Equality for men

Traveler

Traveler

Senior Member
Location
San Diego County
For the last 100 years women have been demanding, and receiving, more and more equality. Ok, fair enough ! But should this not also be a 2-way street ?

What about men ? Do we not also deserve equality ? Men, overwhelmingly, are still considered the primary bread winners. True, some women do out earn men, but that is a tiny fraction of all 2 income households. The primary responsibility for all men, world-wide, is to provide. In todays world, that is an outmoded sexist concept. It needs to change.

And what about equality in the family court ? While it is true that a few men do gain full and complete custody of the children, the odds of that happening are slim if the woman is also seeking custody. This too needs to change.

During times of national emergency men can be drafted into military service and forced to fight and possibly die or be mutilated. Women on the other hand are not even required to register for the draft at age 18. If women choose to join, that is their prerogative, but it is not required. Why ? Because they are female.

In the every day world of most couples, it is understood that he, the man, will do certain tasks. If, in the middle of the night, there is a noise that sounds like someone has broken into the house, it is universally accepted that the man will go and deal with the problem while the woman stays safe and calls 911 for help. Ok, fine. We are larger and better equipped to cope with such emergencies. Anyone who is truly honest will agree that it is HIS job because he is a man. But, God help the man who dares to say, or even suggest, that X, Y or Z is the woman's job to take care of any specific task. Seriously, people, can you even imagine what would happen if a man dared to say, " You're the woman, you're supposed to cook". LOL

Even in the every day world of dating, men are expected to be the one to put his ego on the line and ask her for a date. Do some women take on that role ? Yes, I suppose, but it's damn rare. So, why do women wait for the man to do the asking ? Quite simple really. Women recognize that THEY have the power and there is no way they are going to give that up.

When it come time to propose marriage, 99% of the time it is the man who must go through certain steps. First he must spend, on average 2 months wages to acquire a diamond ring. Now, when it comes time to "pop the question", what must he do ? Right ! You guessed it. He gets down on one knee, offering up the diamond, and pleads for her hand in marriage. The symbolism is inescapable. Once again SHE has the power and SHE is requiring him to acknowledge this fact.

So, what is to be done ? If women are demanding and receiving equality is it not also fair for the man to have the same ? If women want all the rights and privileges of a man AND simultaneously keep all of the rights and privileges of being a woman then the same should apply to men.
 

My goodness. I have been self supporting since I left high school. No man has ever supported me. I have never had a problem asking a man out, and, for that matter, I asked my Philly to marry me. Beat him to the punch. Loll. Told him I didn’t require an engagement ring. With respect, Traveler, I think we inhabit different worlds. In the world in which I live, women on average

earn 70 cents on the dollar while doing the same job as men. It is very difficult for them to get top flight jobs in the scientific community regardles of their credentials. Some men still treat me as if I am too feminine/emotionally fragile to do the tough job of being a psychotherapist. Particularly in dealing with vets suffering from PTSD.

More often than not, the same holds true in business. A woman’s career in politics is fraught with condescension, and sadly, often sexual harassment and sometimes assault. Same goes for careers in police, military, paramedics, and firefighters. It is getting better in trades. Equality in the workplace is a work in progress. As for a national emergency, here in Canada, we have had women serving in the Armed Forces

for a generation, submarines being the last holdout in early 2000s. Who knows what steps would be taken in the event of a major war? As for the division of labour, each according to their ability. Cooking and cleaning are gender neutral, heavy lifting, dealing with usually male burglers are not. (Shooting burglers in Canada is a risky business due to our gun laws.) Bearing children and

breastfeeding are also gender specific. Raising kids is not. Given that 65% of divorced fathers are delinquent in child support, I can understand a judge’s reluctance to award custody. In some cases that backfires, and children suffer, all mothers are not

good parents. There are some wonderful men who are fabulous dads, great fathers, sons, brothers, grampas, boyfriends, friends, and husbands. They treat women as equal partners, and we love them for it. My son is one of them, my fiancé also. I am blessed to have them in my life. I view men as my equals, I have no desire to have power over anyone but myself.
 
Just for fun.......
unwomen_gender_equality.jpg
 

Some random thoughts in blue

Traveler said:
For the last 100 years women have been demanding, and receiving, more and more equality. Ok, fair enough ! But should this not also be a 2-way street ?

What about men ? Do we not also deserve equality ? Men, overwhelmingly, are still considered the primary bread winners. True, some women do out earn men, but that is a tiny fraction of all 2 income households. The primary responsibility for all men, world-wide, is to provide. In todays world, that is an outmoded sexist concept. It needs to change.
World wide is beyond my capacity to comment. In our marriage I took leave of absence for one year for our first child then was not employed for two and a half year with the other. During those three and a half years we lived on one income which was hubby's. Later he took leave of absence for two years to study. Then we lived on my income. Early on his income was greater, later mine was. Before he retired I left work to care for our mothers and again he was the major breadwinner. I very much doubt that he wanted to trade places with me.

