Texas Cop shoots woman to death inside her own home.

RE applicant/recruit quality/process

911 around here government jobs including police officer are used for political favors. Meaning unless one gets a politician or high ranking government official for a reference they're not going to be hired. Wether a secretary, trash man/women or police officer it's all about those politician references. If you don't know a politician they unofficially tell you off the record if you want x job in the town, county or state 'volunteer' for a politician doing what ever then after a year or so ask them to be a reference when you apply for a government job.

I've heard the recruitment trouble stories for several years now. Last century(oooy) it wasn't uncommon for 200-300 applicants show to take a test for 4-16 openings on the local forces and those test were good for several years. We've gone through periods where government work including law enforcement was one of the higher paying more steady jobs around. It's wasn't until the mid-late 90s local police started getting rid of the I just want a job candidates. I think the tv show COPS actually help create more ambitious applicants/candidates.

The politics with local police hirings got so bad at one point they got caught several times, not just one ignoring civil service test scores. After they rescored them the average applicants test score increased by 10 points or so. They didn't even give combat veterans their points. They hired/approved people with criminal records, didn't meet residency requirements and trouble passing the physical requirement tests. And this was in a day and age before internet so to get exposed and hit the press it had to be pretty bad/notable.

The qualities you suggest/note are ideal but as with any job one doesn't know how a person will really react until they're on a job on their own. Can they learn/adapt beyond the classroom. I picking up almost a not paranoid but over emphasis on potential danger, not eminent danger with many of these shootings. To me thats' training and culture.
 

As with most of these shootings, there is always a "knee jerk" reaction by many before all the facts are in. Now, the latest news is that this woman heard a noise, and took her gun out of her purse....according to her nephew....and pointed it at the window the cop was looking through. The cop was obviously wrong in not announcing his presence, but it looks like there may be bad decisions by both parties.
 
Here is an article with the raw bodycam footage. Second video down

See Raw:Body Cam....
 

Don M. said:
As with most of these shootings, there is always a "knee jerk" reaction by many before all the facts are in. Now, the latest news is that this woman heard a noise, and took her gun out of her purse....according to her nephew....and pointed it at the window the cop was looking through. The cop was obviously wrong in not announcing his presence, but it looks like there may be bad decisions by both parties.
Click to expand...

Well, that changes things .......perhaps he [the cop] didn't announce because he thought he was coming on a crime scene??

After watching the [second]? vid, he did issue a command after seeing the gun.....then quickly shot.

Again, how long are they [cops] expected to wait , before they fire.......to protect themselves?
 
Don M. said:
As with most of these shootings, there is always a "knee jerk" reaction by many before all the facts are in. Now, the latest news is that this woman heard a noise, and took her gun out of her purse....according to her nephew....and pointed it at the window the cop was looking through. The cop was obviously wrong in not announcing his presence, but it looks like there may be bad decisions by both parties.
Click to expand...

So what's wrong with pointing your gun at some shadowy figure prowling your back window at 2 am in the morning?
 
rgp said:
Well, that changes things .......perhaps he [the cop] didn't announce because he thought he was coming on a crime scene??

After watching the [second]? vid, he did issue a command after seeing the gun.....then quickly shot.

Again, how long are they [cops] expected to wait , before they fire.......to protect themselves?
Click to expand...

If someone is prowling around your back window at 2 am in the morning how long are you expected to wait before you fire?.......... to protect yourself?
 
Trade said:
If someone is prowling around your back window at 2 am in the morning how long are you expected to wait before you fire?.......... to protect yourself?
Click to expand...


Both points [yours & mine] are valid......Answer, I do not know.

But, the cop was not "prowling", he was responding to a suspicious call........and technically it is not legal to fire, unless the intruder has crossed the threshold.
 
At times Cops that are primed to shoot people:

I have a point, but it is going to take me a while to get there. Time period 1963...
I was an MP while in the army.
I had a roommate, LeDue, that I thought a lot of; we were tight, really liked to pull duty with him.

One night, my partner, a rookie, were trying to unload a blind-drunk, mean GI from our vehicle and place him in a cell.
My partner was useless, just useless!
As we were in the station, a frantic call from the guy that was partnering with LeDue, He had forgotten radio procedure, was hollering in the mike, 'Help, their killing us.' (The guy hollering for help was one of those useless individuals you did not want to get into a tight situation with.)
We parked the drunk GI with the desk sergeant and hauled ass.
This was a payday weekend, so the other units were tied up.
It took us around ten minutes to get there; the worthless individual was on the radio three times screaming for assistance's.
I was very concerned (frightened?) about the safety of my roommate: LaDue. I knew he was basically by himself with a bunch of
unpredictable blind-drunks; I was driving as fast as I could (with a useless partner) .

