Cultural marxism at work

All I can say about this is, don't look in the toilet expecting to find a tuna salad.
 

I know full well what a "straw man" is. You repeatedly post extremely condescending posts about me. I wish you would stop it. How would you like it if I kept posting snide remarks about you ? I also wish that you would learn how to argue without resorting to Ad Hominem.
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My goodness, Traveler, for someone who is constantly inciting arguments on this bb, taking outrageous positions and then stubbornly sticking to them no matter what anybody says, you certainly are touchy! The thing is, if you don't like the heat, don't keep setting fire to the kitchen.

Where did I ever say that YOU don't know the definition of "straw man?" Do you always take every statement this personally? Actually, I looked up the definition because the term popped into my head upon reading your arguments in this thread, and wanted to be sure that I remembered it correctly. And there it was, accurately depicting what's been going on here.

I never said or implied that you are unintelligent or uneducated. What I did say is that you have created a straw man argument in all its glory, in order to knock a fake premise down.

Here's another definition for you to mull over.

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Feminism: The advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes.

This (accurate) definition is obviously a far cry from your angry, vituperative straw man.
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For those who think I am beating a dead horse:

All I can say is what when feminists stop vilifying men, when feminists stop expecting special entitlements, when women stop ripping men's *******s out through their wallets, (via the divorce process), when men have equal rights in custody battles, when women stop using men as a meal ticket, and when feminists stop blaming men for all their problems, then, and only then, will I stop.

Feminists have had their run, and now tens of thousands of men are just beginning to awaken. What you hear from me is just the beginning. A small, but vocal, group of men are beginning to say, "NO !"

NO! We will not continue to work ourselves into an early grave to support you.

No! We will not attempt to rescue any women, ever.

No! We will not stay married to shrews.

No! We will not cater to your every whim and desire.

No! We will not be your eternal slaves any more.

No ! We will not bring you presents to win your affections.

No ! We will not surrender our manhood.

No! We will not even get married.

No ! Some of us have vowed to never, ever, make love to a woman. The price is just too high.

Just plain, NO !

Don't make the mistake of thinking this is about hatred. It is not about hatred. It is about the cost benefit ratio. It is about our very survival as men.

Shocking isn't it ? Well, get used to it. Men are beginning to awaken, once again.

NO !
 

Sunny said:
Where did I ever say that YOU don't know the definition of "straw man?" Do you always take every statement this personally? Actually, I looked up the definition because the term popped into my head upon reading your arguments in this thread, and wanted to be sure that I remembered it correctly. And there it was, accurately depicting what's been going on here.

I never said or implied that you are unintelligent or uneducated. What I did say is that you have created a straw man argument in all its glory, in order to knock a fake premise down.​
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So, you never said or implied that I was unintelligent or uneducated ? Read your own quotes !
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Sunny said:
Traveler Have you ever read, or seen, a play by Shakespeare? For that matter, have you ever read the Bible?
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Sunny said:

Have you read the book I recommended: "The Good Old Days - They Were Terrible?" Or any other history book?
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Don't play "Miss Innocent" with me.. It doesn't wash. You have done nothing but insult me --- personally.
 
This thread has once again sunk into a misogynist's wailing wall about women's mistreatment of men - completely ignoring the centuries of male mistreatment of women. Women were virtually held captive for their childbearing capabilities. In many cultures - including our own - in some areas - they were treated as property


"NO! We will not continue to work ourselves into an early grave to support you."
We haven't asked you to; that was originally the male's idea so the woman could stay home taking care of HIS children

"No! We will not attempt to rescue any women, ever."
Rescue is an action extended to people who need it (of either sex and any age) it is not a monopoly of need held by women only.

"No! We will not stay married to shrews" First of all, maybe there's something about your behavior that brings that behavior out in women. secondly, if a spouse of any gender is mistreating the other partner in any way, the mistreated partner should get out. Nagging and shrewish behavior is not confined to women My ex was a nag - he drove me nuts!

"No! We will not cater to your every whim and desire."
that should not be the case in any relationship. The "giver" is as much at fault as the "taker" for reinforcing that behavior. If you need to do that to "keep" that partner - they are not worth keeping.

"No! We will not be your eternal slaves any more." Again if you need to do that to "keep" a partner - you are as much at fault as they are!

"No ! We will not bring you presents to win your affections."
Again - your fault also!

