France makes abortion a constitutional right as the first country worldwide

@Jeni, I agree with you in your post #20.

My one SIL is a retired nurse. If she & her husband went past an anti-abortion protest, she would hang out of the car window & scream at them. For about a year or so, she worked at an abortion clinic. She told me that a majority of the abortions were being used as a method of birth control. Some were repeat customers.

Then there were the couples, who for medical reasons, had an abortion. It tore those parents up because they really wanted a child. It wasn't easy for them & it was something they had to live with. I only hope they were able to find peace & was able to go on together & were blessed with other children.

My SIL quit after seeing what was happening & I hadn't ever heard her talk about supporting abortions again. What she witnessed herself changed her view.

Until I heard that from her first hand, I was neither for or against it. After that, I can only see it if it was a medical necessity or in case of a rape/incest. I can't support open ended abortion.

@ProTruckDriver, your not alone in your experience. I am also tired of hearing that it's always the man's fault. Generally it's that he caused the pregnancy & then wouldn't take responsibility. That isn't always the case as many like to think.
 
PeppermintPatty said:
In Canada 🇨🇦 there is no law that criminalizes or retricts abortion. Abortion is publicly funded as a medical procedure.
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That's pretty much the Australian position. However, to get to this position abortion was decriminalised by each state separately. Now termination is just another procedure carried out in public and private hospitals.I remember the days when it was a criminal offence for a doctor to terminate a pregnancy. Women and girls died from blood loss and bacterial infection after having back alley abortions.

The point that should never be overlooked is that no woman in Australia is forced to terminate a pregnancy, nor to continue a pregnancy that is dangerously life threatening. The law only demands that the procedure is performed by fully qualified professionals.
 

Holly, here's one summary I found:

Roe versus Wade, better known as Roe v. Wade, is the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion within the first two months of pregnancy. Up until then, individual state laws regulated abortions, thereby forcing women to illegal clinics or untrained practitioners. The lack of proper medical supervision in these situations was dangerous for the women.

The current Supreme Court reversed this ruling, so now it's up to the individual states again.
 
hollydolly said:
right...well I'm happy that's been cleared up because I thought I didn't hear anything about it being banned in the US..
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Some of the states are banning it, so effectively yes it has become illegal in some places. They are going after the doctors, so now doctors are afraid to treat women and risk being charged with murder. There was a woman in one of the states who went to an emergency room because she was miscarrying and didn't get treated and went home and miscarried and then her state tried to charge her with murder.
 
HoneyNut said:
Some of the states are banning it, so effectively yes it has become illegal in some places. They are going after the doctors, so now doctors are afraid to treat women and risk being charged with murder. There was a woman in one of the states who went to an emergency room because she was miscarrying and didn't get treated and went home and miscarried and then her state tried to charge her with murder.
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Whaaaat?:eek::eek::eek:
 
ProTruckDriver said:
It's a shame the way the world is going. There are plenty of adoption agencies that will gladly give these baby's a home instead of killing them before they are born and in some cases killing them at birth.
Back in my younger years, early 20's when my testosterone were raging my girlfriend became pregnant and she didn't tell me. She had an abortion without telling me. I found out from friends. We did go our separate ways later. To this day, and I'm in my 70's, when abortion is mentioned I still think of what kind of daughter / son we would have had. So this is not a woman's right only, I believe the man has his say in this also. I would have said No to the abortion and if we couldn't afford the new born we'd set up for adoption.
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So the question then becomes and especially in. the USA where giving birth can be costly, who supports the woman who is pregnant? How many guys will step up to the plate and make a 'temporary' home for her? Lots of men want to just pretend it's someone else's problem.
 
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HoneyNut said:
Some of the states are banning it, so effectively yes it has become illegal in some places. They are going after the doctors, so now doctors are afraid to treat women and risk being charged with murder. There was a woman in one of the states who went to an emergency room because she was miscarrying and didn't get treated and went home and miscarried and then her state tried to charge her with murder.
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Exactly...
https://www.cnn.com/us/abortion-access-restrictions-bans-us-dg/index.html
 
hollydolly said:
you mean not ANOTHER one....:sneaky:
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I think. the context makes ANOTHER one reasonable. You have people saying the moment that sperm penetrates the egg, it's a full blown person and those folks have caused laws to be changed in that regard. There are some who are also advocating that women who travel to another state to access abortion, be jailed for murder. And one woman who miscarried into the toilet at home and then flushed it, had to go to court to defend herself against defiling a human body! Following up on eliminating 'Roe v. Wade', means the issue is significant' to women in America. One step in erasing a 'group's' autonomy?

When you think of pregnancy now, think of The Handmaid's Tale. It's almost like Margaret Atwood was gifted with precognition😳
 
Debrah N. said:
So the question then becomes and especially in. the USA where giving birth can be costly, who supports the woman who is pregnant? How many guys will step up to the plate and make a 'temporary' home for her? Lots of men want to just pretend it's someone else's problem.
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If it's a dead beat father that will not support the woman and the birth, the woman has Medicaid, Welfare, places of Charity and other places that will pay for the costs. It's happening right now in the USA. Let's not blame it all on the men for pregnancies, as the good old saying goes, it takes two to tango. Most of the time both woman and man are to blame.
 
gruntlabor said:
These things are not for us to judge. Abortion is a profound philosophical question which politicians are not qualified to answer. We also should avoid the question, and pass no laws or judgments on the subject, my opinion.
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You have said a truth here that I agree with. It IS philosophical/religious. It does not belong in politics at all, ever. End of story!
 