I was primed to bring harm to those that had my roommate, LeDue in Jeopardy.
We arrived, LeDue's partner was outside! I cussed him on my way inside the Bar.
Inside, LeDue was pinned against the back wall, his baton was missing, his clothing had been ripped. (heavy uniform jacket) and he was pretty well marked up.
I subdues one GI while working my way to the wall where the other GI's still had LeDue pinned. (Where the hell was my partner
and LeDue's? ) I was more than pissed, I became enraged that LeDue and I were fighting with 6-8 drunk GI's by ourselves.
.
A GI, I have no idea where he came from turned over two flipper games, destroying them (the old flipper machines, you put a coin in, steel balls come out and you use the flippers to play the game.) I was looking for a target: I decided 'I'm going to shoot this s.o.b.) At the moment,
I was still working my way to LeDue. I 'subdued' two GI's on the way, handed my baton to LeDue who was 'helpful.' I started after
the butthole who had torn up the flipper machines-he was now engaged in upending tables.

Finally, finaly, my partner began helping LeDue. He got free of he wall and began doing what needed to be done.

I got the Gi that had destroyed the flipper machines, chocked him down and began dragging him to the door; I had ever intention
of putting a bullet in his ass. I bumped him down the stairs-A German Police car pulled up on the sidewalk.
Was I relieved-No, they were witness. My intentions were thwarted.

That's it, that's the way it occurred. Apparently, it was an incident of tunnel visions. I was pissed at LeDue for getting himself in such a
situation that had scared me (scared for his safety before we arrived) pissed at my useless partner and really pissed at LeDue's partner.
My anger was directed at the drunk GI'. I had ever intention of putting a round in his butt (An unarmed, now subdued GI)
Scared-no, enraged, no more than enraged, totally irrational.

Got out of the army, went to stay with my sister in Detroit for awhile, not sure what I wanted to do, got a dipstick job while I was
planning. The Detroit Police Dept was offering huge bonuses (huge to me) trying to recruit cops. I thought about it, thought about it hard,
decided, ?No, if I were go become a cop, I would shoot somebody, hopefully justified, but a possibility that it would not be-I'm certainly not rational when I lose my temper.

Does that have anything to do with the Dallas or the Fort Worth killings-no! However, cops are citizens of this planet and subject to
all the irrational behaviors our species share. I have no sympathy for the two cops; I'm just glad I was rational enough not to become one.
It appears the female cop in Dallas was primed, given her history and statements.
Neither she or the Fort Worth cop had any provocation to kill innocent people: they will rationalize and offer a reason, in time.
I would say both were 'primed' to shoot someone. My opinion of the Fort Worth is that he was scared (scared without a reason to be scared)
 
rgp said:
Both points [yours & mine] are valid......Answer, I do not know.

But, the cop was not "prowling", he was responding to a suspicious call........and technically it is not legal to fire, unless the intruder has crossed the threshold.
Click to expand...

Your use of the words "suspicious call" in place of "welfare check" in order to make it sound more ominous is duly noted.

Other than showing up at the correct address the cop did not follow any of the correct procedures for conducting a welfare check. He did not knock on the door nor did he identify himself as a police officer. Instead he snuck around the house and peered into the window like a prowler would. At 2:30 am in the morning. You've heard the old saying "If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck?"

So, the victim, a woman alone except for an 8 year old child and sick elderly mother got out her gun and pointed it at the figure outside the window. All this sounds like a perfectly reasonable reaction to me that would meet the approval of anyone who supports the 2nd amendment. You do support the 2nd amendment don't you?
 
Trade said:
Your use of the words "suspicious call" in place of "welfare check" in order to make it sound more ominous is duly noted.

Other than showing up at the correct address the cop did not follow any of the correct procedures for conducting a welfare check. He did not knock on the door nor did he identify himself as a police officer. Instead he snuck around the house and peered into the window like a prowler would. At 2:30 am in the morning. You've heard the old saying "If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck?"

So, the victim, a woman alone except for an 8 year old child and sick elderly mother got out her gun and pointed it at the figure outside the window. All this sounds like a perfectly reasonable reaction to me that would meet the approval of anyone who supports the 2nd amendment. You do support the 2nd amendment don't you?
Click to expand...


