Religion

SeaBreeze, I haven't read every word of that article because something clicked in my brain that said you can go mad trying to make sense of this sort of discussion. It's a bit like trying to understand then explain the Epicurean paradox about the problem of evil which I referred to earlier. It goes like this

If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to then He is not omnipotent.
If He is able, but not willing then He is malevolent.
If He is both able and willing then whence cometh evil.
If He is neither able nor willing then why call Him God?
Click to expand...

I was once asked to study this riddle/paradox as part of the only theology course I ever signed up for. None of the attempts to solve the conundrum made any sense to me at all, least of all the idea of original sin from Genesis. As I was wrestling with it, an idea popped into my head (revelation ?) that said "This is the wrong question. The more important question is 'Who is my neighbour' ? ". This is the opening question to the parable of the Good Samaritan, a story so simple that even a little child can understand it, but the moral message takes a lifetime for us to be able to apply it unconditionally to all of humanity.

To me, it is a similar waste of time to bother thinking about Heaven and Hell. This is the imagery of the three tiered universe which we know is nothing like the reality of the observed universe. It is a lot more profitable to accept that human beings are flawed creatures who have been given the keys to unlock our own moral advancement. We make mistakes, we sin, and instead of worrying about how God will punish us, it is better to learn from our transgressions so that we move forward and upward. One of the things we need to learn is to seek and accept forgiveness, to forgive ourselves for not being perfect, and from this experience, be prepared to extend forgiveness to others. There would be a lot less Hell on Earth if we could learn to forgive.

If I was on my death bed and wanted to leave behind a message for my children and their children, I wouldn't talk about Hell. I'd talk about the power of forgiveness.
 
Moses ..... The law is everything
Jesus ...... Love is everything
Marx ....... Money is everything
Freud ...... Sex is everything
Einstein ... Everything is relative

These are 5 Jews that changed the world .........
 

I don't think this fellow is necessarily Jewish but I do like the way he expresses this self evident truth

“A miraculous healing awaits this planet once we accept our new responsibility to collectively tend the Garden rather than fight over the turf.” ~Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D.
Click to expand...
 
Long-Lived Dictators

  • Yahya Abdul-Azziz Jemus Junkung Diliu Jammeh - Gambia - in power since 1994
  • Alexander Grigoryevich Lukashenko - Belarus - in power since 1994
  • Islam Abdug‘aniyevich Karimov - Uzbekistan - since 1990
  • Idriss Déby Itno - Chad - since 1990
  • Omar Hasan Ahmad al-Bashir - Sudan - since 1989
  • Paul Biya - Cameroon - since 1982
  • Robert Mugabe - Zimbabwe - since 1980
  • José Eduardo dos Santos - Angola - since 1979
  • Teodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo - Equatorial Guinea - since 1979

Together, just these nine dictators hold sway over 150 million people ...
 
Dame Warrigal said:
SeaBreeze, I haven't read every word of that article because something clicked in my brain that said you can go mad trying to make sense of this sort of discussion. It's a bit like trying to understand then explain the Epicurean paradox about the problem of evil which I referred to earlier. It goes like this



I was once asked to study this riddle/paradox as part of the only theology course I ever signed up for. None of the attempts to solve the conundrum made any sense to me at all, least of all the idea of original sin from Genesis. As I was wrestling with it, an idea popped into my head (revelation ?) that said "This is the wrong question. The more important question is 'Who is my neighbour' ? ". This is the opening question to the parable of the Good Samaritan, a story so simple that even a little child can understand it, but the moral message takes a lifetime for us to be able to apply it unconditionally to all of humanity.

To me, it is a similar waste of time to bother thinking about Heaven and Hell. This is the imagery of the three tiered universe which we know is nothing like the reality of the observed universe. It is a lot more profitable to accept that human beings are flawed creatures who have been given the keys to unlock our own moral advancement. We make mistakes, we sin, and instead of worrying about how God will punish us, it is better to learn from our transgressions so that we move forward and upward. One of the things we need to learn is to seek and accept forgiveness, to forgive ourselves for not being perfect, and from this experience, be prepared to extend forgiveness to others. There would be a lot less Hell on Earth if we could learn to forgive.

