Do you believe in capital punishment?

Sunny

SF VIP
Location
Maryland
I see in today's news that a man who has been on death row in Missouri for years was hours away from his execution when DNA on the murder weapon definitely exonerated him. Things are on hold now, as the prosecution still insists that he was guilty, because he told two other prisoners that he had done it.

The article said that since DNA testing, the number of executions has gone way down. The number was in the hundreds, and by last year it had gone down to 30-something.

How do you feel about capital punishment Should it be ended once and for all? I say yes, as it's barbaric. This DNA thing proves that a substantial number of innocent people have been executed in the past. Most were black. Race is not always involved, though it often is. Where do you stand?
 

I have very strong feelings for it when it comes to anything violating a child, rape or murder....really strong feelings -- and the gurney is way too easy.
 

Yes, IF the guilty party has actually committed the crime for which he/she has been charged.

(I know all of the arguments forthcoming but the question IS "Do you believe in capital punishment ?)

So I said yes.
 
I see in today's news that a man who has been on death row in Missouri for years was hours away from his execution when DNA on the murder weapon definitely exonerated him. Things are on hold now, as the prosecution still insists that he was guilty, because he told two other prisoners that he had done it.

The article said that since DNA testing, the number of executions has gone way down. The number was in the hundreds, and by last year it had gone down to 30-something.

How do you feel about capital punishment Should it be ended once and for all? I say yes, as it's barbaric. This DNA thing proves that a substantial number of innocent people have been executed in the past. Most were black. Race is not always involved, though it often is. Where do you stand?

I do not believe in institutional revenge. We need to call it what it is. The US society in particular seems to have a need to punish people. People are so punished in prison that they have to take classes on how to rejoin society and have to live in half way houses for weeks or months. They are living on probation and may be sent back to prison on new felony charges if they violate the smallest terms of probation.

Revenge based incarceration leads to fear of the system. If you want people to come out of incarceration and return to society they must feel that they will have opportunities. They must have hope.

We have to get rid of for profit prisons. What do for profit prisons want? More money. They love that they get paid by the government. "We need more money because our prisoner count has gone down. Convict a few more please." Can't help but be a little sarcastic.

Am I soft on criminals? We need to change our laws so that the most disturbed of our criminals get indefinite jail terms. The punishment these people should endure is the loss of their freedom. These people lack social skills and need to be counseled and trained to rejoin society. If that takes 60 years so be it. But, no revenge should be taken. If a person has committed murder, rape with extreme harm to the victim, or other equally heinous crimes we could offer them the opportunity to take their own lives. In cases when there is a heinous crime and no possibility of redemption the death penalty may be an option to keep society safe. I would expect those cases to be rare. The Jeffery Daumer variety.

I could go on. Our system of justice is broken.
 
I think that in a few extreme cases the death penalty is justified, the problem is defining those few extreme cases.

I also have come to believe that prison is pretty much a waste of time and money for most criminals.

IMO most criminals should remain in the community, under close supervision by a probation program, be required to work and support themselves, their families and pay a portion of their income in the form of restitution to a victims relief fund for a period of time to be determined by the courts. If they don't conform to the terms of the sentence then incarcerate them as a last resort.
 
I think that in a few extreme cases the death penalty is justified, the problem is defining those few extreme cases.

I also have come to believe that prison is pretty much a waste of time and money for most criminals.

IMO most criminals should remain in the community, under close supervision by a probation program, be required to work and support themselves, their families and pay a portion of their income in the form of restitution to a victims relief fund for a period of time to be determined by the courts. If they don't conform to the terms of the sentence then incarcerate them as a last resort.

We need to listen to our scholars. The people who really understand the nature of crime. It is pointless to take revenge on criminals. How does that serve to stop crime when our jails are filled to overflowing?
 
No! Our legal system is composed of people and people are fallible. Too often there are erroneous convictions due to just plain error or deliberate misuse of the legal system. Witnesses make erroneous (or deliberate) ID's of perps. Judges are biased (or just plain crooked) The poor and minorities are disproportionately represented among the ranks of the death row inmates (the wealthy rarely get convicted). Our system is, unfortunately not perfect enough to judge life or death
 
No! Our legal system is composed of people and people are fallible. Too often there are erroneous convictions due to just plain error or deliberate misuse of the legal system. Witnesses make erroneous (or deliberate) ID's of perps. Judges are biased (or just plain crooked) The poor and minorities are disproportionately represented among the ranks of the death row inmates (the wealthy rarely get convicted). Our system is, unfortunately not perfect enough to judge life or death

I agree that what you say is true sometimes. But, our entire system is based on taking revenge. That is why people are treated like animals in prison. This is where the permanent us/them can be learned. I have known plenty of men and a few women who spent some long term jail time. I found these people in AA. They were learning to live spiritual lives, despite the way they had been treated. Many are not like that.

There are those that have been punished so long that they have lost their humanity.

Why teach people that they are not human? That is what we do, but ignore that we do it.

We can no longer be unconscious about things.
 
Absolutely. What I would do away with if I were dictator is prison.

And no fines either.

Fines are too easy on the rich and too hard on the poor.

For the more heinous crimes the punishment would be execution.

For mid range crimes it would be floggings with the severity of the flogging commensurate with the severity of the crime.

And for minor offenses you spend the day in the stocks getting rotten eggs thrown at you.
 
Mostly no, but what about serial killers, like Ted Bundy, the Green River Killer, Ken Bianci - Hillside Strangler, Jeffrey Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy, to name a few? They tortured and killed, sometimes young girls. It's hard to let that go.
 