I did not "use" anything....a dark residence @ 2:30 am , with an open door is suspicious in it's nature. If he perhaps thought he was going to encounter a criminal/thug.....why would he announce? He likely "peered" into the window, in an attempt to get a drop on the bad guy.......and he did. It was only later that he discovered the "bad-guy" was neither.

A sheer tragedy, but murder?......not in my opinion.
 
rgp said:
Well, that changes things .......perhaps he [the cop] didn't announce because he thought he was coming on a crime scene??

After watching the [second]? vid, he did issue a command after seeing the gun.....then quickly shot.

Again, how long are they [cops] expected to wait , before they fire.......to protect themselves?
Click to expand...

WhatInThe said:
Here is an article with the raw bodycam footage. Second video down

See Raw:Body Cam....
Click to expand...


I can't open the video.
 
Don M. said:
As with most of these shootings, there is always a "knee jerk" reaction by many before all the facts are in. Now, the latest news is that this woman heard a noise, and took her gun out of her purse....according to her nephew....and pointed it at the window the cop was looking through. The cop was obviously wrong in not announcing his presence, but it looks like there may be bad decisions by both parties.
Click to expand...

Assuming that the woman did point the gun at the window, how is that a bad decision? She is a young woman alone in a house with a child and some unknown guy is in her backyard looking in windows? What on earth is wrong with her preparing to defend herself, if necessary? She didn't shoot at the guy in the backyard -- the guy in the backyard shot through the window at her, in her own house. She was within her rights. He wasn't.

If I were alone in the house under similar circumstances, I would probably find my firearm, too. What's the use of the Second Amendment if you are not allowed to pick up your own weapon???
 
Butterfly said:
Assuming that the woman did point the gun at the window, how is that a bad decision? She is a young woman alone in a house with a child and some unknown guy is in her backyard looking in windows? What on earth is wrong with her preparing to defend herself, if necessary? She didn't shoot at the guy in the backyard -- the guy in the backyard shot through the window at her, in her own house. She was within her rights. He wasn't.

If I were alone in the house under similar circumstances, I would probably find my firearm, too. What's the use of the Second Amendment if you are not allowed to pick up your own weapon???
Click to expand...

She didn't know who was in her backyard, and the officer didn't know what he was encountering. That's just a bad combination.

"She was within her rights. He wasn't."

If he looked through the window, and saw a gun pointed at him....he had every right to shoot. The door was partially open, it was dark [2:30 am] and he sees a gun......again I'll ask, just how long should he wait ? If it had been a bad guy, that hesitation might have gotten him killed.
 
Pepper said:
If she was worried about her safety, why would the door be left open?
Click to expand...

Good question. I don't know.

What I do know is that here in the south a lot of black people can't afford air conditioning and they do what they can to deal with the heat and humidity. Maybe that was why.
 
Trade said:
So if I'm prowling around in some woman's back yard at 2:30 am and she points a gun at me through the window I have every right to shoot her?
Click to expand...

NO, you're not supposed to be there........ but a cop, responding to a scene does have every right to defend himself.

And the call is not always what it seems at the outset.

Not long ago , very near here , a cop [his name was Sonny Kim] was called for a bogus reason....the minute he stepped from his car, he was gunned down. They almost have to be 'on-edge' from the time any call comes out.

I wonder why the concerned neighbor didn't call her ? Go knock on her door himself?
 
I don't know why the open door was so important, or even why it was the neighbor's business in the first place. The door could have been open for any number of reasons. The dog had to "go?" The air conditioning wasn't working? She just liked the smell of fresh night air? Somebody had absent-mindedly left the door open? Was this really important enough for the neighbor to get the police involved? Maybe the neighbor was just being a trouble-making busybody?

If he really cared all that much about the woman, why didn't he call her, instead of getting the police involved?

About the cop, I don't know if racism actually came into it or not; maybe he was just dumb and inept. It was the middle of the night, he may have not even been able to see what race the woman was. These shootings by police could be prompted by any number of reasons. I think he was a trigger-
happy idiot, maybe scared for his own life, and obviously poorly suited to be a police officer.

The trial should be interesting. I wonder if the kid will have to testify.
 
911 said:
SeaBreeze, normally I respect your posts, but the post that is in this thread, well, WOW! and I’ll leave it at that.
Click to expand...
That's okay 911, I don't respect or agree with all of your posts either, but I do respect your right to your opinion. :)
 
Sunny said:
I don't know why the open door was so important, or even why it was the neighbor's business in the first place. The door could have been open for any number of reasons. The dog had to "go?" The air conditioning wasn't working? She just liked the smell of fresh night air? Somebody had absent-mindedly left the door open? Was this really important enough for the neighbor to get the police involved? Maybe the neighbor was just being a trouble-making busybody?

