So Much for "Police Protection"
- Thread starter Don M.
- Start date
We're all trained the same way. Its mandatory. His training would be the same as anyone else that initially responded to this. We are trained to do entry in teams with members of our own departments or any other department that arrives or solo.
I've been retired for a couple of years but the training I received here in Canada would almost mirror the training he received.
I've been retired for a couple of years but the training I received here in Canada would almost mirror the training he received.
My thinking....they need to rethink what they are doing.
Yes all are trained the same but, do they really think that if they are put in a position of patrolling a school in (lets just say rural america) that they will ever encounter such things as a mass shooter. So they accept the job but mentally are not prepared....I think not so much.
On the ground intelligence. In other words you go towards the sound of the gunfire or where survivors are directing you, gathering and relaying information to other officers as you are moving towards the threat. In this case the gunfire was ongoing in the building that he was standing in front of. That's where you go. People, children are being slaughtered with each round you hear.
What he did or in this case didnt do is just incomprehensible.
Most of my career was in rural areas. Our job is to be mentally prepared for this or for engaging a threat in a bar or a traffic stop. Your life depends on it, and so does mine. This can happen and does happen everywhere. Schools, factories, churches, rural and City.
Obviously for what ever reason, that only he can explain, he was not mentally prepared and at this point it really doesn't matter. He failed.
What does matter is finding a way of weeding out others like him.
Much will be learned from the post mortem of this event and a lot of it is going to be very sobering.
RadishRose
SF VIP
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
I think he froze, was overcome with fear, I don't think he can sleep at night. I shouldn't feel sorry for him- he let all those kids die, but I think he is anguished about his failure, just imho. I understand now there have been some death threats?
Knight
Well-known Member
I've always considered that it is easy to sit at a computer in the safety of one's home and judge the actions or inaction of another a pretty easy place to judge from. Zero consequences. Charging towards gun fire sounds good until being shot at until you realize you are exposed to an unknown amount of shooters. No way to know who the shooter or shooters are. Most if not all schools have open hall ways with class room doors where multiple shooters could be.
After the fact Monday morning quarter backing when facts are known beats being there and having to decide how to best resolve the situation.
Did the school officer have a vest on? What exactly was his training? I don't know and I haven't read any reports explaining in detail exactly all the scenarios he was trained to deal with.
Bottom line heaping blame on a single person when so many others failed IMO is wrong
Yes have to weed out.. the system has to figure it out. I don't have the answers but somebody has got to figure it out..it may only get worse. If that's possible (not sure it could be).
He appears to be part in a list of many failures.
I trained for this for 15 years and attended calls for possible active shooters at schools {student with a gun}...fortunately they turned to be false alarms, but the response was the same. So yes I'll criticize.
His part of the failure in this was not doing anything and that imho is a very large part.
I trained for this for 15 years and attended calls for possible active shooters at schools {student with a gun}...fortunately they turned to be false alarms, but the response was the same. So yes I'll criticize.
His part of the failure in this was not doing anything and that imho is a very large part.
I don't think he will ever sleep good again..The compassion in me feels deeply for all involved. All being said he could very easily have been among the fatalities. It's just hard to know the heart of anyone else. Just so sad any way you look at it.
RadishRose
SF VIP
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
Yes I agree with you. Exactly how I feel.
SifuPhil
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
- Location
- Pennsylvania, USA
I'll save my pity for those killed.
This guy was wrong, no matter how you look at it.
"To Serve and Protect" ... he did neither.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Death threats flow readily these days.
I understand a (14 year old?) boy survivor who questioned Marco Rubio on TV has also received death threats.
http://nymag.com/selectall/2018/02/florida-shooting-survivor-gets-nra-death-threats-on-facebook.html
.
Lawmaker asks Gov. Scott to remove Broward Sheriff Scott Israel after Parkland shooting
" BOCA RATON, Fla. (CBS12)
Rep. Bill Hager (Boca Raton), the chairman of the Florida House of Justice Appropriations, has called on Gov. Rick Scott to remove Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel - a power the governor has under Florida law - from his post for neglect of duty and incompetence in regards to the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.
