Our spiritual side, or our "religion", what do we believe

It seems like that telling people (kids especially) that whatever went wrong, it was "God's will" is one of the things that drives people away from churches. Most things that happen are usually created by our own actions, or lack thereof. The rest are probably accidental. But blamingGod for everything that goes wrong, is not the answer.

Hell and brimstone preachers are another thing that was brought up by someone, and I certainly think that some hotheaded (and longwinded) preacher stomping back and forth across the platform, frothing at the mouth, and hollering that people are going to burn in hell; is just NOT something that children need to be exposed to.
As a young child, I had a problem with my eyes, and at that time, they did not operate on young children to correct double vision. Our neighbor lady took me to church with her so that the evangelist that was preaching a Revival there could pray for me, and I would get my eyes healed.
The longer I watched that man yell and scream at all of us about how sinful we all were, the more i decided that he was not going to come anywhere near me ! After the service, when they started calling people up to be prayed for, I ran outside and hid, and didn't come out until my mother came down to the church to bring us all home.
It certainly didn't bring me "closer to God" in any way, and it is no wonder to me that so many people want nothing to do with religion in any form.

Still, there is that unanswered question of "where did it all come from"??
 
I agree HFL. I haven't seen any of those pacing and screaming preachers except on the TV for two minutes, as I watch in disbelief, wearing their expensive suits and jewelry. I feel sorry for the folks in the audience who seem mesmerized...but if it gives them some comfort, then good for them. Sad world where those who preach the bible, God, and good actions, many times turn out to be cheaters and thieves themselves.
 

First a few comments - faith and belief are two different things.

This is most clearly illustrated in the Indiana Jones movie Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.
Dr Jones Snr believes but his son does not. However, later in the film Indy is put to a test of faith. In order to save his father who has been shot by the villains he must put his faith in his father's grail diary in order to pass three potentially lethal tests and discover the Grail. Indy doesn't really believe in the miraculous power of the Grail but has no other course of action open to him but to seek it out if he wants to save his father.

The first two tests are tricky but rather straightforward, and by following the diary and using his wits, he is able to arrive safely at the third test. The third test is a leap of faith. He must step out onto an invisible bridge across a deep chasm to arrive at the resting place of the Grail. Indy's faith in the diary isn't total by any means. He reaches down, picks up a handful of gravel and throws it out in front of him. The gravel shows him that the invisible bridge does indeed exist, at least on his side of the chasm, but does it extend all the way across? Who knows?

Indy takes the leap of faith and starts on a journey that is uncertain, with his eyes on the destination and the prize at the end of it. This is a metaphor of the nature of all kinds of faith, whether it is religious faith or faith in a particular political manifesto or in a person.

Looking at it another way, belief and unbelief are of the mind but faith is of the heart. That is why we can have faith in a higher power even though we are rational people who don't really believe in one most of the time.

Sometimes, like Indiana Jones Jnr, our unbelief is shaken by certain experiences that raise questions that are basically unanswerable. Sometimes it is the other way round; our faith is shaken when we discover that our beliefs don't measure up to reality.

The question asked by the OP was personal in nature, and without writing a short book I'll try to outline my faith journey.

As a child, like so many in this country, I was sent to Sunday School by parents who never actually attended church except for the usual rites of passage. The nearest church was in the next street and was a Baptist church. I was christened as a baby in a Methodist church, another very common ritual for that time.

Australian Baptist churches are not very much like American ones. We heard a bible story every week: stories about Jesus and the disciples and the usual Old Testament stories about Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Daniel, David, Ruth, Esther etc. We also learned some bible verses off by heart: "For God so loved the World.... ", "Come to me all ye who are heavy laden..." and so on.

Looking back there was nothing malignant in the teachings but the emphasis in those days was on giving your heart to God through Jesus in order to be saved from sin. That was a given in every church at that time. Not so in the church I attend today. It is never mentioned unless it happens to be the lectionary reading.