If I was on my death bed and wanted to leave behind a message for my children and their children, I wouldn't talk about Hell. I'd talk about the power of forgiveness.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for your posts. I have trouble putting my thoughts into words and you seem like a extremely educated woman who can do just that. I, too, am a Christian and will not apologize or stoop to being called an "idiot".
 
Wow! Interesting perspectives!

Me thinks the facts rarely reflect the honest-to-God truth. You have to dig down a little deeper to find that.

Just for the record, i believe there is a kind, benevolent God that has our best interest at heart, unlike the way most folks who suspect He might exist, tend to think of Him.

I wouldn't try to answer naysayers questions. Some things have to be believed, in order to be experienced.
 
SifuPhil said:
Although I'm not normally a fan of organized religion I would have to say that the blame for MOST domestic and international problems comes not from religion but from the greed and avarice and materialism of humans.

Money and power - those are the catalysts.

Religion is just the mask, the disguise that is used to justify their actions.
Click to expand...

Religion has ALWAYS been about money and power. That's what spurred the development of organized religion. Some really smart folks figured out that if you could scare the crap out of people and keep them toeing the mark in hopes of some mystical magical reward... they would be happy to fill your coffers and keep you in luxury.
 
I agree with Phil. "religious" wars don't have much to do with religion -- its' more about power, money, greed, and wanting what the other guy has, all cloaked in the excuse of religion.

I am a Lutheran. I don't have a problem with anybody else's religion, as long as they don't try to ram it down my throat or go around burning people alive to prove their piety, or power, or whatever.
 
Butterfly said:
I agree with Phil. "religious" wars don't have much to do with religion -- its' more about power, money, greed, and wanting what the other guy has, all cloaked in the excuse of religion.

I am a Lutheran. I don't have a problem with anybody else's religion, as long as they don't try to ram it down my throat or go around burning people alive to prove their piety, or power, or whatever.
Click to expand...

I was raised Lutheran....Missouri Synod. AKA... Catholic light
 
Misty said:
Not to be disrespectful, Lon, but isn't it possible you could be wrong, and those who believe and are Christians can be respectable people and not idiots? Do you have positive proof there is no God?
Click to expand...

Not meaning disrespect, but I find this argument funny whenever I hear it. How can anyone prove something does not exist? Can you prove faeries, trolls, leprachauns, little green men don't exist?
 
The absence of evidence does not disprove existence. Or more accurately ... the absence of perceived evidence does not disprove existence. A wise man can see more from the bottom of a well, than a fool can from a mountaintop.
 
birdman said:
The absence of evidence does not disprove existence. Or more accurately ... the absence of perceived evidence does not disprove existence. A wise man can see more from the bottom of a well, than a fool can from a mountaintop.
Click to expand...

Is it possible to PROVE there is a God?
 
Wife and I are "Believers" as well as have "Faith". I remember back in the mid 90's, I tried to relocate twice. Once was to Sheridan, Wyoming and the other was to Billings, MT.. Neither time worked, but each morning, before leaving my motel room to do more driving, I prayed to keep myself safe. Must have worked, I'm here today!

Now, what REALLY shocked/sort of scared both of us was watching the movie, Left Behind with Nicholas Cage. It was a movie, but wife and I will continue to be good Christians and "Believe" and keep the "Faith".
 
I wonder if religious people actually believe all the doctrine they are taught, or are they just going along with it because they were born into it and that is the way they have been trained and taught from early childhood and it is part of their upbringing and social group. It becomes part of their identity like coming from a certain cultural background.

Even though some may participate in study groups to discuss their beliefs, other than monks and clerics, most are not religious scholars, just laypeople who are too busy working and dealing with daily life and probably only think about it except for a few hours a week in church. If they talk about it it's mostly not based on personal experience, but parroting what they have been taught or memorized.

For many to believe in some kind of religion is preferable than not, which would be is too frightening. So they join a church from one of the many spiritual supermarkets, buy the product and pay the price (tithe) and feel safer.
 
Hmmn, you could say that, Cookie [and indeed you have done.]There is a lot of truth in it.We don't know what comes after death though [if anything] or why we are here, or what is out there and what created it, universes beyond universes.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top