestock, and equipment and join the collective farms. As the traditional structures of rural livelihood disintegrate, the religious clergy are demonized and arrested or deported, and their churches destroyed or repurposed for grain storage or other secular use."
https://holodomorct.org/holodomor-facts-and-history/
 
Murrmurr said:
And it should be pointed out that Crimea and the region immediately around Donetsk are populated by people who speak Russian, whose culture is Russian, and whose politics lean toward communism/socialism. Basically, the majority in those regions consider themselves Russian and want autonomy while Ukraine wants them to remain Ukrainian. I'm sure you know there have been 3 failed attempts to reach a mutually satisfying agreement.
Click to expand...
Yes, that's true and wish we could find out how many Ukrainians are prepared to lay down their lives for this impending war, it's impossible to find out what the consensus of the people really is.
 
Murrmurr said:
And it should be pointed out that Crimea and the region immediately around Donetsk are populated by people who speak Russian, whose culture is Russian, and whose politics lean toward communism/socialism. Basically, the majority in those regions consider themselves Russian and want autonomy while Ukraine wants them to remain Ukrainian. I'm sure you know there have been 3 failed attempts to reach a mutually satisfying agreement.
Click to expand...
And WW II was begun with Hitler using the same excuse to annex the Sudetenland i.e. there were a lot of German speaking people there. The cost of that move to the rest of Europe, including Germany, was catastrophic.

It didn't end well for the Sudeten Germans either. Some background-

The Sudetenland is the historical German name for the northern, southern, and western areas of former Czechoslovakia which were inhabited primarily by Sudeten Germans. These German speakers had predominated in the border districts of Bohemia, Moravia, and Czech Silesia since the Middle Ages. Sudetenland had been since the 9th century an integral part of the Czech state (first within the Duchy of Bohemia and later the Kingdom of Bohemia) both geographically and politically.

The word "Sudetenland" did not come into being until the early part of the 20th century and did not come to prominence until almost two decades into the century, after the First World War, when Austria-Hungary was dismembered and the Sudeten Germans found themselves living in the new country of Czechoslovakia. The Sudeten crisis of 1938 was provoked by the Pan-Germanist demands of Germany that the Sudetenland be annexed to Germany, which happened after the later Munich Agreement. Part of the borderland was invaded and annexed by Poland. Afterwards, the formerly unrecognized Sudetenland became an administrative division of Germany. When Czechoslovakia was reconstituted after the Second World War, the Sudeten Germans were expelled and the region today is inhabited almost exclusively by Czech speakers.
 
ElCastor said:
Interesting how that Russianization came to be. The process, a Ukrainian holocaust, came to be known as the Holodomor.

"1930 -- 1.5 million Ukrainians in the countryside fall victim to Stalin’s “dekulakization” policies, Over the extended period of collectivization, armed dekulakization brigades forcibly confiscate land, livestock and other property, and evict entire families. Close to half a million individuals in Ukraine are dragged from their homes, packed into freight trains, and shipped to remote, uninhabited areas such as Siberia where they are left, often without food or shelter. A great many, especially children, die in transit or soon thereafter.
The remaining farmers are hounded to give up their land, livestock, and equipment and join the collective farms. As the traditional structures of rural livelihood disintegrate, the religious clergy are demonized and arrested or deported, and their churches destroyed or repurposed for grain storage or other secular use."
https://holodomorct.org/holodomor-facts-and-history/
Click to expand...
Yes, it was a pogrom on steroids. Most of those people were Jews.
 

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