So Much for "Police Protection"

No one is making him a scapegoat for anything.

His actions were akin to a trained firefighter not going into a fire in an attempt to save known occupants that are still inside. If he makes no attempt then all will surely perish where if he tries there is a chance he can save someone.

No one blames him for the fire but he sure as heck will be blamed for not attempting a rescue and possibly saving a life.

No one is blaming this officer for the actions of the shooter but he sure as heck is being blamed for his own inaction which very possibly resulted in more deaths.
 

In Scot Peterson's defense, he probably thought school duty meant he would occasionally harass kids for smoking on school grounds. I doubt he expected to be called upon for anything serious.

He was definitely the wrong man for the job, but it shows the lack of seriousness the police department gave to protecting the school.
 

Apparently, even CNN is reporting that there were actually several deputies that were outside of the school while people were being shot and killed inside of the school, and they all stood outside and waited for the police department to show up and go inside.
If this is so, then it does not seem like just one of the deputies should end up being the scapegoat for none of them going inside.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27523/breaking-cnn-reports-four-broward-county-deputies-ben-shapiro
 
James said:
The latest FBI studies show that approx 67% of active shooter incidents end before Police arrival. We are now in a position to armchair quarterback this one, albeit all of the facts are not public yet.

1) At the time of the incident their was already an armed and apparently trained officer on scene.

2) The shooter was actively slaughtering students and teachers. The officer didn't know if this was going to last seconds, minutes or hours.

3) He failed to enter, search for and engage the shooter. Even 5, or 10 seconds could've made the difference for someone's life.

Doing nothing is not an option in these situations.
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There was a time when we were told not to enter a building when there is an active shooter, but wait for back-up to arrive. That protocol has now changed. Once on the scene and we are the first to arrive, we need to get into the building ASAP. I carry my vest on the back seat and can have it on and locked in less than 10 seconds. There is a ballistic plate located on the center over the area of the heart. I will generally take my metal badge from my wallet and lay it over the plate as added protection. Pennsylvania State Police do not have a metal badge on their uniform, but we do carry an ID wallet with a metal badge. The wallet can be folded to lay over the center plate on the vest.
 
911 said:
There was a time when we were told not to enter a building when there is an active shooter, but wait for back-up to arrive. That protocol has now changed. Once on the scene and we are the first to arrive, we need to get into the building ASAP. I carry my vest on the back seat and can have it on and locked in less than 10 seconds. There is a ballistic plate located on the center over the area of the heart. I will generally take my metal badge from my wallet and lay it over the plate as added protection. Pennsylvania State Police do not have a metal badge on their uniform, but we do carry an ID wallet with a metal badge. The wallet can be folded to lay over the center plate on the vest.
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I don't know about charging into an active shooter situation by yourself (which was what many of his critics seem to think he should have done) when the active shooter clearly(?) has an automatic weapon and all you have is yourself (an older man, I assume) and a pistol. That said, it would seem that he had an obligation to at least try to move forward as far as he felt he could to assess the situation and see if he could find some non-suicidal way to try and end the carnage or bring to safety as many as he could.
 
dpwspringer said:
I don't know about charging into an active shooter situation by yourself (which was what many of his critics seem to think he should have done) when the active shooter clearly(?) has an automatic weapon and all you have is yourself (an older man, I assume) and a pistol. That said, it would seem that he had an obligation to at least try to move forward as far as he felt he could to assess the situation and see if he could find some non-suicidal way to try and end the carnage or bring to safety as many as he could.
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It was semi-auto, not auto.

And, an experienced (which you call "older") officer with a pistol vs. a punk teenager with a AR-15?

I'll take the odds on the experienced officer every time. The teen isn't going to be used to someone shooting back and will likely commit errors.
 
The way every LEO is trained in North America is the same for Acticve Shooters. My Dept. began this training after Columbine. The reality of it is, when you arrive on scene and you are the only one there, you go in with what you have and hunt the pos down. He or she is in the process of slaughtering humans and needs to be stopped or distracted from their killing spree. Engaging the suspect will have one of 3 results. You will eliminate the threat, you may be eliminated by the threat, or the threat may eliminate themselves when engaged.

That's the way it is, that's the way we are trained, that's what is expected. Seconds matter and waiting for backup does not enter the picture.. If it costs your life but it distracts the sob you will save lives and buy more time for other officers to arrive and put an end to it.

Who knows why Petersen or any other Deputy waited outside while these children and teachers were being slaughtered. With all of the training we get the protocol & the expectations are abundantly clear, you go in. Petersen and who ever else that didn't go in may very well be great people, great and respected deputies....up until now.
 
