National guard troops to the border

Traveler

Traveler

Senior Member
Location
San Diego County
It was announced today that U.S. National Guard troops would be sent to the U.S./Mexican border in a back-up role supporting the Border agents. The border agents have only 16,000 personnel in place, and that is woefully short of what is needed.

Last month alone, the border agents arrested 37,393 illegal aliens as they crossed the border. That is an astronomical number of people. Most of them have been apprehended multiple times. Some, not all of them, are drug smugglers and other criminal types.

Last week, when I spoke with an agent at the border, he told me they find many different nationalities illegally crossing the border, Primarily, he said, they are Mexicans but also Russians, Africans, Chinese, and other Central American nations and South Americans as well.

I live within sight of the border and I see arrests being made daily. It is quite normal for drugs to be smuggled in the states in routine auto crossings. Just yesterday a Mexican woman was arrested for trying to smuggle 125 kilos of cocaine hidden in her car.

The volume of drugs intercepted is truly amazing. A month or so ago the Coast Guard grabbed 8 tons of cocaine in one semi-submersible submarine.

Within the last 2 years, 4 major tunnels were discovered, I'm not talking about small tunnels where people must crawl. I'm talking about MAJOR tunnels designed by Mexican engineers complete with narrow gauge "railroads" powered by motor cycles. Those tunnels are used to smuggle drugs as well as people. It is said that it costs $1,500/person to be smuggled into the U.S.

US. National Guard on the border ? Yes ! It's about time
 

Traveler said:
It was announced today that U.S. National Guard troops would be sent to the U.S./Mexican border in a back-up role supporting the Border agents. The border agents have only 16,000 personnel in place, and that is woefully short of what is needed.

Last month alone, the border agents arrested 37,393 illegal aliens as they crossed the border. That is an astronomical number of people. Most of them have been apprehended multiple times. Some, not all of them, are drug smugglers and other criminal types.

Last week, when I spoke with an agent at the border, he told me they find many different nationalities illegally crossing the border, Primarily, he said, they are Mexicans but also Russians, Africans, Chinese, and other Central American nations and South Americans as well.

I live within sight of the border and I see arrests being made daily. It is quite normal for drugs to be smuggled in the states in routine auto crossings. Just yesterday a Mexican woman was arrested for trying to smuggle 125 kilos of cocaine hidden in her car.

The volume of drugs intercepted is truly amazing. A month or so ago the Coast Guard grabbed 8 tons of cocaine in one semi-submersible submarine.

Within the last 2 years, 4 major tunnels were discovered, I'm not talking about small tunnels where people must crawl. I'm talking about MAJOR tunnels designed by Mexican engineers complete with narrow gauge "railroads" powered by motor cycles. Those tunnels are used to smuggle drugs as well as people. It is said that it costs $1,500/person to be smuggled into the U.S.

US. National Guard on the border ? Yes ! It's about time
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Which is why I do not think the Wall will work.
 
Butterfly said:
Which is why I do not think the Wall will work.
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Nothing works 100% of the time. Even state prisons with a high degree of security have escapes. BUT, the wall WILL work to the extent that it will dramatically reduce the number of illegal aliens.

There are other options in addition to the wall. You may be unaware that the Mexican Federal government actively participates in assisting those who are try to enter the U.S, illegally. One of the next steps might be to limit the number of LEGAL crossings.

Example: The San Ysidro/ Tijuana land border crossing is the busiest border crossing in the world, 8 million crossings/year. If the Mexican government does not dramatically slow down the illegals, the next step COULD be to cut the number of LEGAL crossings to 50% of the current number.

If that does not have a dramatic impact, then another option could be to stop all money wire transfers into Mexico. Migrants working in the U.S send billions and billions of dollars back home to their Mexican families.

We have practically an unlimited number of option available to us. We are, after all, The United States Of America.
 