Whenever I am asked this question I answer "Timothy Evans"

He was an educationally sub=normal man executed in in the UK in 1960 for the murder of his wife and baby dauuter.

He maintained his innocence to the end, blaming another man who lived in the same house.

The house was 10 Rillington Place, and the man was John Reginald Halliday Christie, later convicted of murdering eight women, six of them in the same house, 10 Rillington Place.

Do I believe in capital punishment? A thousand times No!
 
Whenever I am asked this question I answer "Timothy Evans"

He was an educationally sub=normal man executed in in the UK in 1960 for the murder of his wife and baby dauuter.

He maintained his innocence to the end, blaming another man who lived in the same house.

The house was 10 Rillington Place, and the man was John Reginald Halliday Christie, later convicted of murdering eight women, six of them in the same house, 10 Rillington Place.

Do I believe in capital punishment? A thousand times No!


I quite agree with you Laurie, when ever people bang on in this country to bring back hanging, the Timothy Evans case springs to mind.......hanging one innocent person is one too many in my estimation........No! no! no! is my answer to capital punishment.
 
Absolutely. What I would do away with if I were dictator is prison.

And no fines either.

Fines are too easy on the rich and too hard on the poor.

For the more heinous crimes the punishment would be execution.

For mid range crimes it would be floggings with the severity of the flogging commensurate with the severity of the crime.

And for minor offenses you spend the day in the stocks getting rotten eggs thrown at you.

This is what we want to get away from. Corporal punishment has never worked as a deterrent. This is why we have an appeals court.
 
Last edited:
I am pretty sure that now days, in the USA it actually costs more to execute someone than to just keep them in prison for life. There are countless appeals and it takes an incredible amount of time to execute them. So what's the point?
 
Mostly no, but what about serial killers, like Ted Bundy, the Green River Killer, Ken Bianci - Hillside Strangler, Jeffrey Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy, to name a few? They tortured and killed, sometimes young girls. It's hard to let that go.

I believe in the principle that the punishment should fit the crime. Again if I were dictator people who tortured their victims would be executed Medieval style.
 
Mostly no, but what about serial killers, like Ted Bundy, the Green River Killer, Ken Bianci - Hillside Strangler, Jeffrey Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy, to name a few? They tortured and killed, sometimes young girls. It's hard to let that go.

You mean it is difficult to put aside our anger and demand justice/revenge. I used to think like that. One of the problems I ran into is that I felt so angry that it caused me to have pain in my chest. When I finally noticed it I decided that I did not want to feel like that. Then I had to ask myself why I felt that way.

It was because, during my childhood and as a young adult, I had been taught that it was OK to be righteously angry. "These people are evil. It is my duty to be angry". My self righteous anger at these times could turn into a violent rage. It we are taught to be angry that is what we practice.

One day I was driving to work a woman cut me off in from a merge lane. She damn near hit my car. Only missed it by about 3 inches. I was in an immediate rage. I chased her car. I was going to cut her off and see how she liked it. After a few miles of anger and rage I finally got to work and calmed down. And I noticed that uncomfortable feeling in my chest. I hated that feeling. It made me feel sad. I wasn't afraid of a heart attack. But that dull pain was something I hated.

The next morning I was fine, I was again driving to work. I wasn't upset. But when I hit that place where she cut me off the inner conversation started and by the time I got to work I had had her hanged and dragged around behind a car and hanged again. And there was the chest pain. This went on for a few weeks because I am a man and naturally stupid. I was triggered every time I hit that location I was starting the inner conversation.

So the next time, when I hit that spot I noticed myself becoming angry. I began to talk to myself and I yelled at myself to stop. I felt the chest pain immediately. It took me weeks of driving across that place, having to stop my anger and give myself the reminder that I had to change my feelings If I did not want to hurt inside.

After a while of having the conscious awareness to stop my feelings and get off, it worked. I drove past that place one morning and did not have the anger any longer. I realized right then that I had been giving myself permission to be angry, but all during my life I had been doing just that. During my childhood my parents modeled their "righteous anger" so I learned it was OK to be angry with people. This shaped my interaction with people. "Don't cross me or I will come after you."

This one episode changed my life. From that time to this I have live a peaceful life. I have serenity because I stopped my anger. I no longer hate people because I feel that they did me wrong. I no longer hate politicians because they are evil. I am not perfect I will sometimes take it back, but I will notice eventually and stop it once more. And I no longer have that pain in my chest.

I no longer hate people like serial killers because without my anger I can see how mentally ill these people are. I am sad for them. I understand that these people had so much anger in their lives they killed people in the most terrible of ways. Someone likely abused them for years.

Do I think these people should go free? No, of course not. I think that they should be locked up for the rest of their lives. I doubt if these people can be redeemed. I would offer them the chance to commit suicide. They could be in an enormous amount of pain. Ultimately, mental illness or not I would recommend execution for society's sake. I would do none of this out of anger.
 
I quite agree with you Laurie, when ever people bang on in this country to bring back hanging, the Timothy Evans case springs to mind.......hanging one innocent person is one too many in my estimation........No! no! no! is my answer to capital punishment.

That's certainly a travesty of justice. Hopefully now, with DNA evidence something like tat can be avoided. Or at least the risk greatly diminished. However , again, under the scenario of me as Dictator, the Timothy Evans case would not b enough to get Dick Cheney off the hook for his war crimes. The way I'd like to see him done is to have a surgeon remove that new heart of his while he is awake and conscious so that it can be given to someone else that truly deserves it.
 

  • Like
Reactions: Bee

Back
Top