If he really cared all that much about the woman, why didn't he call her, instead of getting the police involved?

About the cop, I don't know if racism actually came into it or not; maybe he was just dumb and inept. It was the middle of the night, he may have not even been able to see what race the woman was. These shootings by police could be prompted by any number of reasons. I think he was a trigger-
happy idiot, maybe scared for his own life, and obviously poorly suited to be a police officer.

The trial should be interesting. I wonder if the kid will have to testify.
Click to expand...


You have many questions about the officer & the entire situation yet...........you have no trouble making disparaging remarks about him as well.
 
Boy, rgp, you really do love to argue, don't you? I was actually agreeing with you for once! And yet, "you have no trouble making disparaging remarks" about me as well. Here's a novel idea: how about just taking a deep breath, and stop fighting with everybody?

But (sigh), just for the record, my "many questions" were not about the officer. I was pointing out, as you did a few notes earlier, that the concerned neighbor should have just contacted the woman herself, rather than running to the police. The door could have been open for any number of reasons.

But something "stinks" about this whole story, aside from dealing with the cop. Think for a moment; if you saw somebody's door open in the middle of the night, unless they were your own very elderly parents, or a very close friend, would you even give a second thought to it? And would you think of calling the police, rather than contacting the neighbor? "Hi, sorry to disturb you at this hour, I just noticed that your door is open, is everything all right?"

I live in a hi-rise. Once, I absent-mindedly left my keys hanging in the door. At about 10 PM. a neighbor knocked on the door to tell me about it. I was very grateful. Nobody called building security or the police! If I saw somebody else's keys hanging in their door, and I knocked and no one answered, or if it really was the middle of the night, I'd probably take the keys for safe-keeping, and slip a note under their door. (Actually, I did that once.)

I have no "questions" about the cop being an inept idiot. Good grief, what other conclusion could we sanely come to? He responds to a call and starts meaninglessly firing through a window at a woman standing in her own home? Uh, let's see, there's gotta be a good reason.... I'm sure his lawyer is trying very hard to come up with one right now...
 
Sunny said:
Boy, rgp, you really do love to argue, don't you? I was actually agreeing with you for once! And yet, "you have no trouble making disparaging remarks" about me as well. Here's a novel idea: how about just taking a deep breath, and stop fighting with everybody?

But (sigh), just for the record, my "many questions" were not about the officer. I was pointing out, as you did a few notes earlier, that the concerned neighbor should have just contacted the woman herself, rather than running to the police. The door could have been open for any number of reasons.

But something "stinks" about this whole story, aside from dealing with the cop. Think for a moment; if you saw somebody's door open in the middle of the night, unless they were your own very elderly parents, or a very close friend, would you even give a second thought to it? And would you think of calling the police, rather than contacting the neighbor? "Hi, sorry to disturb you at this hour, I just noticed that your door is open, is everything all right?"

I live in a hi-rise. Once, I absent-mindedly left my keys hanging in the door. At about 10 PM. a neighbor knocked on the door to tell me about it. I was very grateful. Nobody called building security or the police! If I saw somebody else's keys hanging in their door, and I knocked and no one answered, or if it really was the middle of the night, I'd probably take the keys for safe-keeping, and slip a note under their door. (Actually, I did that once.)

I have no "questions" about the cop being an inept idiot. Good grief, what other conclusion could we sanely come to? He responds to a call and starts meaninglessly firing through a window at a woman standing in her own home? Uh, let's see, there's gotta be a good reason.... I'm sure his lawyer is trying very hard to come up with one right now...
Click to expand...


You said......

"About the cop, I don't know if racism actually came into it or not; maybe he was just dumb and inept. It was the middle of the night, he may have not even been able to see what race the woman was. These shootings by police could be prompted by any number of reasons. I think he was a trigger-
happy idiot, maybe scared for his own life, and obviously poorly suited to be a police officer."

How is that, remarking about the neighbor ? How is that not disparaging about the officer.

I said nothing disparaging about you, just pointed out what you said......perhaps i should have ended with a question mark......

You went on to say........"I have no "questions" about the cop being an inept idiot. "

How do you know he was inept ? Were you there ? are you a trained police officer?

I am not..."fighting with everybody?" I am only defending my opinion.......just like you.
 


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