"No ! We will not surrender our manhood."
Unless you cut off your testicles and your *****, that can't happen. The whole "manhood - womanhood" thing s culturally determined and no one has to buy into it. For the most part it's an artificial code of behavior that has little to do with being a human male or female.

"No! We will not even get married."
By all means, don't. I'm not a big fan of marriage either. Given your attitude towards women, you'll probably be saving some poor woman a lot of misery and unhappiness.

"No ! Some of us have vowed to never, ever, make love to a woman. The price is just too high."
Again Given your attitudes, you'd probably be doing some poor women a favor

This seems to be a real obsession with you; sounds like you could use some counseling to bring you some peace, if nothing else. Most emotionally healthy women do nor hate men, but they do tend to avoid men who have a negative attitude to women and they may not like some male behaviors towards women - just as men may not like some female behaviors by some women
 
DragonLady, I don't expect you to understand. I mean, seriously, how could you possibly understand. You've never been married to a woman; nor have you then lost 80% of your worldly possessions in divorce court, including the home you built with your own hands.
And, I'm willing to bet that you have never lost custody of your child and had your heart ripped out in the process.

When you have experienced every one of those things, then, and only then, might you understand.
 
Traveler said:
DragonLady, I don't expect you to understand. I mean, seriously, how could you possibly understand. You've never been married to a woman; nor have you then lost 80% of your worldly possessions in divorce court, including the home you built with your own hands.
And, I'm willing to bet that you have never lost custody of your child and had your heart ripped out in the process.
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I have been raped, beaten, tortured, terrorised, and left for dead, actions perpetrated by males. Horrific as it was, these monsters were an aberration, and in no way reflect the majority of men whom I am proud to call my brothers. ❤️
 
Wow, Shalimar. How horrible. You must be incredibly strong to have risen above that.

I must have lived a truly blessed life. Men have always been kind and friendly to me, I was married for 54 years to a devoted, loving man, and I've always had male as well as female friends. In fact, my son is one of my best friends, along with my two daughters. I don't see the world in terms of gender divisions of good and evil. It sounds like you are on the same page.

People are people, period. There are good and bad among all the divisions anyone can think up. It's sad that some people are squandering their time and energy on anger and bitterness.
 
Sunny said:
Wow, Shalimar. How horrible. You must be incredibly strong to have risen above that.

I must have lived a truly blessed life. Men have always been kind and friendly to me, I was married for 54 years to a devoted, loving man, and I've always had male as well as female friends. In fact, my son is one of my best friends, along with my two daughters. I don't see the world in terms of gender divisions of good and evil. It sounds like you are on the same page.

People are people, period. There are good and bad among all the divisions anyone can think up. It's sad that some people are squandering their time and energy on anger and bitterness.
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Thank you Sunny. I think strength is what one develops when there is nothing left except three choices, cope, go mad, or suicide. I refuse to allow anyone to break my spirit. Evil is not gender based. Neither is compassion. I spent a whole year stuck in a state of rage, that came far closer to destroying me than anything else ever did. I choose to live with my heart open, knowing full well the price of humanity is heartbreak, but the lack of it is anathema.
 
Traveler said:
DragonLady, I don't expect you to understand. I mean, seriously, how could you possibly understand. You've never been married to a woman; nor have you then lost 80% of your worldly possessions in divorce court, including the home you built with your own hands.
And, I'm willing to bet that you have never lost custody of your child and had your heart ripped out in the process.

When you have experienced every one of those things, then, and only then, might you understand.
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First of all, I was married to an alcoholic for 19 years. My bad that I didn't get out of it sooner. should I hate all men because of the emotional and occasional physical abuse I suffered? For a while I was pretty angry about it and had some bad feelings towards men., but I finally wised up after a couple of years and dealt with the fact that I was at least partly complicit. I didn't make a lifetime grievance against men. You're not the only person who's been hurt by the opposite sex. We all have been at one time or another. Your experience is not unique. I don't know who's encouraging you in your crusade against women, but they aren't doing you any favors. Maybe you should start looking at women as individual human beings who might make good friends rather than sexual objects who hold your manhood in their hand. No one can take away your "manhood" without your permission. You continually complain about your lousy relationships with women. Quit complaining about it and go do something about it - get some counseling!
 
SifuPhil said:
So from your own singular, personal experience you create a world-wide theory that covers everyone?

I believe that's called extrapolation.
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Are you under the impression that I, and I alone, have undergone these experiences ? If you take the time to think about it, I believe you will quickly realize that tens of millions of American me have had the exact same experiences. When millions of men begin to feel alike, then a very pronounced pattern is evident.
 