In his letter to the governor on Saturday, Hager said that various media outlets reported that the School Resource Officer, Scot Peterson, and three deputies under Sheriff Israel's command "were on campus at the time of the attack and chose to take cover themselves rather than stepping up to protect our students."
more at link
http://cbs12.com/news/local/lawmake...-sheriff-scott-israel-after-parkland-shooting
Lawmaker asks Gov. Scott to remove Broward Sheriff Scott Israel after Parkland shooting
" BOCA RATON, Fla. (CBS12)
Rep. Bill Hager (Boca Raton), the chairman of the Florida House of Justice Appropriations, has called on Gov. Rick Scott to remove Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel - a power the governor has under Florida law - from his post for neglect of duty and incompetence in regards to the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.
In his letter to the governor on Saturday, Hager said that various media outlets reported that the School Resource Officer, Scot Peterson, and three deputies under Sheriff Israel's command "were on campus at the time of the attack and chose to take cover themselves rather than stepping up to protect our students."
more at link
http://cbs12.com/news/local/lawmake...-sheriff-scott-israel-after-parkland-shooting
That's not exactly a true statement. There are several different grades of vests available. Some require that only an armor piercing bullet will penetrate any vest. If a shooter using an AR-15 is using .223 shells, depending on the distance, the vest that I carried would stand up to it. Our vests had a ballistic plate over the heart. Our vests were also stab proof. However, in most cases, large guns using high velocity shells would normally penetrate a vest, but again, it depends on distance and speed of the bullet.
RadishRose
SF VIP
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
Warrigal, I was only asking if the cop at the school received death threats, I'm not discussing Rubio and the boy who spoke with him in this thread; that's another topic. This is about the police protection at the school. Thanks.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Understood RR.
I had just finished reading about the other situation and the thought occurred to me that on social media death threats are very common these days. I imagine this is why the authorities have trouble sorting out the serious threats from the merely nasty. I wonder whether all such threats are followed up with a police interview and serious warning.
I had just finished reading about the other situation and the thought occurred to me that on social media death threats are very common these days. I imagine this is why the authorities have trouble sorting out the serious threats from the merely nasty. I wonder whether all such threats are followed up with a police interview and serious warning.
This presents a complicated situation. If someone threatens another's life, the threat must be credible. Sometimes, more often than not, people will say things they don'y really mean it literally. IOW, if I posted on Facebook that the next time a driver shoots me the bird, I am going to kill him or her, it may be possible that a policeman may seek a warrant to get the poster's IP address from Facebook and from there, obtain their residential address.
A policeman really needs to believe that the threat is credible before he takes any action. To get a judge to sign a warrant for his/her address, you need more than just a post on social media. So, you have to conduct an investigation. I would ask neighbors, coworkers and/or relatives, if they thought the poster was actually capable of carrying out their threat. Maybe then, the officer could obtain a warrant to get the poster's address and go have a talk with that person.
If a cop would walk up to an individual and accuse them of making a threat and that person would deny doing it, then what? Any accusation that you make to an individual requires substantive proof. So, it's best to have something to support the claim made by the officer.
My statements may not satisfy your question, but it's the best that I can do without having more information.
...and there lies part of the problem. A lot of people are just not willing to become involved whether it be friends, relatives, neighbor's, heck even direct witnesses and victims change their level of cooperation more than one would believe throughout the course of an investigation or any subsequent prosecutions.
If a suspect has a running history of such behaviors we still can't charge someone based on that alone. If we do charge someone with a crime such as threatening then and only then can his past be used in evidence, such as a criminal record, or previous incidents that involved police. But still we need witness, victim cooperation and what ever other evidence we can collect to get to that point.
When it comes to detaining someone for a mental health assessment it can prove to be just as complex and there is still that thing of evidence that you need to collect to satisfy his or her detainment. Then of course with mental health assessments not only do you have to satisfy a judge in some cases, you also have to satisfy a doctor and or psychiatrists. In the latter cases the medical professionals usually have the last say on whether a person is detained or not, for how long and what treatment or precautions are required.
Unfortunately we can't arrest on hunches or guesses. {Although in many circumstances those hunches and guesses are right}
If a suspect has a running history of such behaviors we still can't charge someone based on that alone. If we do charge someone with a crime such as threatening then and only then can his past be used in evidence, such as a criminal record, or previous incidents that involved police. But still we need witness, victim cooperation and what ever other evidence we can collect to get to that point.
