Speakin'a the school shooting

R

rgp

Well-known Member
Location
Milford,OH
Would you be in favor of modifying/lessening, the protection of patient/doctor privilege, as an attempt to better limit the chances of those on the 'edge' from being able to buy a weapon/some particular weapons ?

Listening to much of the talk surrounding this latest shooting [and others]...there are those that feel, that it is imperative in removing the threat to the masses , from those that are having some emotional issues.

One expert even said that it is more of a 'pressing' issue among teens. He went on to say it is due to the sheer fact that their minds are still developing , and in many cases they harbor increased anger...often misunderstood, even unnoticed anger.

I support the second amendment fully, but I believe this is a separate issue.
 

Shootings have been happening for over a century.
http://www.k12academics.com/school-shootings/history-school-shootings-united-states


The differance is IMO the quantity of those killed at one time has significantly increased. The loss of life of one or many is the tradgety.


Given the way things are now it wouldn't surprise me if people began posting weird stuff about killing and hate on social media just to provoke a response. To "test" reporting them.


Take away guns that can kill one or many at one time, other methods would surely be used. Having doctors identify patients with mental problems violates the patients rights. I'm guessing some would want a national mental health registry so crossing state lines would be followed. Hacking that registry then what? Monitoring social media for whacko detection, as I posted the potential for false input would be a problem.


Is there a solution to the mass murders? Seems simple enough ban all automatic & semi automatic firearms. That won't stop murders but should help eliminate the amount killed at one time. Is that progress? One life or many as I posted in the 1st paragragph. The loss of life of one or many is the tradgety.


So what is my solution? I don't have one. I think history shows us that this has always been a part of our society. The increase in population IMO increased the incidence rate and isn't likely to stop.
 
These mass shootings shootings appear to be some sort of perfect storm confluence.

It starts with a disenfranchised, mentally unstable male who wants to go out in a dramatic blaze of glory like his favorite action heroes. Add the availability of military weapons that don't belong in the hands of the public and schools that require vulnerable people to be assembled without genuine protection.

If there were armed guards present at the school, I would be interested in hearing where they were located. They don't appear to have been stationed at the entrances to the school, as common sense would seem to require.
 
rgp said:
Would you be in favor of modifying/lessening, the protection of patient/doctor privilege, as an attempt to better limit the chances of those on the 'edge' from being able to buy a weapon/some particular weapons ?

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No

It's not good to enact laws that negatively affect the law-abiding majority because of the actions of a criminal minority.

There should be stricter criminal laws to punish those who actually commit the crimes.

School officials should be armed and trained how to use the weapons in an emergency.
 
I think part of the issue in this case was/is the suspect is 19 year old young adult. This was not a 16 year old student being picked on. He should not have been afforded any protections or consideration a minor would get. I think when the authorities including school officials and law enforcement disciplined or investigated him he was viewed as a typical high school student making threats, not an adult.
 
Sunny said:
When he was being investigated, maybe he still was a minor.
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They say he was investigated as late as last September which means he still would've been 18, a young adult, not a minor. But they hear high school student subconscientiously they're dealing with a minor.
 
If it's true that our brains continue to develop well into our 20s, I can't see how it would make much difference if they envisioned him as a high school student or as an adult. He seems to have lacked impulse control and that's why he was expelled from school.

I tend to question the quality of these FBI investigations. The gunman who killed two students at Aztec High School in New Mexico was investigated shortly before he committed his crime. I admit I haven't been impressed with the FBI agents I've known. As an example, an agent came to my home early one morning years ago to gather information about a friend who had been kidnapped. He was livid at me and spent most of the time ranting because I was not at home the night before (a far more respectful agent called me later that morning and conducted an actual interview). From what I've seen since then, many agents have too many preconceptions and they are far too arrogant to learn anything. I wonder if agents are taking these investigations seriously enough.
 