Traveler said:
Nothing works 100% of the time. Even state prisons with a high degree of security have escapes. BUT, the wall WILL work to the extent that it will dramatically reduce the number of illegal aliens.

There are other options in addition to the wall. You may be unaware that the Mexican Federal government actively participates in assisting those who are try to enter the U.S, illegally. One of the next steps might be to limit the number of LEGAL crossings.

Example: The San Ysidro/ Tijuana land border crossing is the busiest border crossing in the world, 8 million crossings/year. If the Mexican government does not dramatically slow down the illegals, the next step COULD be to cut the number of LEGAL crossings to 50% of the current number.

If that does not have a dramatic impact, then another option could be to stop all money wire transfers into Mexico. Migrants working in the U.S send billions and billions of dollars back home to their Mexican families.

We have practically an unlimited number of option available to us. We are, after all, The United States Of America.
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Some of my relatives once sported yellow stars. They couldn’t send money out of the country either. The gov’t also had practically unlimited options. Slippery slope.
 
Shalimar said:
Some of my relatives once sported yellow stars. They couldn’t send money out of the country either. The gov’t also had practically unlimited options. Slippery slope.
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No slippery slope about it. Entirely different scenario. Your relatives were in mortal danger. The illegal aliens trying to cross into the United States are in no danger from their own government. If they stay put in their own country then the U.S. has no issue with them
There can be no possible correlation between Nazi Germany and the United States. The United States is merely trying to stem the tidal wave of illegals but does not wish them any harm. Nazi Germany was actively murdering the German Jews and destroying their peaceful business' and burning the synagogues. I'm sure you remember "Kristallnacht".

Lastly, and perhaps the biggest difference is that the Jews of Nazi Germany were peaceful, law abiding, citizens of Germany. The illegal aliens trying enter America are NOT Americans citizens . Entirely different scenario.
 
Traveler said:

No slippery slope about it. Entirely different scenario. Your relatives were in mortal danger. The illegal aliens trying to cross into the United States are in no danger from their own government. If they stay put in their own country then the U.S. has no issue with them
There can be no possible correlation between Nazi Germany and the United States. The United States is merely trying to stem the tidal wave of illegals but does not wish them any harm. Nazi Germany was actively murdering the German Jews and destroying their peaceful business' and burning the synagogues. I'm sure you remember "Kristallnacht".

Lastly, and perhaps the biggest difference is that the Jews of Nazi Germany were peaceful, law abiding, citizens of Germany. The illegal aliens trying enter America are NOT Americans citizens . Entirely different scenario.
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Hmm. I think the the thousands of unaccompanied preteen children escaping gang infested city hellholes of Central and South America might dispute your assertion regarding their safety in the hands of corrupt home govts. If we do not protect children, we have forfeited all pretence of humanity, never mind supposedly being Christian nations.
 
Shalimar said:
Hmm. I think the the thousands of unaccompanied preteen children escaping gang infested city hellholes of Central and South America might dispute your assertion regarding their safety in the hands of corrupt home govts. If we do not protect children, we have forfeited all pretence of humanity, never mind supposedly being Christian nations.
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We can not be the police for the entire globe. If the people of Central America can not elect competent governments there is zero we can do about that. Maybe Canada wants to take on some of the burden. Perhaps move all 20,000,000 them to Vancouver ? Actually that would be a win-win situation. The kids could get free food, housing, medical care, and schooling; and Canada could get to feel superior.

Of course, when the kids grow into teenage gangsters, like the ultra-violent M-13 gangs, they would be at your throats. Just like they are in America.

Honestly, I don't think Canadians have any idea of what we are facing. It's real easy to judge America. Mexico does not share a common border with Canada. And Canadians can thank their lucky stars for that.

Just don't demand that America do any more. We have enough problems .
 
Traveler said:
We can not be the police for the entire globe. If the people of Central America can not elect competent governments there is zero we can do about that. Maybe Canada wants to take on some of the burden. Perhaps move all 20,000,000 them to Vancouver ? Actually that would be a win-win situation. The kids could get free food, housing, medical care, and schooling; and Canada could get to feel superior.