In my teens I became besotted by science. This is where I placed my faith and at the same time, as I developed critical thinking skills I began to question the literal truth of the Bible stories I had learned. My thinking was still rather black and white. Something was either true or it was not. And if part of it was untrue, then all of it was and the whole lot must be discarded. I had not yet learned enough about different styles of language such as allegory and metaphor to consider that different stories need to be interpreted using different techniques to discover what important truths may be contained within.

So I became a vocal atheist, telling anyone who would listen that God does not exist in reality but something made up by humans who are afraid of death. Sort of, "You can't handle the truth, but I can. That's why I'm right and you're deluded".

Now I'm going to draw a veil over some very personal experiences, none of which had anything to do with any church or any preacher, that turned me around by 180 degrees at the age of 33. Sufficient to say, my unbelief was shaken by an overwhelming awareness that "God is" and that God has the power to call us to Him. (I'm using the traditional masculine even though the God I'm talking about has no gender and no body). After some hesitation to get over the shock I answered the call and my life changed from within. I am still the same person, only more so. I'm free from old baggage and free from outside pressures and tyrannical influences. I would not reverse this change for anything.

So what do I believe now? I certainly don't believe that the Bible is the "inerrant, infallible word of God" because that is plainly nonsense, knowing what we know in this day and age. In my Sunday School classes we pick stories apart and question whether certain ones are mythological or added to over time to make the story more captivating. We always look for the important teaching at the core of each story. When a reading takes place in church, instead of saying "This is the Word of the Lord" we say "We remember these stories of our faith". Times have changed, and so has biblical scholarship.

I believe that the most important story in the Bible is the parable of the Good Samaritan. This story is timeless and universal. A little child can learn this story, understand it and even put the message into practice. However, if we take this story seriously as people of faith then we will spend the rest of our lives trying to live it out, and we will discover that "our neighbour" is not narrowly defined. Those two words encompass anyone we know needs our help. Anyone in the whole world. There are no boundaries to love as preached by Jesus of Nazareth. It's a very big ask and not everyone is prepared to go that far.
 
Warrigal said:
First a few comments - faith and belief are two different things.

This is most clearly illustrated in the Indiana Jones movie Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.
Dr Jones Snr believes but his son does not. However, later in the film Indy is put to a test of faith. In order to save his father who has been shot by the villains he must put his faith in his father's grail diary in order to pass three potentially lethal tests and discover the Grail. Indy doesn't really believe in the miraculous power of the Grail but has no other course of action open to him but to seek it out if he wants to save his father.

The first two tests are tricky but rather straightforward, and by following the diary and using his wits, he is able to arrive safely at the third test. The third test is a leap of faith. He must step out onto an invisible bridge across a deep chasm to arrive at the resting place of the Grail. Indy's faith in the diary isn't total by any means. He reaches down, picks up a handful of gravel and throws it out in front of him. The gravel shows him that the invisible bridge does indeed exist, at least on his side of the chasm, but does it extend all the way across? Who knows?

Indy takes the leap of faith and starts on a journey that is uncertain, with his eyes on the destination and the prize at the end of it. This is a metaphor of the nature of all kinds of faith, whether it is religious faith or faith in a particular political manifesto or in a person.

Looking at it another way, belief and unbelief are of the mind but faith is of the heart. That is why we can have faith in a higher power even though we are rational people who don't really believe in one most of the time.

Sometimes, like Indiana Jones Jnr, our unbelief is shaken by certain experiences that raise questions that are basically unanswerable. Sometimes it is the other way round; our faith is shaken when we discover that our beliefs don't measure up to reality.

The question asked by the OP was personal in nature, and without writing a short book I'll try to outline my faith journey.

As a child, like so many in this country, I was sent to Sunday School by parents who never actually attended church except for the usual rites of passage. The nearest church was in the next street and was a Baptist church. I was christened as a baby in a Methodist church, another very common ritual for that time.