Camper6 said:
Why does anyone need an AR-15 weapon designed for the military and is the weapon of choice for mass murders.?
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The answer is that no-one does need one.
People with a gun fetish think they need one, or two, or three ... and so they are still on sale and easy to get.

Is anyone asking how this teenager was able to get his hands on one?
 
The suspect in a Florida school shooting bought the AR-15-style rifle used in the attack legally a year ago, authorities said Thursday.
Nikolas Cruz, 19, is charged with murdering 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, where he had been expelled for fighting, according to authorities.
Cruz legally bought the semiautomatic rifle at a Broward County gun shop last February, law enforcement officials who weren’t authorized to discuss the matter publicly told the Associated Press. The gun, a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 .223, was purchased at Sunrise Tactical Supply, according to AP.
Federal law allows people 18 and older to legally purchase long guns, including this kind of assault weapon. With no criminal record, Cruz cleared an instant background check via the FBI criminal database.
If somebody is adjudicated mentally defective or has been committed to a mental institution, he is prohibited from possessing a firearm under federal law.
Florida Gov. Rick Scott said at a news conference Thursday that he would discuss with the Legislature next week increasing funding for mental-health services and keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill.
“If somebody is mentally ill, they can’t have access to a gun,” Scott said.
Melisa McNeill, his public defender, described Cruz in his initial court appearance Thursday as a "broken child" who suffered brain-development problems and depression.



Gun buyers are seldom turned down because of mental illness. From 1998 to 2014, the FBI rejected 16,669 potential gun buyers because a background check found a mental health adjudication, about 1.4% of the roughly 1.2 million background checks that resulted in a denial.

(This is per USA Today)
 
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Was "Nikolas" Cruz adopted from Russia ??
Russians are infamous for alcohol problems.


" Cruz was adopted at birth, along with his biological brother Zachary, by loving older couple Roger and Lynda Cruz, after the couple moved from Long Island in New York to Broward County. Roger died several years ago from a heart attack.

It's unclear if he was adopted from the U.S. or aboard. Adopted children from abroad sometimes have issues adjusting due to neglect in their orphanages, especially children from Russia. "

*

" Another classmate, Emily Sucher, 16, remembered Cruz as an 'off kid' who would 'smile weirdly, make weird comments.'

In the hours since the shooting, there has been speculation Cruz may have fetal alcohol syndrome - a congenital condition which causes developmental and behavioral issues - given his facial features - a low nasal bridge, small eyes and thin upper lip - and behavior."

more at link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5393601/Instagram-school-shooters-guns-violence-hurting-animals.html

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KingsX said:
No

It's not good to enact laws that negatively affect the law-abiding majority because of the actions of a criminal minority.

There should be stricter criminal laws to punish those who actually commit the crimes.

School officials should be armed and trained how to use the weapons in an emergency.
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I agree. Most mentally ill are not dangerous. Those that flip out and harm others (like 3%) are the minority and people need to know that. I bet that many people who do these shootings have never got any kind of help, too. In addition many who commit crimes are on something at the time like in the case of the murder of a young girl that was on the news. The man who raped and tortured and killed her was on crack cocaine.
 
And that is the problem. It is an insane situation that allows him, or anyone else, to buy such a gun.
Also, the background check must be just a meaningless exercise in box ticking.

For me to get approval to work with children as a volunteer on a management committee it took several weeks for the police to check me out. Then I had to present myself with photo ID before I received an identification number that I must present to any situation where I might be in contact with children. I am now listed on a state data base and if I am even complained about it will be noted on my record. Every 5 years I have to repeat the procedure.

Please tell me that the background check for gun ownership is at least this rigorous.
 
Warrigal said:
And that is the problem. It is an insane situation that allows him, or anyone else, to buy such a gun.
Also, the background check must be just a meaningless exercise in box ticking.

