I need to rage a bit

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Gardenlover said:
I recently had two guests, a niece and her friend. Things were going well for the most part, although they kept putting in little digs on how males were accountable for everything that is wrong in the world. Two nights ago it came to a head when the friend started raging on America and capitalism. She's enjoying all the fruits of our great country, yet she feels socialism is the answer. Everyone should be equal, regardless if they attempt to pull their own weight or not. The government should pay for everything from healthcare, education, housing, and good paying jobs.

Now, I'm a live and let live kind of guy, but she had me blowing a gasket. She had no answers, only complaints. I truly fear for the state of what is to come with this mindset that seems to be growing.

I spoke with my son and he said misandrist is rampant and that he refuses to date anyone with this prejudice.
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The best way, in my opinion, is to suggest they read our Constitution with its attendant Bill of Rights. Let her consume that and blame all the men who signed it in good faith for all mankind. Then, and only then, may she engage you in any discussion such as you were subjected to. If she refused to even have the good sense to cease and desist, you would be within your rights to ask her to peacefully leave your home.

It may have caused a problem for your niece, but she already has a problem, and might have used better judgment before bringing her friend into your abode.
 

Pepper said:
I came back to delete my post but it's too late. I apologize @UpstateGal. I am very grumpy due to my computer dying and I shouldn't have made that post.
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Have a nice cup of tea my friend, read a humorous book or the like and relax. You'll be fine. It is a lousy day out there to say the least and what perked me up, was, 4 of our daffodil plants bloomed overnight. Even the dog sniffed them. šŸ¤—
 
Pepper said:
Bunch of old tired farts answered this thread. I pity you for getting so old you can't remember your youth and ideas and ideals you were exposed to. We grew up in an intellectually exciting times, the sixties. Don't you people remember your own youth? Complaining about youth is a very negative,envious thing to involve yourself in.
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...who are you calling a tired old Fart ????:eek:
 
smiley said:
harder to get on the ferries for free but I did ride them - gave one a sense of going abroad - you became an international traveler - set you up for life!!
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You know, it's true that people rush everywhere, each has their their own secret care. But on the ferry everyone smiles even though they don't know what your name is or even care. They won't turn you away no matter what.
 
spectratg said:
The problem (not the only one) with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money for the government to pay for all that healthcare, education, etc.
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Well, I suppose that's true, but a billion or two (or are the wealthiest among us up in the trillions by now?) could go a long way toward alleviating human misery.
 
Gardenlover said:
I recently had two guests, a niece and her friend. Things were going well for the most part, although they kept putting in little digs on how males were accountable for everything that is wrong in the world. Two nights ago it came to a head when the friend started raging on America and capitalism. She's enjoying all the fruits of our great country, yet she feels socialism is the answer. Everyone should be equal, regardless if they attempt to pull their own weight or not. The government should pay for everything from healthcare, education, housing, and good paying jobs.

Now, I'm a live and let live kind of guy, but she had me blowing a gasket. She had no answers, only complaints. I truly fear for the state of what is to come with this mindset that seems to be growing.

I spoke with my son and he said misandrist is rampant and that he refuses to date anyone with this prejudice.
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Your guest's convictions seem fanciful to me, and I might listen but I'd reject them. Thing is, I've visited countries in Europe that operate by social democracy (or democratic socialism) and one country elsewhere operating by more extreme socialism (i.e., Marxism or modified Marxism). These countries can't be viewed as identical with one another, but their social ideals always involved people pulling their weight. In the sense of contributing.

People who were lazy, completely undisciplined, or irresponsible wound up on the bottom of the social scale. The need for some form of social pragmatism always comes into play. Equality before the law may be a respected ideal, but there must be law and a system of law enforcement. Every society is faced with solving social challenges.

In my part of the world, I know a few people who have social ideals based on sentiment alone, but obviously no idea about how things can be practically managed. Most of these are nice people, but by no stretch of the imagination could they be society's leaders.
 
I have close family members who are truly card-carrying members of the DSA (Democratic Socialists of America). We rarely/never talk politics but when we do, it is spoken of in an intellectual and theoretical manner. During the pandemic lockdowns, I used some of that time studying the various forms of government vs. economy, with Socialism being at the top of the list. One cannot discuss or debate a topic unless one is educated on the other side's view.