Of course, when the kids grow into teenage gangsters, like the ultra-violent M-13 gangs, they would be at your throats. Just like they are in America.

Honestly, I don't think Canadians have any idea of what we are facing. It's real easy to judge America. Mexico does not share a common border with Canada. And Canadians can thank their lucky stars for that.

Just don't demand that America do any more. We have enough problems .
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I am not demanding anything, merely offering an alternate point of view. That is what debate is about. As for possible feelings of superiority being ascribed to those of us living under the Maple Leaf, cheap shot. My goodness, can’t we disagree without taking things personally? Currently, I work with child refugees, most of whom suffer from PTSD. I have lost three of

them to suicide in less than a year, I assure you superior is the last thing I feel. As for being ignorant of what America faces, no Canuck with my background who has worked in the trenches for decades has an ounce of naievete. However, your narrative is not embraced by all, any more than mine. Such is the blessing of freedom. The right to freely disagree, whether in a republic, or constitutional monarchy. Pax.
 
I believe we need to act like a sovereign country and protect our borders. And how best to do that, as well as when to do what, is a dynamic situation. Right now we need to stop the flood of illegal crossings. Once we get a handle on that, or perhaps at the same time, we can re-visit many of the well intention immigration policies that are being gamed/misused in ways that are against the best interest of the USA and it's citizens.
 
According to Politifact, the Pew Research Center's statistics from 2007 to 2016 are reliable figures to analyze the trend. In 2007, there were 809,000 illegal Mexican immigrants apprehended on the Southern border. In 2016, that figure was reduced to 191,000. The Pew Research Center pointed out that more Mexican illegal immigrants have LEFT the US since 2007 than have entered the US due to the recession. That figure is at least one million.

It is impossible to know for certain how many illegal immigrants there are in the US. But one growing problem is the rise in illegal immigrants coming from many other countries besides Mexico. They are not all crawling across the Southern border.
 
There is a very simple answer. The Chamber of Commerce blocks it at every opportunity. Prosecute the employers of undocumented workers. Levy massive crippling fines! Limiting the amount of money sent home would also be very helpful.

We are a bipolar nation!
 
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

Mexican immigration into the US is at the lowest point that it's been in many years. More Mexicans are leaving the US than coming here. This is partly due to the improved Mexican economy, the US recession, and law enforcement. The wall has never been as NOT needed as it is now. It's a sham, dreamed up to entice voters.

Do we really have no other uses for that money?
 
TonyK said:
According to Politifact, the Pew Research Center's statistics from 2007 to 2016 are reliable figures to analyze the trend. In 2007, there were 809,000 illegal Mexican immigrants apprehended on the Southern border. In 2016, that figure was reduced to 191,000. The Pew Research Center pointed out that more Mexican illegal immigrants have LEFT the US since 2007 than have entered the US due to the recession. That figure is at least one million.

It is impossible to know for certain how many illegal immigrants there are in the US. But one growing problem is the rise in illegal immigrants coming from many other countries besides Mexico. They are not all crawling across the Southern border.
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No way to know for sure, it appears they relied on a Mexican 2014 survey. The southern border is by far the point of least resistance for crossings. Easy for anyone with money. There are plenty of dangerous people coming here legally.
 
Robusta said:
There is a very simple answer. The Chamber of Commerce blocks it at every opportunity. Prosecute the employers of undocumented workers. Levy massive crippling fines! Limiting the amount of money sent home would also be very helpful.

We are a bipolar nation!
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They love cheap labor...
 
Shalimar said:
Some of my relatives once sported yellow stars. They couldn’t send money out of the country either. The gov’t also had practically unlimited options. Slippery slope.
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I assume you're talking about nazi Germany. If so, then I'd have to say that Jewish folk in Israel have learned that a wall can work. Just saying.
 