So us guys have how much investment in bringing a child into the world? Maybe a 3-5 minute experiance that in most cases is quite
pleasurable. On the other hand the woman has nine months a significan amount of which is quite uncomfortable, or so I hear. So should we have an equal say in whether or not she wants to go through with it?
 
ProTruckDriver said:
If it's a dead beat father that will not support the woman and the birth, the woman has Medicaid, Welfare, places of Charity and other places that will pay for the costs. It's happening right now in the USA. Let's not blame it all on the men for pregnancies, as the good old saying goes, it takes two to tango. Most of the time both woman and man are to blame.
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Why is it though, when people talk about this issue, the men responsible (too) almost never are mentioned? Talk of jailing women, women going to court, speaking as though those women are dreadful people..... she alone bears the stigma. Even your own comment which suggests SHE deal with it by going to charity and programs that some politicians are desperate to cut back on, and then you caution to 'not blame the men entirely'. As I said, men are rarely mentioned in any discussion on abortion. It's like pro birth people all think immaculate conception happened in those instances so bashing the women involved is acceptable.
 
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Termination here is only permitted up to 24 weeks...except in exceptional circumstances.

I have to say I was astonished to read that 1 in 3 pregnancies in the UK are terminated... not judging, but very surprised.

I knew a woman... many of you will know here, I'm not naming names but she was a Big TV star in the UK.. and many will know her in the rest of the world from her films...

I worked with her as did my husband .... and socialised with her occasionally , so I knew her pretty well .. and she used Abortion like a contraceptive. She admitted to 5... there could possibly have been more..
 
hollydolly said:
Termination here is only permitted up to 24 weeks...except in exceptional circumstances.

I have to say I was astonished to read that 1 in 3 pregnancies in the UK are terminated... not judging, but very surprised.

I knew a woman... many of you will know here, I'm not naming names but she was a Big TV star in the UK.. and many will know her in the rest of the world from her films...

I worked with her as did my husband .... and socialised with her occasionally , so I knew her pretty well .. and she used Abortion like a contraceptive. She admitted to 5... there could possibly have been more..
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It's an unfortunate truth that some women do behave like that but it shouldn't prevent other girls and women who have some extenuating situation maybe once in their lives, from accessing that kind of medical assistance.
 
hollydolly said:
No I didn't infer that it should
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I know you didn't, but for the sake of some people, the connections or statements must be made in all kinds of situations. The one thing I've become amazed at in the last ten years, is the inability of so many to read between the lines or simply, put two and two together. I swear, sometimes it seems like education was suspended and ended and humanity is winging it these days.
 
As I stated previously, I am anti abortion, but pro choice. Anti abortion because I don't think it's something that should be a casual choice. However, ultimately, it's up to the woman to make a decision that is best for them. Abortions in the early weeks is especially important, because I don't buy this "it's a human" argument at all. I think that's simply an emotional suggestion to heap guilt on those who choose not to have a child.

Adoption is a great option, but it's not without pain for the mother. I prefer this option, but again, I can't dictate to a woman that their body should be altered to satisfy the need of a third party. I just don't understand how any country that purports to respect personal freedoms can ban abortion.
 
hollydolly said:
right...well I'm happy that's been cleared up because I thought I didn't hear anything about it being banned in the US..
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Abortion is available in the US and hasn't been banned in all states. There are some prohibitions (43 states) but it's predicated on a certain point in the pregnancy. Exceptions are also supported in some states. Some states are terribly restrictive and have civil and criminal penalties. Others are very protective of the right and offer statutory protections in the state constitution.
 
birdy said:
Abortion is available in the US and hasn't been banned in all states. There are some prohibitions (43 states) but it's predicated on a certain point in the pregnancy. Exceptions are also supported in some states. Some states are terribly restrictive and have civil and criminal penalties. Others are very protective of the right and offer statutory protections in the state constitution.
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thanks for that explanation, Birdy
 
ProTruckDriver said:
If it's a dead beat father that will not support the woman and the birth, the woman has Medicaid, Welfare, places of Charity and other places that will pay for the costs. It's happening right now in the USA. Let's not blame it all on the men for pregnancies, as the good old saying goes, it takes two to tango. Most of the time both woman and man are to blame.
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Debrah N. said:
Why is it though, when people talk about this issue, the men responsible (too) almost never are mentioned? Talk of jailing women, women going to court, speaking as though those women are dreadful people..... she alone bears the stigma. Even your own comment which suggests SHE deal with it by going to charity and programs that some politicians are desperate to cut back on, and then you caution to 'not blame the men entirely'. As I said, men are rarely mentioned in any discussion on abortion. It's like pro birth people all think immaculate conception happened in those instances so bashing the women involved is acceptable.
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Both are to blame, the mother and the father of the baby.

Let me tell you why I am against aborting a baby because the parents just don't want the child:

I've been close to death too many times in my lifetime. First being born. My mother had a very difficult time and I almost died at birth several times, they didn't think I would make it.

As you all know hospitals were very different in early 1950's, not as high tech as today's hospitals. My parents would never tell us kids (I had two (late) older sisters) what happen at my birth. We got bits and pieces to what happen but not the full story.

There were several other times as a teenager I've been close to death and several times in the military also.

Now in 2012 being diagnosed with leukemia and still fighting it with never receiving any cancer fighting drugs to this day. I believe I've been blessed. I'm sure glad my mother didn't say pull the plug at my birth when the doctors were working on me.
 

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