Australian Baptist churches are not very much like American ones. We heard a bible story every week: stories about Jesus and the disciples and the usual Old Testament stories about Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Daniel, David, Ruth, Esther etc. We also learned some bible verses off by heart: "For God so loved the World.... ", "Come to me all ye who are heavy laden..." and so on.

Looking back there was nothing malignant in the teachings but the emphasis in those days was on giving your heart to God through Jesus in order to be saved from sin. That was a given in every church at that time. Not so in the church I attend today. It is never mentioned unless it happens to be the lectionary reading.

In my teens I became besotted by science. This is where I placed my faith and at the same time, as I developed critical thinking skills I began to question the literal truth of the Bible stories I had learned. My thinking was still rather black and white. Something was either true or it was not. And if part of it was untrue, then all of it was and the whole lot must be discarded. I had not yet learned enough about different styles of language such as allegory and metaphor to consider that different stories need to be interpreted using different techniques to discover what important truths may be contained within.

So I became a vocal atheist, telling anyone who would listen that God does not exist in reality but something made up by humans who are afraid of death. Sort of, "You can't handle the truth, but I can. That's why I'm right and you're deluded".

Now I'm going to draw a veil over some very personal experiences, none of which had anything to do with any church or any preacher, that turned me around by 180 degrees at the age of 33. Sufficient to say, my unbelief was shaken by an overwhelming awareness that "God is" and that God has the power to call us to Him. (I'm using the traditional masculine even though the God I'm talking about has no gender and no body). After some hesitation to get over the shock I answered the call and my life changed from within. I am still the same person, only more so. I'm free from old baggage and free from outside pressures and tyrannical influences. I would not reverse this change for anything.

So what do I believe now? I certainly don't believe that the Bible is the "inerrant, infallible word of God" because that is plainly nonsense, knowing what we know in this day and age. In my Sunday School classes we pick stories apart and question whether certain ones are mythological or added to over time to make the story more captivating. We always look for the important teaching at the core of each story. When a reading takes place in church, instead of saying "This is the Word of the Lord" we say "We remember these stories of our faith". Times have changed, and so has biblical scholarship.

I believe that the most important story in the Bible is the parable of the Good Samaritan. This story is timeless and universal. A little child can learn this story, understand it and even put the message into practice. However, if we take this story seriously as people of faith then we will spend the rest of our lives trying to live it out, and we will discover that "our neighbour" is not narrowly defined. Those two words encompass anyone we know needs our help. Anyone in the whole world. There are no boundaries to love as preached by Jesus of Nazareth. It's a very big ask and not everyone is prepared to go that far.
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This really was a good read, I thought it was interesting that my biggest faith & belief change came at 33 as well WG.

I pretty much stated where I am with it all now, in my OP, but I just wanted make this short comment to tell you that last sentence is the one thing I am most focused on today. It's because "I want to be alone" like one of Mae West's famous movie lines. I've grown away from socializing rather than closer to folks, and I can't very well love anyone if I am not around them. And there is where I am happiest, when I am loving my fellow man/woman. Some days I can go further in answering that call that I too read in the bible (but even before that I must have been taught to care for others, be unselfish), other days, it's all hogwash, and I'm going to stay in my woman-cave, and protect myself.

Denise
 
Quite a good discussion, nothing frivilous here. There were some good comments made on this thread. My own experience, to a great extent, parallyled some few here. If I were to choose a path to follow I have some good examples here from which to choose. The one that pulled at me the most, and the one with which I felt most kinship, was the first posting by SeaBreeze.

Congratulations to NWLady for starting this sinsitive thread and guiding it along until it caught hold.
 