And what about equality in the family court ? While it is true that a few men do gain full and complete custody of the children, the odds of that happening are slim if the woman is also seeking custody. This too needs to change.
Our family court assumes joint custody unless there is a counter indication. When the children are old enough they have some say in the matter. For reasons of schooling and social activities some prefer a stable existence in one home but there is no automatic preference for the mother.

During times of national emergency men can be drafted into military service and forced to fight and possibly die or be mutilated. Women on the other hand are not even required to register for the draft at age 18. If women choose to join, that is their prerogative, but it is not required. Why ? Because they are female.
In times of national emergency women are expected to do their bit on the home front, as are civilians too old to fight. The home front is just as important to winning a war as the front line. Each collapses without the other. Civilians are called upon to work in the fields (women's land army) and in factories important to the supply of equipment, munitions, transport and clothing for front line troops. If you think wars will be won by keeping able bodied young men at home and sending women and old men to the front then you are rather blinkered in your thinking.

In the every day world of most couples, it is understood that he, the man, will do certain tasks. If, in the middle of the night, there is a noise that sounds like someone has broken into the house, it is universally accepted that the man will go and deal with the problem while the woman stays safe and calls 911 for help. Ok, fine. We are larger and better equipped to cope with such emergencies. Anyone who is truly honest will agree that it is HIS job because he is a man. But, God help the man who dares to say, or even suggest, that X, Y or Z is the woman's job to take care of any specific task. Seriously, people, can you even imagine what would happen if a man dared to say, " You're the woman, you're supposed to cook". LOL
LOL indeed at the thought of men armed only with baseball bats creeping downstairs to do battle with burglar swhile the little woman cowers upstairs in her negligee after ringing the police is truly risable. I'm the one who had to capture big hairy spiders in our house before removing to the garden.

Even in the every day world of dating, men are expected to be the one to put his ego on the line and ask her for a date. Do some women take on that role ? Yes, I suppose, but it's damn rare. So, why do women wait for the man to do the asking ? Quite simple really. Women recognize that THEY have the power and there is no way they are going to give that up.
Queen Elizabeth II has all of the power in the royal marriage. It was she who proposed to Phillip and he had to give up his surname and his career in the Royal Navy. I suppose there are men who would like to have women make all of the moves, but not many.

When it come time to propose marriage, 99% of the time it is the man who must go through certain steps. First he must spend, on average 2 months wages to acquire a diamond ring. Now, when it comes time to "pop the question", what must he do ? Right ! You guessed it. He gets down on one knee, offering up the diamond, and pleads for her hand in marriage. The symbolism is inescapable. Once again SHE has the power and SHE is requiring him to acknowledge this fact.
See above. Old Chinese proverb - be careful what you wish for.

So, what is to be done ? If women are demanding and receiving equality is it not also fair for the man to have the same ? If women want all the rights and privileges of a man AND simultaneously keep all of the rights and privileges of being a woman then the same should apply to men.
Women are not demanding equality. All we want is a fair go - economic independence, not to be discriminated against and control of our own fertility. Would you stand in the way of these goals?
Click to expand...
 
Men have so many more freedoms on so many levels than women have had for centuries. We're just catching up. While men are bread-winners, often women contribute to the family income, while raising children, providing nourishing meals, caring for the home, providing love and tenderness as well as all at home medical care. Raising decent well adjusted children is absolutely THE hardest job there is. Our future depends on this.

I think men and women should mutually respect each other. Women's lib only started because women wanted what men have enjoyed all along, equal pay for equal work and sexual freedom.
 
m/What Shalimar said!! Many many years ago I was left with 2 kids to support by myself with court ordered child support that I never got. Why, because back then enforcing child support orders were the last thing police worried about. My law enforcement brother who lived in another state said they were so swamped with murder, rape etc, cases child support warrants were the least of their worries. I worked 3 jobs doing the same jobs as men and earned a lot less than them. So don't tell me about equality for men!!! When I finally got a warrant for his arrest, he quit his job, worked rat construction and could not be found. I had no money to track him as I was trying to take care of 2 young children. I did not go on welfare or food stamps and I made it and I never looked back. Finally women are getting the respect and money they deserve. I have been through the sexual harassment and found that a well placed slap on the face ended my problems with that along with a couple of employers that made it crystal clear to the men involved that they would be fired if it happened again. I was blessed to work for two men that respected my work and when it came raise time told me to raise myself whatever amount I needed as they knew I would not take advantage of them.
 
Shalimar will love this one.