One thing that many people do not understand is the difference between a socialist form of government and a socialist economy. There is a huge difference. When you hear the words, "Nowhere has socialism succeeded", you are speaking of the form of economy. Russia may have a socialist government but their economy is definitely capitalist. And Communist China has leaned into capitalism in the more recent past. When someone vehemently states that Socialism is the cure for it all, ask them if they mean economically or governmentally. There is a difference and I would bet they don't know and understand that.

Social programs are, indeed, offered in the US. Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Unemployment Benefits, Disability Benefits, SNAP, all of these are social programs.

And btw, Karl Marx, the so-called father of socialism (not true, he was just quoting others who came before him), clearly stated that socialism is the stepping stone to communism. Read his works and about his life. Interesting stuff. For most of his life, Marx was supported by his partner who contributed greatly to "Capital", whose father owned a successful manufacturing business that he managed. Hmm...Marx, his wife, and many children were supported by a rich capitalist?
 
wasn't it karl marx who went to columbia and fell in love with the artists wife, Frida?oh no that was Trostky I remember now - great u-tube viewing by the by
 
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your own novelist went to the Scandanavian block many moons before he wrote 'a walk in the woods' [bill bryson] I once had his auto-novel on that - he covered several countries and wanted to see the northern lights - He found a lot of them to be heavy drinkers? but I've seen plenty of 'happy' drinkers in my time
 
Pepper said:
You're something else @UpstateGal
Not allowed by rules of forum to stay why.
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Go ahead, make my day...lol. Seriously, sorry if my opinion triggered you to start name calling. But honestly, I have a stable and strong psyche and there isn't anything you can say that is going to upset me.

Maybe you need a THC gummy bear and a nap:).
 
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smiley said:
your own novelist went to the Scandanavian block many moons before he wrote 'a walk in the woods' [bill bryson] I once had his auto-novel on that - he covered several countries and wanted to see the northern lights - He found a lot of them to be heavy drinkers? but I've seen plenty of 'happy' drinkers in my time
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Alcohol is generally a luxury item if you can purchase it.
In Finland we could order wine but it was served when dinner was on the table. None for our indigenous guide. Everywhere else it was and is simply expensive.
When I worked a year in then Eastblock countries everyone was afloat in rotgut vodka. The good stuff was reserved, sold in specialty stores where you got everything else under the sun but needed entry rights and money. Preferably US$ or German Mark. Best under the hand currency - good socks, salami, US$ small bills. A hot bath on the Transsiberian Express - $5 cash! Forget nylons and lifstick.
 
Gardenlover said:
She's enjoying all the fruits of our great country, yet she feels socialism is the answer.
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YOU are the one enjoying the fruits, SHE is facing the consequences of you not doing your duty to protect the system you had. She is not going to be living in the times when unions could protect wages and benefits. She is not going to live in a time when companies have pension plans.
She is not living in a time where she could get proper medical care if she suffers a miscarriage.
She is living in a time when many more species will go extinct, the amount of environmental contamination will increase, most jobs will be lost to AI (AI will take the good satisfying jobs that require creativity and thinking, not like the drudgery jobs that automation took over in your life).
YOU had democracy and democratic allies, but she is facing life in an oligarchy aligned with dictator-led countries and having to live under a corrupt and oppressive political system that treats her as a disadvantaged minority.
YOU lived when Horatio Alger stories were possible, and anti-trust actions were happening (remember the increase in our choices after Ma-Bell was broken up?), she is living in a time when small and medium companies are unfairly forced out by the giant corporations.
YOU lived in an era where freedom was celebrated and individual rights were increasing, she is facing the exact opposite.
YOU lived when old people had Social Security, she is facing a life where all services will be run just like the UHC CEO's of taking peoples money for a service and then denying them 37% of the time. That makes the victims of those systems very angry, and she is going forward into an era where all systems will devolve to similar ones.

YOU were asleep at the wheel while insidious changes were going on that killed the plant that was producing the fruits you are enjoying.

Your lifetime probably wouldn't fare well if you had to start out as a young person right now, maybe you wouldn't see socialism as an answer, maybe you would prefer a violent revolution instead? Or would you just lie there and take it?
 

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