Spirituality is something that is difficult to define. It's the kind of thing that you feel and understand on a deeper level. and also I really feel its a personal thing.. In earlier times, spirituality was closely connected to organized religion. Over time, the meaning of spirituality has changed. It has become less about religion and more about personal development, being connected to others and to something greater than yourself and finding peace, loving one another doing good to your neighbour..helping where ever you can and sometimes to go the extra mile..
Personal development involves growing and changing. As people grow and mature, they begin to develop a value system of their own. We tend to get our values from our parents. However as we mature, we may discover we have our own values. Some of those may be the same as our parents but others may change because the world has changed. I know in my case it has because my mother didn`t encourage us to go to church or anything it was something in me that I felt I had to search for and going through a death in my early years of my husband at 23 yrs of age so early in our marriage really changed my thinking.. I needed to have that peace more than any thing..
All major religious traditions carry basically the same message, that is love, compassion and forgiveness ... the important thing is they should be part of our daily lives, and to quote Shakespeare here he said this above all to thine own self be true.. meaning just be yourself..
 
Denise1952 said:
I've wanted to talk about this for awhile, but I was gun-shy, but I think it would be interesting to find out what others think here on SF.

I've shared a little here and there about my life, but I won't make a book out of this OP. Until the age of 33, I had no teachings, no church, my family was sort of the "wild bunch" and for my early years, I wasn't sure whether my name was Denise, or God Dammit Denise. But all that time I imagined, I thought about some sort of magical loving old fella that lived up-stairs (heaven, I had heard that term somewhere) that would protect me. I usually cried out for "mom" when I was hurting/sick, but when I got older, I remember crying out "oh God help me". I capitalize God because I can't bring myself to use a small g because to me that's an inanimate, man-made god. Something I just came to believe along the road of life.

About the man-made god, I am not telling anyone that may not be the right thing to do, so I hope all will feel comfy sharing.

Ok, I will just leave that here, I went through a lot of different changes after 33, started going to church, reading the bible, stopped cussing, trying to be a good gal (really silly if I was going to follow the bible because it says there is no good in us:

New International Version of the bible.
For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.

I picked religion because I know little about politics, or money, but I wanted to try a "meaty" subject. First I want to say, I personally have not problem with thread-hijacking, and humor, so please feel free. I can get a topic back on track, others are well capable too if they want to. Please feel welcome to discuss your opinions, thoughts, ideas, beliefs and experiences. I look forward to learning, and sharing more as well;)

Denise

Edited: I got a bit grandiose in my OP here so I edited out. I had originally said "all members are welcome" but of course they are because this is an open forum, and I don't own it. My apologies, denise
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The "man made God" results from two likely stories. From early man there we the moon, stars, sun, to wonder about. Oral traditions were passed down through generations until there was an interpretation of the oral tradition in writing. There were interpretations around the globe that were strangely close. Dr. Carl Jung first coined the term "collective unconscious". The entire human race was found to live through and relate to archetypes. Hero, King, Queen, etc. These constructions are not man made. They came to exist down through the centuries with man. Religion is also the 1at attempt at science.

Many scientific advances came through Catholicism for example. Then from ancient scripts like the Rig Veda, the oldest spiritual text and oral tradition came the Torah and Bible. 2nd source: Here is where man comes in. Man uses language to create reality. When social really is put on paper it may becomes an institution with many adherents. This is where the discussion begins and new religions spring up like magic.

I have more, but you will have to ask me. Do not want to bore you. Next there will be strange things about Genesis.
 
After being brought up in a Baptist home with the hellfire preacher teachings etc. and then finding my way to the Episcopal faith and Unity teachings, I have come to the conclusion that I am a spiritual being having a human experience. Everyone has to find their way and travel many ways to get there. I still go to the Episcopal church for communion and fellowship with others but enjoy my daily Unity devotionals with my coffee each morning along with my prayers and affirmations for loved ones, friends and the good for all I meet that day.
 
