The Derek Chauvin Trial

Don M. said:
And then, we have Idiots like Maxine Waters....politician from California....who is encouraging protesters to ramp up their rioting if Chauvin isn't found guilty and given a harsh sentence. When...not If...these riots start up, I hope one takes place in her neighborhood.

https://news.yahoo.com/maxine-waters-tells-protesters-stay-145954822.html
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This raises the question as to whether the jury were instructed to bring a verdict of guilty, because the authorities were afraid of what might happen if they did not.
 

Sunny said:
JimBob, from several of your last few posts on this subject:

"Oh please. I'm sorry George Floyd died but he had five children "without benefit of clergy" that he didn't care a damn about.

The out of wedlock birth rate among black people in the US is about 73 percent. That's a major factor in the problems we're all facing.

I'm glad you have known white women who had children with multiple fathers. Statistically, however, the illegitimacy rate among black people is much higher than it is among white people.

There is racism and a lack of opportunity, but there are also cultural factors (the high rate of illegitimate births among them) that exacerbate the problem.

And finally,

I don't care if people have children in or out of marriage."

Huh?
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Yes, I admit it. I'm a hard core Puritan. I think people should get married before they have children, and then should take responsibility for those children. I think children brought up that way (in a stable, two parent household) have a better shot at success in life. I'm not sure what happens to children brought up in a stable, two-parent household where the parents aren't actually married, but it's probably not a terrible outcome. However, those aren't the kind of situations we're talking about here, and you know it.

So send the PC police after me.
 
Rosemarie said:
This raises the question as to whether the jury were instructed to bring a verdict of guilty, because the authorities were afraid of what might happen if they did not.
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Any such instructions to the jury would be grounds for a mistrial and a set-aside of the verdict.
 

Me: It's my opinion that Chauvin is guilty of manslaughter

Win: You live in a world of make believe where all police officers are heroes & should be permitted to decide who lives & who dies because they are above the law.
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Win, you live in a world of straw man arguments in which, unsurprisingly, you always win.
 
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Sunny said:
JimBob, from several of your last few posts on this subject:

"Oh please. I'm sorry George Floyd died but he had five children "without benefit of clergy" that he didn't care a damn about.

The out of wedlock birth rate among black people in the US is about 73 percent. That's a major factor in the problems we're all facing.

I'm glad you have known white women who had children with multiple fathers. Statistically, however, the illegitimacy rate among black people is much higher than it is among white people.

There is racism and a lack of opportunity, but there are also cultural factors (the high rate of illegitimate births among them) that exacerbate the problem.

And finally,

I don't care if people have children in or out of marriage."

Huh?
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Della said:
Me: It's my opinion that Chauvin is guilty of manslaughter

Win: You live in a world of make believe where all police officers are heroes & should be permitted to decide who lives & who dies because they are above the law.
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Win, you live in a world of straw man arguments in which, unsurprisingly, you always win.
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Do what I do with Win and others, and use the Ignore button.
 
Rosemarie said:
This raises the question as to whether the jury were instructed to bring a verdict of guilty, because the authorities were afraid of what might happen if they did not.
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Cannot imagine this happened. It would have been grounds for an instant mistrial and disbarment (at the very least) of whichever judge or attorney made those instructions.

The preponderance of evidence was against Chauvin, including his own testimony in the form of nine plus minutes of video.
 
win231 said:
Murder is a crime. And you know that.
What Chauvin did was worse than anything Floyd did. And you know that.
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Nice try at deflection to avoid admitting you are wrong, but nope. In your post #571 you said "Once a suspect is handcuffed, the game is over." That is just flat wrong, and when you were called out on it you did a major pivot to something else. Be a man and admit you are wrong.
 
JimBob, I agree with much of what you said, about children needing stable families, caring parents, etc. The only part that I thought was pretty irritating and irrelevant was whether or not Floyd and the mother of his children were legally married. There are people who are perfectly wonderful parents without "benefit of clergy," as you quaintly put it.

And of course, the opposite is also true. There are many people who are legally married and practice brutal sadism on each other, and on their children. I don't think you are adding anything to your argument by continuously raising the issue of whether they had a wedding or not.
 
Rosemarie said:
This raises the question as to whether the jury were instructed to bring a verdict of guilty, because the authorities were afraid of what might happen if they did not.
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They didn't need instructions. The jury wasn't sequestered until arguments were over and they went into deliberate, so they new full well the temperament on the streets.
 
Sunny said:
I don't think you are adding anything to your argument by continuously raising the issue of whether they had a wedding or not.
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I surprised myself when I became pregnant with my son. I told my soon to be husband that I didn't want a child outside of marriage, and he was glad to oblige. I didn't know I felt that way for myself until it happened to me. Just didn't want to do it.
 
Sunny said:
JimBob, I agree with much of what you said, about children needing stable families, caring parents, etc. The only part that I thought was pretty irritating and irrelevant was whether or not Floyd and the mother of his children were legally married. There are people who are perfectly wonderful parents without "benefit of clergy," as you quaintly put it.

And of course, the opposite is also true. There are many people who are legally married and practice brutal sadism on each other, and on their children. I don't think you are adding anything to your argument by continuously raising the issue of whether they had a wedding or not.
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OK. I'm not making myself understood.

I don't care if George Floyd ever got married. I do care (in the abstract) that he and many other people see fit to sire multiple children and abandon them to their fates. That doesn't mean that I wanted him to die. It does mean that he should not be held up as some sort of saint, at least not in my opinion.

All this is pretty pointless and going forward I'll confine my posting to music and what I like on top of my cupcakes.
 