Dragonlady said:
First of all, I was married to an alcoholic for 19 years. My bad that I didn't get out of it sooner. should I hate all men because of the emotional and occasional physical abuse I suffered? For a while I was pretty angry about it and had some bad feelings towards men., but I finally wised up after a couple of years and dealt with the fact that I was at least partly complicit. I didn't make a lifetime grievance against men. You're not the only person who's been hurt by the opposite sex. We all have been at one time or another. Your experience is not unique. I don't know who's encouraging you in your crusade against women, but they aren't doing you any favors. Maybe you should start looking at women as individual human beings who might make good friends rather than sexual objects who hold your manhood in their hand. No one can take away your "manhood" without your permission. You continually complain about your lousy relationships with women. Quit complaining about it and go do something about it - get some counseling!
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(laughing) There is an old saying that comes to mind, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". When you realize "the house always wins", it's time to pick up your chips and go elsewhere. That is what I have chosen to do.
 
You seem to fully enjoy your self imposed misery, so of course, you will do nothing about it. I strongly suspect there are many more women who have been misused by men in their lives than vice versa. Most of these "mistreated" men are more likely reacting to the fact that they are no longer the undisputed boss in the relationship. Feminism represents a real threat to the old paternalistic power structure which is why some vilify the movement every chance they get
 
I spent a decade in counseling, best investment ever. Doesn’t cure everything, but it is a great journey of self discovery, and one learns many invaluable coping skills. Even an infj personality type such as myself learns to depersonalise things to some degree. We are all people under construction.
 
Shalimar said:
I spent a decade in counseling, best investment ever. Doesn’t cure everything, but it is a great journey of self discovery, and one learns many invaluable coping skills. Even an infj personality type such as myself learns to depersonalise things to some degree. We are all people under construction.
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Transactional Analysis, Eric Berne? I took the full test many years ago at work. I forget what I was then, and likely changed over the years.

I know there is a book that lets you take the test. And I have seen online tests, too. Might be interesting to do if there's any interest.
 
Olivia said:
Transactional Analysis, Eric Berne? I took the full test many years ago at work. I forget what I was then, and likely changed over the years.

I know there is a book that lets you take the test. And I have seen online tests, too. Might be interesting to do if there's any interest.
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Myers Briggs test, devloped from the work of Carl Jung.
 
Dragonlady said:
You seem to fully enjoy your self imposed misery, so of course, you will do nothing about it. I strongly suspect there are many more women who have been misused by men in their lives than vice versa. Most of these "mistreated" men are more likely reacting to the fact that they are no longer the undisputed boss in the relationship. Feminism represents a real threat to the old paternalistic power structure which is why some vilify the movement every chance they get
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Spoken like an old school, hardline feminist, playing the victim role right to the end. Sorry, but I no longer buy that anymore.

There is one great gaping hole in your argument. I have absolutely no wish to be anyone's "boss". Not a woman, Not another man. For, you see, I have reclaimed what is mine. I no longer need anyone's approval, especially not that of a woman. I am free from the shackles of women's desires to control men.

With the help and guidance of other men I've had a moment of sudden intuitive understanding, what some might call a "flash of insight". The only way to win, is to not play the game.

You, Dragonlady, accuse men of vilifying the feminist movement, but that is exactly what you are doing to the new, and rapidly growing, men's movement. Witness all of your put downs of every single thing I have said. But no matter. For it affects me not in the least.

I, for one, refuse to dance to the Sirens song. I no longer crave what women have been tempting men with since the dawn of time. I am free.
In the words of Martin Luther King, "Free at last. Free at last. Great God, almighty, free at last."
 
Traveler said:
(laughing) When you realize "the house always wins", it's time to pick up your chips and go elsewhere. That is what I have chosen to do.
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and yet.....yer still at it

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From the rationalwiki.org web site:

"Cultural Marxism? What the holy hell are you talking about?" - any sane person when exposed to the term for the first time

Cultural Marxism generally refers to one of two things:

  1. First — extremely rarely — "Cultural Marxism" refers to an obscure critique of popular culture by the Frankfurt School, framing culture as being imposed by a capitalist culture industry and consumed passively by the masses.
  2. Second — in common usage in the wild — "Cultural Marxism" is a snarl word used to paint anyone with progressive tendencies as a secret Communist. The term alludes to a conspiracy theory in which sinister left-wingers have infiltrated media, academia, and science and are engaged in a decades-long plot to undermine Western culture. Some variants of the conspiracy alleges that basically all of modern social liberalism is, in fact, a Communist front group.
This conspiracy theory hinges on the idea that the Frankfurt School wasn't just an arcane strain of academic criticism.[SUP][note 1][/SUP] Instead, the Frankfurt School was behind an ongoing Marxist plot to destroy the capitalist West from within, spreading its tentacles throughout academia and indoctrinating students to hate patriotism & freedom. Thus, rock'n'roll, Sixties counterculture, the civil rights movement, the anti-war movement, homosexuality,[SUP][1][/SUP] modern feminism, and in general all the "decay" in the West since the 1950s are allegedly products of the Frankfurt school.[SUP][2][/SUP] It's also the work of the Jews.[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP]
The conspiracist usage originated in Nazi Germany, where Kulturbolschewismus ("Cultural Bolshevism") was used to abuse political opponents. In particular, Jews purportedly were secretly orchestrating the spread of Communism ([COLOR=#477979 !important]Jewish Bolshevism[/COLOR][SUP][/SUP]) as well as promoting sexual & gender permissiveness ("sexual Bolshevism").[SUP][5][/SUP]
If anyone rants about "Cultural Marxists taking over culture!", feel free to remind them that they're literally spouting Nazi propaganda updated for the modern era.
 
Yep, Sunny you've about got it. That is except for the Jewish part. Modern day users of that term no longer consider Jews to be the hidden menace , or any menace at all for that matter. I most certainly do not. As a matter of fact you would have to look long and hard to find anyone who is a greater supporter of Israel than I.

In other threads I have gone into some detail regarding Cultural Marxism and I do not need to repeat myself. Not that it would do the slightest good even if I did.

I recognize the article. I've read it several times on the www and in any event I know those are not your words, but of some other liberal.


P.S. I find the "tag-team" approach to be rather amusing. Kind of a gang-bang in reverse.

You all must excuse me for tonight. I have a men's chat room group to attend in a few minutes.
 
Traveler said:
Spoken like an old school, hardline feminist, playing the victim role right to the end. Sorry, but I no longer buy that anymore.

There is one great gaping hole in your argument. I have absolutely no wish to be anyone's "boss". Not a woman, Not another man. For, you see, I have reclaimed what is mine. I no longer need anyone's approval, especially not that of a woman. I am free from the shackles of women's desires to control men.

With the help and guidance of other men I've had a moment of sudden intuitive understanding, what some might call a "flash of insight". The only way to win, is to not play the game.

You, Dragonlady, accuse men of vilifying the feminist movement, but that is exactly what you are doing to the new, and rapidly growing, men's movement. Witness all of your put downs of every single thing I have said. But no matter. For it affects me not in the least.

I, for one, refuse to dance to the Sirens song. I no longer crave what women have been tempting men with since the dawn of time. I am free.
In the words of Martin Luther King, "Free at last. Free at last. Great God, almighty, free at last."
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your biases are leading you astray. I am no victim nor do I profess to be one. I abandoned that when I left my alcoholic husband.. From where I sit you are the one playing victim. if you no longer need approval, then why are you still playing the "my ex wife screwed me" card.
"Playing the game" is a sure way to wreck any kind of relationship. Relationships that involve peoples feelings and emotions are not a game!
I never even mentioned the men's movement - let alone vilified it.
I don't think you are really free - or you wouldn't keep bringing it up.
Y
 
I bring it up because I am sick and tied of hearing the never ending diatribe of "women complaining how hard they have it because of men".
Women act like men are the cause of all your troubles. I've been hearing the same old, gynocentric sob story for the last 55 years. Poor, poor me. I'd be a C.E.O. by now if it wasn't for men oppressing me.

I've got a news flash for you. Men have valid complaints, also.

Western women have it the easiest life of any women on the planet. But it's never enough. No matter how much you have, it's never enough. More, more, always more. When women run out of current issues to complain about , you will go back a hundred years and bring up some thing about how hard your great-great-grandmother had it.

I brought it up to demonstrate that it is possible for men to have valid issues with women.

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Suffering is not limited to one gender, pain, like death, is a great leveler. I am in the pain recovery business. I support broken people regardless of gender, and part of recovery is letting go of intense anger. As long as one hangs on to it, one is never free. I learned that skiing on my nose in the gravel, (as I learned most things in my life.)
 

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