When it comes to detaining someone for a mental health assessment it can prove to be just as complex and there is still that thing of evidence that you need to collect to satisfy his or her detainment. Then of course with mental health assessments not only do you have to satisfy a judge in some cases, you also have to satisfy a doctor and or psychiatrists. In the latter cases the medical professionals usually have the last say on whether a person is detained or not, for how long and what treatment or precautions are required.
Unfortunately we can't arrest on hunches or guesses. {Although in many circumstances those hunches and guesses are right}
Broward deputies did NOT respond to security alarms on other occasions.
One of the things that has comeout about this non responding pos deputy is that he was paid to live on campus as part of a program to beef up school security. He and others could live rent free on onsite living quarters. After an audit around 2015 the program was considered a waste after they discovered that deputies were not responding to 73% of security alarms. And weren't keeping logs and/or records of their activities.
https://reason.com/blog/2018/02/23/school-resource-officer-scot-peterson-pa
Then when they wanted to terminate the program this pos deputy complained they were messing with 'people's livelyhoods'. Which is just another confirmation he was a clock puncher.
One of the things that has comeout about this non responding pos deputy is that he was paid to live on campus as part of a program to beef up school security. He and others could live rent free on onsite living quarters. After an audit around 2015 the program was considered a waste after they discovered that deputies were not responding to 73% of security alarms. And weren't keeping logs and/or records of their activities.
https://reason.com/blog/2018/02/23/school-resource-officer-scot-peterson-pa
Then when they wanted to terminate the program this pos deputy complained they were messing with 'people's livelyhoods'. Which is just another confirmation he was a clock puncher.
I read that as well. Here north of the border the school resource officer program is being looked at.... policing costs vs value for the $. One large City just put an end to it and others may follow.
shooter eluded the deputies outside
One of the things that seems to be getting lost with these cowardly deputies taking up defensive positions outside is that the shooter got away. They caught him off campus blocks away. Yet they were there before the shooting stopped. So much for their defensive perimeter. I don't recall where exactly did they find the shooters gun again?
One of the things that seems to be getting lost with these cowardly deputies taking up defensive positions outside is that the shooter got away. They caught him off campus blocks away. Yet they were there before the shooting stopped. So much for their defensive perimeter. I don't recall where exactly did they find the shooters gun again?
Well he wasn't underpaid. Nice pension!
Peterson had been the resource officer at Douglas High School since 2009 and made a base annual salary of $75,673.72 as of 2016, according to sheriff’s office records cited by the Sun-Sentinel newspaper.
That base salary, however, doesn’t include longevity and first-responder bonuses that probably brought Peterson’s non-overtime pay closer to $80,000, according to Bell.
Peterson’s pension will be 75 percent of the average of his top five earning years while on the job, the union head said.
Peterson had been the resource officer at Douglas High School since 2009 and made a base annual salary of $75,673.72 as of 2016, according to sheriff’s office records cited by the Sun-Sentinel newspaper.
That base salary, however, doesn’t include longevity and first-responder bonuses that probably brought Peterson’s non-overtime pay closer to $80,000, according to Bell.
Peterson’s pension will be 75 percent of the average of his top five earning years while on the job, the union head said.
Within seconds there is mass chaos with hundreds of kids adults running for their lives as well as classrooms going into lockdown. In this case the pos also set off a fire alarm to add to the chaos. With the limited number of officers that can respond within that 0 - 10 minute window the ability to control that perimeter is challenging to say the least, especially if the shooter can easily mix in and there is a lack of physical descriptors.
However, that's where you rely on the Active Shooter training that teachers and students receive. They help to control that mass panic and confusion while responding officers are inside hunting the pos down and getting information from witnesses they can broadcast out to other officers that are forming that perimeter.
But, if you have no one immediately inside hunting the pos down and relaying information to those establishing a perimeter, and engaging him before he has time to exit or kill even more, that is a big problem.
However, that's where you rely on the Active Shooter training that teachers and students receive. They help to control that mass panic and confusion while responding officers are inside hunting the pos down and getting information from witnesses they can broadcast out to other officers that are forming that perimeter.
But, if you have no one immediately inside hunting the pos down and relaying information to those establishing a perimeter, and engaging him before he has time to exit or kill even more, that is a big problem.