Warrigal said:
In Australia we don't have 'deputies'. We have either members of state police forces or the federal police. They are very well trained.
They begin as probationary constables and advance up the ranks to commissioner.

http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/recruitment
http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/recruitment/the_training/the_academy

I am confused about the role of a deputy, who they report to and what is the extent of their training.
Can someone please fill me in?
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I'm from Canada. In my Province, Ontario, we have 3 basic levels of Law Enforcement. We have Federal, the RCMP. In this Province they don't do Street Patrols or respond to calls. They look after National Threats, surveillance, Customs, Drug Enforcement, etc. In other Provinces in Canada they also look after policing in rural areas or within Municipalities that don't have there own Police Departments,

Next in Ontario you have the Ontario Provincial Police. This was my Department. We looked after patrolling major highways, waterways, rural areas as well Municipal areas that don't have their own Departments.

Next are the Municipal Departments. Municipalities that have their own Police.

We all receive the same training which is mandated by the Government of Ontario. The training is very good and we do a lot of cross training with each other.
 
Thanks James.

We differ in that municipalities do not have their own police personnel. We have just two levels - state which includes highway patrol and transport policing, and federal, including counter terrorism, customs and border protection.

I'm still wondering about the US situation where there are descriptions unfamiliar to me - trooper and deputy being just two.
 
Warrigal said:
I am confused about the role of a deputy, who they report to and what is the extent of their training.
Can someone please fill me in?
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Do you know the old TV show - The Andy Griffith Show?

Do you remember Deputy Barney Fife? He reported to the Sheriff, which is a local function here.

Unfortunately, he was the role model for many deputies in the States.

Here are the requirements in my state (PA) and my county -

REQUIRED KNOWLEDGE, SKILLS, AND ABILITIES INCLUDE, BUT NOT LIMITED TO:

• Ability to communicate effectively with co-workers and the public.
• Knowledge of English grammar, punctuation and spelling.
• Ability to prepare and submit reports and correspondence.
• Ability to understand and follow detailed oral and written instructions.
• Ability to transform information accurately from one source to another.
• Ability to exercise sound judgments during the performances of their duties.
• Ability to maintain firearms qualification as required by the Sheriff.
• Ability to perform within prescribed office procedures and practices and knowledge of operation relevant to equipment.
• Knowledge of Pennsylvania Criminal and Procedural Law.


MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS AND EXPERIENCE:
• High School Graduate or equivalent.
• Pa. Act-2 Deputy Certification or must obtain, within one year of hire date, and maintain Deputy Sheriff Act-2 certification as mandated by Commonwealth Law or obtain waiver.
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Act 2 Deputy Certification -

Basic training shall consist of instruction in the topics of Introduction to Criminal Justice, Unified Court System of Pennsylvania, Civil Law and Procedure, Crimes Code and Criminal Procedure, Other Legal Issues, Court Security, Prisoner Transport, First Aid/CPR, Crisis Intervention, Families in Crisis, Firearms, Defensive Tactics, Less than Lethal Weapons, Emergency Vehicle Operations, Communications, Ethics and Professional Development, Technology and Law Enforcement, Physical Conditioning, Cultural Diversity, State and Local Anti-Terrorism Training, Special Needs Groups, PA Motor Vehicle Code, Motor Vehicle Collision Investigation/Hazardous Material, Patrol Procedures and Operations and Principles of Criminal Investigations.


A deputy sheriff shall attain at least the minimum score established by the Board on written tests designed for each topic area and shall demonstrate proficiency in all practical skills in order to successfully complete training and be certified by the Board.
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Okay, so maybe a little more training than Barney had ... :rolleyes:
 
The US have a couple of more layers than we do. 911 on this Board is a retired Trooper so I'll defer that explanation to him or someone else that's familiar with it.

In this Province the number of smaller Municipal Departments are dwindling. They are opting to contracting out Service from my Department or larger departments that are close to them to save tax $$.
 
I wonder how Scot Peterson is sleeping these days,if he and his family are being harassed or threatened by people who hold him responsible for not entering the school. Sue
 
moviequeen1 said:
I wonder how Scot Peterson is sleeping these days,if he and his family are being harassed or threatened by people who hold him responsible for not entering the school. Sue
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If he is human, not very well. Apparently from what the media is printing, he and his family are under Police Protection. According to Police Union reps, he is of the belief that he performed his duties well.

Even his Union disagrees with that.
 
An AR15 can shoot through all of the police vests. hey do a lot of damage to human tissue. I don't agree with what he did but I can understand it. When you are short in the military and your platoon gets a dangerous assignment the shorts are given consideration when someone needs to stay behind. This cop was near retirement he may have had such thoughts. He is human under that uniform.
 
As we all are. No one wants to die but that is what is expected if that's what it takes. We swear an oath, we are given the training, we know the expectations and we know the possible outcomes including our own demise.

Those kids and teachers had no weapons, had no vests, he was their protection.

Its too bad he didn't realize he couldn't do what was expected of him before this and left.

Hopefully if there is any good in this it will give pause to others that wear a uniform to reflect on their own abilities and do the right thing if they come up short.
 