Terry, I was brought up in a home with all that hellfire stuff, too. I found my way to the Lutheran Church because of its emphasis on love and forgiveness. I believe that hellfire approach is very damaging, at least it was to me. I very nearly left Christianity altogether because of it
 
terry123 said:
After being brought up in a Baptist home with the hellfire preacher teachings etc. and then finding my way to the Episcopal faith and Unity teachings, I have come to the conclusion that I am a spiritual being having a human experience. Everyone has to find their way and travel many ways to get there. I still go to the Episcopal church for communion and fellowship with others but enjoy my daily Unity devotionals with my coffee each morning along with my prayers and affirmations for loved ones, friends and the good for all I meet that day.
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I have tried some churches. I was a Bahai for a while. Bahai's had a prayer book so we did not have to make up our prayers. My problems is I can't pray in a prayer book, or stand a prayer circle and pray aloud while everyone is also praying. I can't even think then. Catholics have their ritual prayer and communion. Jews have their Tree of Life. Me, I pray all the time even if I don't know it. Sometimes I just start thanking God for things. I will ask that my grace be given to someone else if they are in trouble, but that is always a God's will thing. When I had my sweat lodge we would sing Native American prayer songs. That was always beautiful. When I had my guitar and sang, I sometimes felt very close to God. Sometimes I ask for things and later God answers my prayer.

It was the day before Christmas Eve. Me and my girl friend were driving to work together in her SUV. She had filled all of her cup holders with things and I had not any place to put my coffee cup. I remember thinking to myself that I needed a solution to this problem. That morning I was thinking about a self sealing coffer cup I could just sit in the seat next to me.

On Christmas Eve at work we had our Christmas party with gift exchange. We all drew numbers for our presents. When I drew mine and opened the gift it was a pair of self sealing coffee cups. God answers my prays in many ways. I have found that asking for a solution to a problem and then giving it to God often solves the problem. I believe that God is with us all, all the time, knows everything we do, say, feel. The problem is we think we cannot see God's work. So we do not. I do not pray that often. I just talk to God whenever I want. I love God. My God does not trick me, test me, or punish me. God just loves me.
 
For me, I know how miraculous my continued survival is. That said, every breath is a prayer. Long ago, while I was fashioning sense out of chaos, I decided, for the most part, to leave theology to the theologians. I needed a way to "live." I found that answer in service to my clients, and the enduring belief that love is a verb. I believe in a community of souls, a Divine warmth, the probability of karma/reincarnation, but my options remain open. Hmm, perhaps kindness is my religion.
 
Shalimar said:
For me, I know how miraculous my continued survival is. That said, every breath is a prayer. Long ago, while I was fashioning sense out of chaos, I decided, for the most part, to leave theology to the theologians. I needed a way to "live." I found that answer in service to my clients, and the enduring belief that love is a verb. I believe in a community of souls, a Divine warmth, the probability of karma/reincarnation, but my options remain open.
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There is a poem by Robert Frost titled, "Trial By Existence". I no longer believe in miracles. I believe that what we think of as miracles are just every day occurrences. Once in a meeting of AA there was a man telling us a story about losing his grandchildren because his estranged daughter was taking them to California and had promised he would no longer be able to see them. He was weeping because he loved them and was very attentive to them. That is when I began to pray for him and I got the feeling that the others in the meeting were also praying. It was not more than a minute later that his grandchildren walked through the door of the meeting and ran to him. The trip had been called off and so had the vow. The man himself did not even recognize that God was at work there. This man never believed in God.

It was years later that this man was in a meeting. He stayed sober for 12 years but was thinking about a drink. He mentioned he still did not believe in God and that God had never done anything for him. When it came to me I recited the story of a man who was reunited with his grandchildren one day. He did not even remember that day. Then I said the part about having prayed for him, etc. I then reminded him of the day 12 years earlier. Suddenly, I saw a light go on in his eyes. He just said he had forgotten that. He did not drink and was still sober when I left that town.

We may turn God into the mystical super being. I believe God can be different to each of us and still be the one God. For me God is right here, right now and always will be.
 

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