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I feel it is important to point out one inescapable fact. The people of the Central American nations have created their own problems. Let them solve those problems. If they can't solve those problems, or just don't care enough to solve them, then let them stew in their own juices.

I, of course, realize that their are many who, for some truly bizarre reasons, want open borders and would, if given a chance, tear down the existing fences and walls.

There are others who care about America, (mostly retirees) and they assist the American border agents, by setting up border watch points along the vast stretchers of the border where there are no walls or fences what-so-ever. Those groups are equipped with radios to call in the border agents as needed. This can be a dangerous activity, as violent drug runners can pop up. More power to the brave, patriotic Americans who care about our country.
 
I feel it is important to point out one inescapable fact. The people of the Central American nations have created their own problems. Let them solve those problems. If they can't solve those problems, or just don't care enough to solve them, then let them stew in their own juices.
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Here's another unescapable fact, which has been mentioned several times already in this thread. Read my lips, Traveler: The wall is not needed. Mexican immigration to the US has gone way down. More Mexicans are going in the other direction. So, why spend billions of our tax dollars on a totally unnecessary wall?
 
Nothing implies there won't be another surge of illegal immigration in the future. If California offers health care and other services free to illegals why would they not cross the border?

In all seriousness, what is the tipping point? I think the 11 million (or more) already here are more than enough for a while.
 
Sunny said:
Here's another unescapable fact, which has been mentioned several times already in this thread. Read my lips, Traveler: The wall is not needed. Mexican immigration to the US has gone way down. More Mexicans are going in the other direction. So, why spend billions of our tax dollars on a totally unnecessary wall?
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The immigration rate has gone down because of more stringent policies and because illegals are realizing that there is finally some action being taken to stem the flow. If the wall is abandoned, the rates will increase again as they will see it as the US "backing down". The government wastes money all day, every day on things that are pointless. I don't believe the wall is pointless.
 
Why not use the same immigration laws Canada or Mexico has? Obviously the laws in place in America aren't working. Netflix has an excellent series on how Canada's border entry works. One episode showed a man wih a huge amount of prescriptions he uses being stopped. The concern was he would set up residency to use the Canadian health care system to supply his needs. He was denied entry !!


I can't understand why catch and return immediately is not in place now. The way it is now is beyond rediculous.


A wall is not a perfect solution but one that can slow the massive numbers heading to America for benefits. Or am I wrong in believing the stats showing use of social assistance in it's many forms?


Fine employers, catch & return immediately, beef up the borders with national guard or military, deport the criminal illegals, stop funding for sanctuary cities & or states. All doable to get back to processing application for those that want to enter America legally.
 
JB in SC said:
Nothing implies there won't be another surge of illegal immigration in the future. If California offers health care and other services free to illegals why would they not cross the border?

In all seriousness, what is the tipping point? I think the 11 million (or more) already here are more than enough for a while.
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Agree. And furthermore, the "illegal" ones still need to be deported. I have no problem with LEGAL immigration, work visas, etc. It's ILLEGALS that make my blood boil.
 
Traveler said:
I feel it is important to point out one inescapable fact. The people of the Central American nations have created their own problems. Let them solve those problems. If they can't solve those problems, or just don't care enough to solve them, then let them stew in their own juices.

I, of course, realize that their are many who, for some truly bizarre reasons, want open borders and would, if given a chance, tear down the existing fences and walls.

There are others who care about America, (mostly retirees) and they assist the American border agents, by setting up border watch points along the vast stretchers of the border where there are no walls or fences what-so-ever. Those groups are equipped with radios to call in the border agents as needed. This can be a dangerous activity, as violent drug runners can pop up. More power to the brave, patriotic Americans who care about our country.
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Yes, and where is all the foreign aid $$$ that we are sending to those very countries going??? We need to cut off that flow and use the money to build the wall.
 

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