If men want to be equal with women, the women will all have to have lobotomies!


(I used to work, the only male , in an all female hall of residence. That was one of the milder jibes I got on a daily, nay hourly, basis. I was never o well off for hugs though!).
 
The diamond ring thing is kind of a puzzlement to me. In this day and age, it seems kind of silly and anachronistic. Plus all the other quaint customs surrounding proposals (getting down on one knee, etc.). Even asking the woman's parents for their approval is still done sometimes, though it's more a charming symbol of respect. But a lot of these marriage customs do seem to die hard, equality or not.
 
I'm all for equality, and always treated the chicks who worked for me very well.....:cool:


On a more serious note, how do you feel about the custom of women changing their last name to match the man's name?
 
Laurie said:
Shalimar will love this one.

If men want to be equal with women, the women will all have to have lobotomies!


(I used to work, the only male , in an all female hall of residence. That was one of the milder jibes I got on a daily, nay hourly, basis. I was never o well off for hugs though!).
Click to expand...
Hahahahaha. Laurie, you are adorable. ♥️
 
terry123 said:
m/What Shalimar said!! Many many years ago I was left with 2 kids to support by myself with court ordered child support that I never got. Why, because back then enforcing child support orders were the last thing police worried about. My law enforcement brother who lived in another state said they were so swamped with murder, rape etc, cases child support warrants were the least of their worries. I worked 3 jobs doing the same jobs as men and earned a lot less than them. So don't tell me about equality for men!!! When I finally got a warrant for his arrest, he quit his job, worked rat construction and could not be found. I had no money to track him as I was trying to take care of 2 young children. I did not go on welfare or food stamps and I made it and I never looked back. Finally women are getting the respect and money they deserve. I have been through the sexual harassment and found that a well placed slap on the face ended my problems with that along with a couple of employers that made it crystal clear to the men involved that they would be fired if it happened again. I was blessed to work for two men that respected my work and when it came raise time told me to raise myself whatever amount I needed as they knew I would not take advantage of them.
Click to expand...
You have my respect. ♥️
 
Shalimar said:
My goodness. I have been self supporting since I left high school. No man has ever supported me. I have never had a problem asking a man out, and, for that matter, I asked my Philly to marry me. Beat him to the punch. Loll. Told him I didn’t require an engagement ring. With respect, Traveler, I think we inhabit different worlds. In the world in which I live, women on average

earn 70 cents on the dollar while doing the same job as men. It is very difficult for them to get top flight jobs in the scientific community regardles of their credentials. Some men still treat me as if I am too feminine/emotionally fragile to do the tough job of being a psychotherapist. Particularly in dealing with vets suffering from PTSD.

More often than not, the same holds true in business. A woman’s career in politics is fraught with condescension, and sadly, often sexual harassment and sometimes assault. Same goes for careers in police, military, paramedics, and firefighters. It is getting better in trades. Equality in the workplace is a work in progress. As for a national emergency, here in Canada, we have had women serving in the Armed Forces

for a generation, submarines being the last holdout in early 2000s. Who knows what steps would be taken in the event of a major war? As for the division of labour, each according to their ability. Cooking and cleaning are gender neutral, heavy lifting, dealing with usually male burglers are not. (Shooting burglers in Canada is a risky business due to our gun laws.) Bearing children and

breastfeeding are also gender specific. Raising kids is not. Given that 65% of divorced fathers are delinquent in child support, I can understand a judge’s reluctance to award custody. In some cases that backfires, and children suffer, all mothers are not

good parents. There are some wonderful men who are fabulous dads, great fathers, sons, brothers, grampas, boyfriends, friends, and husbands. They treat women as equal partners, and we love them for it. My son is one of them, my fiancé also. I am blessed to have them in my life. I view men as my equals, I have no desire to have power over anyone but myself.
Click to expand...

Your personal experience is not the norm.
 
Shalimar said:
I disagree. For many women, it is the new norm. The fact that in Canada more women are now in university than men is a harbinger of more to come.
Click to expand...

It doesn't make any difference for the level of education except for earning power.

Harbinger of things to come.? For the better or for the worse.?

Men are finding out that the trades are the way to go for financial stability and forget about university.

A carpenter, plumber, electrician, can always find a job.

Not too many women want to pursue the trades.
 
Camper6 said:
It doesn't make any difference for the level of education except for earning power.

Harbinger of things to come.? For the better or for the worse.?

Men are finding out that the trades are the way to go for financial stability and forget about university.

A carpenter, plumber, electrician, can always find a job.

Not too many women want to pursue the trades.
Click to expand...
Actually, that is changing. I live near a mill town. I personally know two female millwrights, three electricians, and one welder. On the other hand, my son’s wife graduated from law school, currently studying to pass the board.
 

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