Should there be broad-based religious teachings?

Shalimar said:
Many of my clients are Muslim, primarily from war torn countries. I am always treated with the utmost respect. These are some of the warmest, kindest people I have ever met. They greatly appreciate what this country has offered them, and do their best to give back to the community. Their children are polite, my teacher friends tell me they are a joy to
teach. It is inaccurate to say that all Muslims know how to do is to destroy. Islamophobia has no place on this forum.
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No one said, "all Muslims know how to do is to destroy" and my comments are based upon reality. Pure reality. Not islamophobic ignorance.

I have a statement of my own:
It is inaccurate to say that all Muslims treat the host nation and its population with the utmost respect and they are the warmest, kindest people who greatly appreciate what this/that/or the other country has offered them and that they do their best to give back to the community. Islamofilia has no place on this forum.
 

I have 2 sons that are married to two sisters who just happen to be Muslims....one sister will eat anything of a pig, the other sister will not but doesn't stop her daughter from eating what she likes.

The eldest daughter in law is a fully fledged teacher and teaches in a Church of England school in London.

I couldn't wish for 2 better daughters in law and they treat me like they would their own mother.
 

Bee said:
I have 2 sons that are married to two sisters who just happen to be Muslims....one sister will eat anything of a pig, the other sister will not but doesn't stop her daughter from eating what she likes.

The eldest daughter in law is a fully fledged teacher and teaches in a Church of England school in London.

I couldn't wish for 2 better daughters in law and they treat me like they would their own mother.
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It is difficult to see what part of those lovely daughters-in-law are Muslim. Just saying.
 
Verisure said:
It is difficult to see what part of those lovely daughters-in-law are Muslim. Just saying.
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Would you like me to ask them to reply to you and confirm they are Muslims :rolleyes:

Not all Muslims are killers the same as not all Catholic Priests are pediaphiles.........as for myself I am an athiest.
 
SetWave said:
There is no attempt to disparage all Muslims and I'm happy to know of your good treatment. Yet, the account I've offered is factual and disturbing. Yes, many people of all cultures can be warm and kind with some of them not so wonderful. I actually worked with a guy from the middle east who told us he would work with us but he could not be our friend. That is just wrong at the core.
As for my friend she says that many of the kids and parents are polite and helpful yet it only takes one or two bad apples to spoil the bunch.
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I am just happy that itā€™s not only the Catholics that have to deal with a bad rap on the forum. šŸ˜‚. IMO, religion has less to due with the behavior of people and their children, then the people themselves. A LOT of people are just self serving jerks.
 
Bee said:
Would you like me to ask them to reply to you and confirm they are Muslims :rolleyes:

Not all Muslims are killers the same as not all Catholic Priests are pediaphiles.........as for myself I am an athiest.
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You clearly do not understand me.

1). One of them eats pork. It is forbidden in Islam
2). The other one allows her children to eat it. Forbidden in Islam.
3). By your default omission, it would appear that neither one of your sons is Muslim. It is not allowed for Moslem women to marry a non-Molsem man. The reason being that children are automatically Moslem if born to a Moslem man, otherwise they are not. This is why it is not very uncommon for non-Moslem women to marry Moslem men but very rare for non-Moslem men to marry Moslem woman. The religion of the women is less important and generally Moslem women are compelled to have her man convert to Islam.
4). The parents of your daughters-in-law apparently allowed them to marry a non-Moslem. Not allowed in Islam. It is that very situation that has given rise to "Honour killings".

So, my earlier comment stands fast: "It is difficult to see what part of those lovely daughters-in-law are Muslim".
 
Verisure said:
There is nothing positive about that situation and it only takes 2 of them in any class to make teaching impossible. What really made my decision easy to make was that the good kids in that class couldn't learn anything because of all the noise and disturbances. The Muslims have no respect for Europe or our kindness. The only thing they know is to destroy ... and that's what they do. And you're right. I'm a man and it's difficult enough, but for a woman, it's much, much worse. I have a son who's in school and I moved twice just to keep as far away as possible from you-know-who so my boy can get an education.
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While I agree with many of your viewpoints on this thread, I canā€™t agree with this one.