For me to get approval to work with children as a volunteer on a management committee it took several weeks for the police to check me out. Then I had to present myself with photo ID before I received an identification number that I must present to any situation where I might be in contact with children. I am now listed on a state data base and if I am even complained about it will be noted on my record. Every 5 years I have to repeat the procedure.

Please tell me that the background check for gun ownership is at least this rigorous.
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I will tell you that it is not.
 
Warrigal said:
And that is the problem. It is an insane situation that allows him, or anyone else, to buy such a gun.
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I'm sure there are plenty of places where citizens owning guns is illegal.
You might feel safe there. But don't come to Texas; we have open carry.
 
Thanks for the tip, KingsX. I did spend some time in US in 1985, in western states and in NY city. The only guns I laid my eyes on were in the possession of police officers and the guards at military properties. This to me was as things should be and I never felt unsafe whether we were driving on desert roads or walking around SF and NY. I really have no desire to visit any place where civilians have a gun in the purse or strapped to the hip. As for people walking around carrying semi automatic rifles? Yoiks!

I felt safe enough in PNG even though the local men walk around carrying nasty looking machetes. The reason is that the machete has other uses besides killing people. A semi automatic rifle is unlikely to used to cut back weeds in the community garden. It has only one purpose and that is not target practice nor vermin control. It is designed to kill people - lots of people.
 
Warrigal said:
Thanks for the tip, KingsX. I did spend some time in US in 1985, in western states and in NY city. The only guns I laid my eyes on were in the possession of police officers and the guards at military properties. This to me was as things should be and I never felt unsafe whether we were driving on desert roads or walking around SF and NY. I really have no desire to visit any place where civilians have a gun in the purse or strapped to the hip. As for people walking around carrying semi automatic rifles? Yoiks!

I felt safe enough in PNG even though the local men walk around carrying nasty looking machetes. The reason is that the machete has other uses besides killing people. A semi automatic rifle is unlikely to used to cut back weeds in the community garden. It has only one purpose and that is not target practice nor vermin control. It is designed to kill people - lots of people.
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I don't know the crime rate where you live. But in many American cities it is high and it is getting worse.

If you are a woman living in such a city and criminals invade your home, you could hide in a closet, call 911
and hope the police get to you before the criminals. Here in Texas, women are given another choice = self-protection.
 
One thing I have been wondering -- it seems to me that schools should consider locking doors (allowing people to get OUT of the building, but not IN) during school hours and requiring anyone who needed to enter to have some kind of key card or requiring some other kind of school identification or be recognized and invited in by admin. This would be a big hassle, but surely less than the awfulness of having somebody come in off the street and shoot people. I would also advocate for metal detectors in every school at every point of entry. Sad that it has come to this, but surely that would help some.
 
We have crime. Sydney is a big city.

Not far from where I live in the suburbs a man was recently murdered by a gunman while he was sitting in a café. The police have tracked down the culprit and arrested him. Yesterday a known criminal was assassinated in his car by two masked gunmen. They got away. The murdered man had served time for killing a man at Sydney airport by smashing his head in with a bollard. This was during a fight between two bikie gangs.

Today the news was of a would be jihadist being arrested before he could carry out his plan. Our police and security people do their job well.

We have drug dealers and armed holdups but the criminals mostly go to war with each other. Home invasions are usually targeted. Random home invasions are rare.

My home has very little security. We have no front fence and the side gate leading to the back of the house has no lock. When someone knocks on my front door and I open it there is nothing between me and the person outside except an unlocked screen door.

If I felt threatened I would get a dog, not a gun.
 
Butterfly said:
One thing I have been wondering -- it seems to me that schools should consider locking doors (allowing people to get OUT of the building, but not IN) during school hours and requiring anyone who needed to enter to have some kind of key card or requiring some other kind of school identification or be recognized and invited in by admin. This would be a big hassle, but surely less than the awfulness of having somebody come in off the street and shoot people. I would also advocate for metal detectors in every school at every point of entry. Sad that it has come to this, but surely that would help some.
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He got in through some stairwell.
 

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