Some people give their lives without hesitation for a good and noble cause and never know the outcome.
Some people hesitate and then must live with the outcome.
Not many people know for sure which person you'll be until the situation arises.
Seems like if he was trained well enough for this situation his training would have kicked in without hesitation.
 
Warrigal said:
Thanks James.

We differ in that municipalities do not have their own police personnel. We have just two levels - state which includes highway patrol and transport policing, and federal, including counter terrorism, customs and border protection.

I'm still wondering about the US situation where there are descriptions unfamiliar to me - trooper and deputy being just two.
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Trooper in most states is a 'state trooper' or state police who basically have jurisdiction any where in that state. In many states they basically wind up patrolling highways or handle specific crimes unless asked in by a local jurisdiction. The sheriff and/or deputies are at the county level, they cover any town in that county. The municipal or city police officer cover one specific municipality, town or city. Since most states mandate training requirements and certification programs most law enforcement officers wind up with a state certification which gives them a certain degree of jurisdiction anywhere in that state.

Also just to be armed private security in most states require 40-60 hours of weapons training. Also many places have a policy if not mandate of year round training. I can't believe this deputy didn't have to go the shooting range at least once a year.
 
WhatInThe said:
... I can't believe this deputy didn't have to go the shooting range at least once a year.
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He may well have, but of course there's a difference between range shooting and having the sand to use your weapon in a real confrontation. In a real sceario time both speeds up and slows down, you have to deal with adrenaline dumps and mental and physical conflicts, and there is no plan to follow except for your training.
 
Warrigal said:
I'm still wondering about the US situation where there are descriptions unfamiliar to me - trooper and deputy being just two.
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Warri! each state has differences.
Since I am in New York I will explain our system.
We have village, municipal,and city police. They have full powers of arrest and must possess a "Municipal, Village Police" certificate. Equivalent to a 2 year degree.
Sheriff is an elected position. The position is mostly administrative but he is the head law enforcement officer for his county.
Most counties have four divisions Corrections, Patrol, Civil,and Investigative. Deputies are the sheriffs employees. They are fully trained law enforcement officers with full powers of arrest within their county
New York State Troopers are the state police force, with full police power through out the state. State Troopers are highly trained most with a bachelors degree. State Troopers graduate from Academy and start work at just under $100,000 per year.
Their are a few other smaller State Agencies, such as Fish and Game ,Park Police,etc that have different areas of focus but all derive their authority thru the auspice of the State Trooper.
 
SifuPhil said:
He may well have, but of course there's a difference between range shooting and having the sand to use your weapon in a real confrontation. In a real sceario time both speeds up and slows down, you have to deal with adrenaline dumps and mental and physical conflicts, and there is no plan to follow except for your training.
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When I say range I'm including some basic scenarios along with hitting the target. Most military and police do that. Most murdering shooters don't. The Dallas cop killer is the only one that I can recall actually practicing tactics along with shooting. This is exactly it's even more frustrating not seeing this deputy go in because believe or not I think he had a tactical advantage of training and/or repetition.

The deputy's weapon even though a pistol should've/would've been like a common tool at this point and shouldn't have to think about the weapon or aim. If it malfunctions he should instinctively know what to do ie clear a jam etc. Most murdering shooters don't practice or train doing that under pressure, they could do that a range nice and comfortable but can they do it from a kneeling or more awkward position or more importantly while taking fire. Again this a point of frustration of the 'deputy' not engaging the shooter. Since the cowardly killer was found blocks away I think he would've fled if simply confronted. Unlike most shooters who commit suicide and/or suicide by cop I think after he realized someone was firing back he would've fled. This is part of the going in strategy stop or delay. The deputy didn't know that but since policy and practice and hopefully training is go in he failed miserably.
 
WhatInThe said:
When I say range I'm including some basic scenarios along with hitting the target. Most military and police do that. Most murdering shooters don't. The Dallas cop killer is the only one that I can recall actually practicing tactics along with shooting. This is exactly it's even more frustrating not seeing this deputy go in because believe or not I think he had a tactical advantage of training and/or repetition.

The deputy's weapon even though a pistol should've/would've been like a common tool at this point and shouldn't have to think about the weapon or aim. If it malfunctions he should instinctively know what to do ie clear a jam etc. Most murdering shooters don't practice or train doing that under pressure, they could do that a range nice and comfortable but can they do it from a kneeling or more awkward position or more importantly while taking fire. Again this a point of frustration of the 'deputy' not engaging the shooter. Since the cowardly killer was found blocks away I think he would've fled if simply confronted. Unlike most shooters who commit suicide and/or suicide by cop I think after he realized someone was firing back he would've fled. This is part of the going in strategy stop or delay. The deputy didn't know that but since policy and practice and hopefully training is go in he failed miserably.
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Totally agree.
 

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