Philosophy of "Lying"

I

imp

Senior Member
I was brought up by my stay at home Mom, raising also my little nephew, born when I was 5. She stressed honesty above all else. Could always tell if I was not being honest, somehow.

Years later, reading a book on "Effective Management", a whole chapter was dedicated to the situations where a Manager should lie to subordinates. I was sickened by the author's reasoning.

What do you think about lying? How were you brought up? imp
 

We were taught not to lie, but in retrospect, it was a case of "Do as I say, not as I do" with regard to my father.
 
My mum was like your mom. Honesty was and still is a core value in our family line.

The maxim "better to say nothing than to tell a lie" was also strongly held to, and not just in my family either. At school, when being questioned by a teacher about something, if he asked "Did you do this?" we would answer truthfully Yes or No. If the next question was "Do you know who did do it?" The answer was still a truthful Yes or No. Then if pressed to name the culprit, the answer was "I'd rather not say, Sir". This would inevitably lead to some sort of punishment but we held the respect of the teacher and the rest of the class.

Without honesty and truthfulness there can be no honour or self respect IMO. This is a particularly British value (but not solely so) and I remember finding it shocking that not every culture is as forthright and blunt.
 
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Josiah said:
Life is complicated and doesn't lend itself to simple hard and fast rules.
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How true! We can easily come up with numerous reasons where, given unusual circumstances, lying might be the preferred route. However, I have almost always countered such examples successfully by demanding honesty rather than dishonesty. imp
 
Gosh, you're a righteous lot!
So honest and everything!
Where's the fun in trying to unravel your spouse's web of lies?
Where's the fun in picking apart the sales pitch of an overly aggressive, lying, sales person?
See, what fun you're missing!!! :magnify:
 
Can't help it Susie. It's how I was brung up.

I cannot bring myself to add my signature to a lie. I once worked with a teacher whose daughter asked her to write a note to get out of a PE lesson. She told her mum that all the girls were doing it and all she needed was a note from her mother.

The mother wrote the following note:

Dear Miss ...

Please excuse my daughter from PE today because she doesn't want to do it.

Signed ...
​
Her daughter was not amused but she did learn a lesson about her mother's attitude to lies and deception.
 
I go with Josiah really, its complicated, and while I was brought up to be honest and truthful, I find at times I avoid the truth especially when it would simply hurt the other person and do no good. Its not always possible to say nothing.

Close relationships are a real testing ground for honesty, and where most of us tend to fail. The universe is not a black and white place I feel so I reside in the grey area of truth at times. :confused:
 
My truth can be your lie, and vice versa.

The world is not black and white, so how could we be? There are no absolutes.

There - I'm done with my words of wisdom for the day.

... or am I? :cool:
 
merlin said:
I go with Josiah really, its complicated, and while I was brought up to be honest and truthful, I find at times I avoid the truth especially when it would simply hurt the other person and do no good. Its not always possible to say nothing.

Close relationships are a real testing ground for honesty, and where most of us tend to fail. The universe is not a black and white place I feel so I reside in the grey area of truth at times. :confused:
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I agree in part. For example, it is not always possible for national leaders to be fully frank and honest, especially when national security is at stake or when lives are at risk. When the press pack continues to hound them demanding an answer to a question that should not be answered, it is acceptable for them to deflect the question with minimal subterfuge. It is not acceptable to me when they knowingly misrepresent facts for political advantage. For that I mark them down.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
I agree in part. For example, it is not always possible for national leaders to be fully frank and honest, especially when national security is at stake or when lives are at risk. When the press pack continues to hound them demanding an answer to a question that should not be answered, it is acceptable for them to deflect the question with minimal subterfuge. It is not acceptable to me when they knowingly misrepresent facts for political advantage. For that I mark them down.
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I think politics and world leadership is the area where truth is virtually non existent in my opinion, after all its all about power and control, where truth is usually if not always a weakness.
 
merlin said:
I go with Josiah really, its complicated, and while I was brought up to be honest and truthful, I find at times I avoid the truth especially when it would simply hurt the other person and do no good. Its not always possible to say nothing.

Close relationships are a real testing ground for honesty, and where most of us tend to fail. The universe is not a black and white place I feel so I reside in the grey area of truth at times. :confused:
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I agree with Merlin on this one.
 
"Honesty is the best policy." That way, you never have to remember how or what you said to someone else. OTOH, a little white lie now and then to protect someone's feelings, IMO, is OK. If someone, not a close friend, asked me if I had a good time at their party (and I didn't), I wouldn't tell them that I was bored out of my mind, or that I had a terrible time. What good would that accomplish? It's just as easy to say, "Thanks. I enjoyed seeing everyone and the food was very good." Sometimes, it's good to be gracious.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
My mum was like your mom. Honesty was and still is a core value in our family line.

The maxim "better to say nothing than to tell a lie" was also strongly held to, and not just in my family either. At school, when being questioned by a teacher about something, if he asked "Did you do this?" we would answer truthfully Yes or No. If the next question was "Do you know who did do it?" The answer was still a truthful Yes or No. Then if pressed to name the culprit, the answer was "I'd rather not say, Sir". This would inevitably lead to some sort of punishment but we held the respect of the teacher and the rest of the class.

Without honesty and truthfulness there can be no honour or self respect IMO. This is a particularly British value (but not solely so) and I remember finding it shocking that not every culture is as forthright and blunt.
Click to expand...
My question: What would any of you do if you were to uncover a whole set of harmful, dangerous lies (maybe by the media, politicians, power brokers, or others)?
Being very honest, would you blurt your discovery out to the whole world, or would you carefully consider possible consequences and keep quiet?
 
I find nothing wrong with a little white lie to spare someone's feelings.. I find people that are so brutally "honest" all the time to seem to get some sort of satisfaction out of bursting someone' bubble and making them feel embarrassed or upset. The "You know me.... you will ALWAYS get the truth" people seem to be almost gleeful out of their brutality. There is no harm in telling someone that their hair looks good... when it doesn't... or that their home décor is "lovely" when it looks like a Polish fleamarket... to spare their feelings. What the heck does it matter.. Brutally "honest" at all costs people are in reality brutally "cruel" people. On the other hand.. if someone would be helped by my honesty and I can save them from embarrassment or hurt.. I would gently find a way to tell them.. but honest for honesty's sake is not always the best way to treat people.
 
I am generally a very honest person, ...I'm not someone who can spin lies or be underhand about anything. Yes little white harmless lies like saying how wonderfully helpful someone has been when actually they weren't very good but I could see they tried but actually weren't great...etc

However am I the only one who feels absolutely betrayed if someone tells me an outright lie?...I actually feel as though I have been physically struck. It doesn't have to be HUGE, but to invent something that I may have said or done or to be told someone has said it.. to tell me just a whole invented story about anything at all , is like a physical pain in my heart ... perhaps I'm just far too sensitive!!
 
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Susie said:
My question: What would any of you do if you were to uncover a whole set of harmful, dangerous lies (maybe by the media, politicians, power brokers, or others)?
Being very honest, would you blurt your discovery out to the whole world, or would you carefully consider possible consequences and keep quiet?
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Consequences to whom? Myself or the people benefiting from the lies? Is the question asking would I (or anyone else) consider becoming a whistle blower?

If I considered it in the public interest to blow the whistle I think I might try to do it through official channels - police, other authority figures etc but I would seek legal advice before doing so. I would document what I found out and keep at least one copy in a secure place, just in case. I wouldn't rush to the media because I don't trust them one little bit.
 
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