Pledge of Allegiance - are you pro or con?

Sunny

Sunny

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A friend and I recently got into a discussion about the Pledge being recited in American schools every day. It's been a long time since I was in a school, so I don't know if it's still being used, but I do know that the Pledge of Allegiance is recited at the beginning of many events, club meetings, etc.

I have some friends who are adamantly opposed to saying it, and won't even stand up when it is recited. Some people will stand up, but I notice that they aren't saying anything. I think they consider it brain washing, and refuse to recite a pledge that makes them feel like programmed automatons. Some of them stopped saying it when the words "under God" were stuck in, I think during the Eisenhower years.

As I told the friend in this discussion, I can remember when, back in my schoolteaching days, we had to read 5 verses from the Bible, lead the class in the Lord's Prayer, and have all the kids face the flag and recite the Pledge. This was in public school in NJ. I don't know if it's still being done; it may vary from state to state. And I do know how I feel about the religion part of it (strangely, it never occurred to me to object back in those days), but I still recite the Pledge. To me, it's a reminder of what this country is supposed to stand for. But I don't like the idea of kids being forced to say it.

How do you feel about the Pledge of Allegiance? Are you pro or con? Or somewhere in the middle (no objection to it being said by anybody who wants to say it, but you respectfully decline?)

If you are not American, does your country have a similar pledge?
 

I don't get the opportunity to say it much in public, when I do, I am happy and proud to participate.

Often, when I can't sleep, I go over those things and songs we used to sing back in the day. It helps me stop thinking about bad things.
 

Every day in homeroom, we stood and recited the Pledge of Allegiance. I agree with @Alligatorob. I don't see the need to perpetuate it. We didn't have to recite Bible verses, and I don't think children then or now should have to do so. I don't see why children have been forced to do either.

As an adult, I have no problem reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.

Bella ✌️
 
Just to be accurate, the kids didn't have to recite Bible verses. The teacher had to read them. All the kids had to do was remain quiet. But they were supposed to say the Lord's Prayer. Not sure whether every kid actually did say it. If they folded their hands and put their heads down, who would notice what they were or were not saying? I suspect the whole religion part of it has long since disappeared, in NJ, anyway. Down in the Bible Belt, I'm not so sure.

Seems kind of amazing in this day and age, doesn't it? Even if some of the parents may have not been happy about it, they did not make trouble; I think that generation of parents were much more docile and intimidated by the system than people are now.

But the Pledge seems to still be alive and well.
 
terry123 said:
Don't see a thing wrong with saying it in schools to start the day. Just me and I am old and set in my ways.
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Me too. I have always felt a strong sense of patriotism. But I fear that we are losing our way as a nation, given the constant polarization. In the past, I think most citizens felt that moderate, pragmatic, middle-of-the-road governance was best, but alas not any more.
 
Knight said:
Daily pledge was what was done. Now that I rarely have the opportunity my thought about daily in school has changed.

I think somewhere around the 6th grade as a history lesson discussing the intent of the pledge would make more sense.
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A discussion about the "intent" of the pledge might upset some people.

The Pledge of Allegiance was written by Francis Bellamy, a Christian Socialist. 😲
Bellamy was a Christian socialist[1] who "championed 'the rights of working people and the equal distribution of economic resources, which he believed was inherent in the teachings of Jesus.'"[6] In 1891, Bellamy was "forced from his Boston pulpit for preaching against the evils of capitalism",[3] and eventually stopped attending church altogether after moving to Florida, reportedly because of the racism he witnessed there.[7] Francis's career as a preacher ended because of his tendency to describe Jesus as a socialist. In the 21st century, Bellamy is considered an early American democratic socialist.[8]​

Bellamy was a firm believer in the separation of church and state, which is why his pledge didn't contain any mention of God. "Under god" was added during the '50s as part of the Cold War fight against "godless communists. "