JimBob1952 said:
To me, the big question is why our society produces so many George Floyds. There is racism and a lack of opportunity, but there are also cultural factors ...
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One of my black female friends in her 70s HATES rap/hip hop culture with a passion, She says she and others of her age put their lives on the line for civil rights only to have rap/hip hop come along to denigrate her granddaughters and give black crime star status. She knows that rap/hip hop isn't solely to blame for drug and crimes since she and I both know plenty of white user criminals in our community that don't listen to it. It certainly doesn't help though.
 
Lewkat said:
This decision will be appealed for many years to come as the judge gave the jury 3 instructions as to which Chauvin was guilty of if at all. To find him guilty of all 3 is like saying he killed Floyd 3 times, which is totally impossible. That he should have let Floyd stand up once he said he could not breathe is not even debatable. To ignore the man was out and out negligence, but was it deliberate murder? Were I a juror, this would be my question. Manslaughter or negligent murder yes, I agree with one or both. But, will the appeals courts do so in the end? You can bet, they will dredge up Floyd's criminal past and involvement in drugs. This could cause the original charges to get lost in the shuffle. This is why I am uncomfortable with the Judge's instructions.
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Like ohioboy said, it wasn't 3 charges of murder. It's like if a guy murdered someone with an illegal firearm, he'd be charged for murder plus the charge of possessing an illegal firearm. And if he's an ex-felon, there'd be at least one additional charge.

They shouldn't have let Floyd stand up because he was resisting arrest, but once he was under control, and he was, Chauvin should definitely have taken his knee off the man's neck.

I doubt Floyd's extensive and violent criminal past would be drudged up in an appeal hearing, but there's a good chance the crimes he was committing at the time of his arrest would be.
 
JimBob, since you did mention the marriage thing at least 4-5 times, it certainly sounds like that was your main focus. I'm glad to hear it wasn't.
It was also totally irrelevant to the subject. Maybe a discussion about whether marriage is an important factor in raising children would be an interesting subject for another discussion.

As far as Floyd being a "saint," I've never heard anyone imply that that was the case. He's usually described as a pretty troubled individual. So what? In this crime, he was a victim, period. You don't have to be a saint to be a victim. How he lived his life was irrelevant to the crime. I'm sure Chauvin and his (very few) supporters tried to deflect blame away from him by playing the "black reprobate" card. It didn't work in this case. Thanks to that video, and the testimony of all those horrified vitnesses, and the testimony against Chauvin by other police officers, including the Chief of Police, he didn't have a leg to stand on. Floyd could have been the biggest villain that ever lived, but it didn't matter. No one deserves to die that way, and no one appointed Chauvin as the executioner.
 
Dana said:
You have a point … however, the way you’re putting it across does not make any sense in this modern era. “Out of wedlock” is so old hat…one does not have to be married to have a child. If you say, too many people from a particular section of society are ignoring birth control, then I can accede to that.

In any event…in this case none of these sentiments are relevant. We are dealing with the actions of a police officer that resulted in the death of a person, regardless of how many children he fathered.
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Dana, I believe JimBob's point is that (currently) 75% of Black children in America are growing up without a father. For the past 40 years, the increase in fatherless families among Blacks matches up with the increase in crime among Black youths.

(I'll see if I can find that graph. Hope I saved it.)
 
To me it was a case of 2d degree murder and deserving of a 40 year prison sentence without possibility of parole.

As for the $27 million in financial compensation given to Floyd's family, it should be financed by the police union, not by the taxpayers.
 
Sunny said:
JimBob, since you did mention the marriage thing at least 4-5 times, it certainly sounds like that was your main focus. I'm glad to hear it wasn't.
It was also totally irrelevant to the subject. Maybe a discussion about whether marriage is an important factor in raising children would be an interesting subject for another discussion.

As far as Floyd being a "saint," I've never heard anyone imply that that was the case. He's usually described as a pretty troubled individual. So what? In this crime, he was a victim, period. You don't have to be a saint to be a victim. How he lived his life was irrelevant to the crime. I'm sure Chauvin and his (very few) supporters tried to deflect blame away from him by playing the "black reprobate" card. It didn't work in this case. Thanks to that video, and the testimony of all those horrified vitnesses, and the testimony against Chauvin by other police officers, including the Chief of Police, he didn't have a leg to stand on. Floyd could have been the biggest villain that ever lived, but it didn't matter. No one deserves to die that way, and no one appointed Chauvin as the executioner.
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You are absolutely right in every way. I bow to your wisdom and superior knowledge.
 
The jury, and the judge, were coersed. The verdict may have been the right one, but whether it was or was not, there was coersion going on, and a lot of it and no steps were taken to prevent, or even reduce it.
 
Murrmurr said:
Dana, I believe JimBob's point is that (currently) 75% of Black children in America are growing up without a father. For the past 40 years, the increase in fatherless families among Blacks matches up with the increase in crime among Black youths.

(I'll see if I can find that graph. Hope I saved it.)
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Murrmurr...I don't disbelieve that point at all. I have heard and read the same from black women themselves, who lament the case of absent black fathers and would like to see this rectified. In the old days, children were looked after by grandmas and aunts etc and this "culture" has seeped into today's society. I believe provision for birth control would be a great boon for both black and white men.
 
Della said:
Yet, there seems to be an enormous angry mob wanting to stone Chauvin to death for his mistake.
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Chauvin hardly made a mistake, he knew exactly what he was doing, and, imo, he was loving it. Sure, if you wish, you can classify any unnatural act as a mistake by a loose or dictionary definition, something that was done that shouldn't have been done. His ego was not a mistake, he was proud of it.
 
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