Quote: the muslins have no respect for Europe or to our kindness. The only thing they know is to destroy.ā€™ End quote .

You have just stereotyped an entire group of people as violently destructive. Thatā€™s not only not fair, itā€™s completely wrong.

While you recognize Christian Extremists , you fail to recognize Islam Extremists. These are the people who take their religion to a level of abnormal perception and understanding who become violent and destructive. 9/11 bombing of aircrafts into the NY twin towers was an example of Islam extremists but they arenā€™t ALL like that.

If you can understand the Christian Extremists, then it doesnā€™t take much more widening of your perception to see Islam Extremists and refrain from painting all Muslims with the same brush stroke.
 
Keesha said:
While I agree with many of your viewpoints on this thread, I canā€™t agree with this one.

Quote: the muslins have no respect for Europe or to our kindness. The only thing they know is to destroy.ā€™ End quote .

You have just stereotyped an entire group of people as violently destructive. Thatā€™s not only not fair, itā€™s completely wrong.

While you recognize Christian Extremists , you fail to recognize Islam Extremists. These are the people who take their religion to a level of abnormal perception and understanding who become violent and destructive. 9/11 bombing of aircrafts into the NY twin towers was an example of Islam extremists but they arenā€™t ALL like that.

If you can understand the Christian Extremists, then it doesnā€™t take much more widening of your perception to see Islam Extremists and refrain from painting all Muslims with the same brush stroke.
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To make this reply as short as possible (and to avoid unnecessary verbal chicanery) I will be brief.
* I am speaking from experience in Sweden, on the continent, and from my travels that include maybe 20 Molsem countries in the Middle East, Africa, Asia, and Europe.
* If I said "Canadians are good hockey players" would you tell me I am wrong to stereotype them and point out that not all Canadians can play hockey? We all stereotype or should I call it "prejudice", which if acquired carefully and justly is a good thing. If I see a group of rough-looking men with knives loitering in an alleyway, clearing their throats and spitting would you begrudge me if I avoid them by walking on the other side of the street?
 
Verisure said:
To make this reply as short as possible (and to avoid unnecessary verbal chicanery) I will be brief.
* I am speaking from experience in Sweden, on the continent, and from my travels that include maybe 20 Molsem countries in the Middle East, Africa, Asia, and Europe.
* If I said "Canadians are good hockey players" would you tell me I am wrong to stereotype them and point out that not all Canadians can play hockey? We all stereotype or should I call it "prejudice", which if acquired carefully and justly is a good thing. If I see a group of rough-looking men with knives loitering in an alleyway, clearing their throats and spitting would you begrudge me if I avoid them by walking on the other side of the street?
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If you said canadian hockey players are destructive, Iā€™d say youā€™re wrong but I donā€™t really care enough to turn it into a huge disagreement.
 
Verisure said:
Smart lady.
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Not really. I respond without really thinking. I donā€™t know many Muslim men except our optometrist who is probably the most soft spoken man with the best bedside manner Iā€™ve ever met . Iā€™ve worked with a few in the past and all have been most respectful.

My husband used to work with many and has had no problems with them but neither of us have travelled to any of the places you speak of so perhaps they act different there. I donā€™t really know. Maybe itā€™s that I dislike generalizations or stereotypes in general , since they unfairly gauge a large clump of people as clones.

Anyway, .....
 
Verisure said:
You clearly do not understand me.

1). One of them eats pork. It is forbidden in Islam
2). The other one allows her children to eat it. Forbidden in Islam.
3). By your default omission, it would appear that neither one of your sons is Muslim. It is not allowed for Moslem women to marry a non-Molsem man. The reason being that children are automatically Moslem if born to a Moslem man, otherwise they are not. This is why it is not very uncommon for non-Moslem women to marry Moslem men but very rare for non-Moslem men to marry Moslem woman. The religion of the women is less important and generally Moslem women are compelled to have her man convert to Islam.
4). The parents of your daughters-in-law apparently allowed them to marry a non-Moslem. Not allowed in Islam. It is that very situation that has given rise to "Honour killings".