Although he was against racism, he was also a bit of a xenophobe.
On immigration and universal suffrage, Bellamy wrote in the editorial of The Illustrated American, Vol. XXII, No. 394, p. 258: "[a] democracy like ours cannot afford to throw itself open to the world where every man is a lawmaker, every dull-witted or fanatical immigrant admitted to our citizenship is a bane to the commonwealth.”[6] And further: "Where all classes of society merge insensibly into one another every alien immigrant of inferior race may bring corruption to the stock. There are races more or less akin to our own whom we may admit freely and get nothing but advantage by the infusion of their wholesome blood. But there are other races, which we cannot assimilate without lowering our racial standard, which should be as sacred to us as the sanctity of our homes."[10]​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bellamy
 
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My dad made a career being in the Army. Patriotism was very important to him and he tried to instill that into his children. My dad would tell us about the thousands of people that served in the service and who gave their life defending the flag. I remember in elementary school, we read a Bible passage, pledged our allegiance to the flag and then sang the song, “America” (My Country Tis of Thee.)

Dad told us one time that whenever we heard the National Anthem being played or sung, we should stand and place our right hand over our heart. I asked him what if I was home and had a baseball game on TV and they played the song. Do I stand for it then also? My dad said you can if you want, but in private, the choice is yours.
 
SeniorBen said:
A discussion about the "intent" of the pledge might upset some people.

The Pledge of Allegiance was written by Francis Bellamy, a Christian Socialist. 😲
Bellamy was a Christian socialist[1] who "championed 'the rights of working people and the equal distribution of economic resources, which he believed was inherent in the teachings of Jesus.'"[6] In 1891, Bellamy was "forced from his Boston pulpit for preaching against the evils of capitalism",[3] and eventually stopped attending church altogether after moving to Florida, reportedly because of the racism he witnessed there.[7] Francis's career as a preacher ended because of his tendency to describe Jesus as a socialist. In the 21st century, Bellamy is considered an early American democratic socialist.[8]​

Bellamy was a firm believer in the separation of church and state, which is why his pledge didn't contain any mention of God. "Under god" was added during the '50s as part of the Cold War fight against "godless communists. "

Although he was against racism, he was also a bit of a xenophobe.
On immigration and universal suffrage, Bellamy wrote in the editorial of The Illustrated American, Vol. XXII, No. 394, p. 258: "[a] democracy like ours cannot afford to throw itself open to the world where every man is a lawmaker, every dull-witted or fanatical immigrant admitted to our citizenship is a bane to the commonwealth.”[6] And further: "Where all classes of society merge insensibly into one another every alien immigrant of inferior race may bring corruption to the stock. There are races more or less akin to our own whom we may admit freely and get nothing but advantage by the infusion of their wholesome blood. But there are other races, which we cannot assimilate without lowering our racial standard, which should be as sacred to us as the sanctity of our homes."[10]​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bellamy
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Teaching all related to the pledge like your above input IMO would help not hinder a learning experience. Rote recitation is great for memorizing but does nothing to explain the why.

People get upset about a lot of things. Better they get upset than keep young minds from learning.
 
I vaguely remember reciting the pledge first thing in the morning in elementary school, don't think I've run into it lately. Probably people might now feel reluctant to pledge allegiance to a flag that one political party uses as part of a hate campaign against everyone not in their party. You'd think it would be used as a unifying symbol for all Americans.
 
jujube said:
In public grade school, we recited the pledge and the Lord's Prayer every morning. It wasn't optional.

On top of that, we trooped over to a nearby church once a week for Weekday Religious Education. That WAS optional, but nearly everyone went. Imagine that today. The screams would be heard to the moon.
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The screams should be heard to the moon.

What if the nearby church was of a religion that you feel violently opposed to? Is any religion all right? And what is Weekday Religious Education? Is it really education, or indoctrination?

If they call it optional but everybody goes but one or two kids, how is that supposed to make them feel?

There is certainly nothing wrong with comparative religion courses being taught in college. But little kids in grade school?
 
jujube said:
In public grade school, we recited the pledge and the Lord's Prayer every morning. It wasn't optional.

On top of that, we trooped over to a nearby church once a week for Weekday Religious Education. That WAS optional, but nearly everyone went. Imagine that today. The screams would be heard to the moon.
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Same here, but I went to a Southern Baptist high school. We also recited the Pledge of Allegiance and we had Chapel every Wednesday in which a guest pastor would preach Fire and Brimstone and tell us things like Rock Music and dancing were the Devil's works. After that experience, the screams SHOULD be heard to the moon.
 

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