So, my earlier comment stands fast: "It is difficult to see what part of those lovely daughters-in-law are Muslim".
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You are wrong with that statement, my eldest daughter in law emigrated from France ( where the family lived) to be with my son and marry him and it came with the blessing of her eldest brother who told her to follow her heart and he was actually married to a French non Muslim woman....when my daughter in laws parents found out they would have nothing to do with her.....I don't think you know as much as you think you do.............I suggest you google The Berbers.
 
OneEyedDiva said:
Did your friend say why it was a nightmare?
@Verisure Why was it such a horrible experience for you?
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I was teaching English, German, and French and my idea of teaching was to help young people get a good education or at least help them as far along the way to their own goals. But, alas! There were three boys in my class, all of them from a similar part of the world and speaking the same language. They had no interest in learning anything and they would just speak in their language just as much as they pleased. I talk with other teachers about the problem and they said it was a common problem and that if you separate them in the classroom theyā€™ll just shout louder so the other ones can hear them. They spoke all the time during my lecture and during reading and writing times. One day they found a ringtone that was like the sound of an atomic bomb and they pushed that button (full volume) any time at all during the whole day and then laughed their fool heads off, thinking it was really funny. You see, in Sweden, you cannot touch the students. You cannot push them. You cannot make them leave the classroom because insurance is such that if anything happens outside of the class it is then your fault. You can only tell (ask) them to settle down but sometimes they tell you ā€œF you!ā€ and call you derogatory names like ā€œF-ing Swedish shit!ā€ There is nothing you can do. As I said I was a teacherā€™s assistant studying to become a teacher but after that year I gave it up and got a job as a literary translator instead.
 
The problem, @Verisure seems to lie with your school's No Discipline Policy. This must be addressed before you blame obnoxious KIDS for being obnoxious. Is it legal in Sweden to have parent - teacher conferences? Did you not go to your supervising teacher or administration? I have no idea of school policies in Sweden, could you enlighten me on how problem students are dealt with? Thanks.
 
Keesha said:
Not really. I respond without really thinking. I donā€™t know many Muslim men except our optometrist who is probably the most soft spoken man with the best bedside manner Iā€™ve ever met . Iā€™ve worked with a few in the past and all have been most respectful.

My husband used to work with many and has had no problems with them but neither of us have travelled to any of the places you speak of so perhaps they act different there. I donā€™t really know. Maybe itā€™s that I dislike generalizations or stereotypes in general , since they unfairly gauge a large clump of people as clones.

Anyway, .....
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I feel the same as you about stereotypes and most definitely about racism although I think prejudices are not only OK but good if they are not abused. Still, I may have expressed myself in a way that wasn't precise enough and might have given the wrong impression about my feelings on the subject. Try to understand that Sweden is in a bad way with regards to the migrants and we are frustrated over the government's disregard for what we endure in everyday life. My generation built this country and put us at number one on the World Democracy Index. We are now down to number three (or thereabouts) and falling fast and we are seeing our country and culture being ravaged and destroyed by those who have no appreciation for what they have been offered on a silver plate. Am I exagerrating? Decide for yourself.
 
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Bee said:
You are wrong with that statement, my eldest daughter in law emigrated from France ( where the family lived) to be with my son and marry him and it came with the blessing of her eldest brother who told her to follow her heart and he was actually married to a French non Muslim woman....when my daughter in laws parents found out they would have nothing to do with her.....I don't think you know as much as you think you do.............I suggest you google The Berbers.
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I have travelled extensively in North Africa and I know the Berbers. I like them. They are not Arabs.
 
When I lived in Europe, in this case, England in particular, I soon realized most of Europe would never be able to handle people of color and with different cultural ways. You guys were not set up for that.
 
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