The Measure of a Man

Gaer said:
To stand alone in the face of adversity, to hold to your stance and your mettle, discover your true worth, to risk the loss of your position, your material accumulations, all you've built and acquired, for your principles and convictions ,your inate sense of right and wrong, your values, your ethics, the stuff of your soul; this is your measure.

Are you to kneel to mobs of anarchic so as not to be considered "racist"? Label me what you will, for names don't hurt. The mob cries out, "Show us you're ashamed to be white. Kneel in submission. Spit on your flag. Turn your backs on your symbol of America. Humble before us."

Stand tall and be shown as a man among men. Bow and yeild to no man, no mob,no institution, no ideology. Don't give your dignity, your self=esteem, your individuality, your self-worth. Revere in the strengths of your ethics, your values , your resolve, your thoughts and mind, your integrity, and the qualities of your soul.

If it comes to your body being slain for your beliefs, let it be,for you will live through eternity. Should you find yourself one against a thousand, lift your head high and walk into the storm like you own it. Don't cower in fear but be your own man. Give no thought to what of yours will be lost,but rather the strength you are gaining in your soul. You are showing the world, yourself and your maker exactly what qualities you possess as a man.
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Hmmmm......you really must stop writing these flattering stories about me, Gaer, I blush so easily....😊
 

Wow, I cannot for the life of me understand how so many alleged educated people missed the entire point of what Gaer wrote. Either that, or many are so politically blinded, that one word or a phrase or paragraph is taken out of context of the entire statement and when applied to today's temperature, simply feeds their paranoia.
 
Rudyard Kipling's poem "If" I still feel resonates so much today, and conveys the message the OP wished to convey too:

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!"
 

Old&InTheWay said:
see, this is the problem with the internet. The lady writes a heartfelt, cogent post about staying true to oneself, and there is nothing negative or hurtful at all in the post, and then someone comes along and brings up Hitler. I mean, REALLY??
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That's the way it is here. If it's not in the diary section apparently it's free game.
 
I get so tired of these supposed descriptions of what is a man; he is a human and he doesn't need prove anything to anyone. The same is true of a woman. There are wide variations in both genders and the same qualities that make a man make a woman - ethics empathy/compassion and respect for your fellow humans among others.
 
Nozzle36 said:
I get so tired of these supposed descriptions of what is a man; he is a human and he doesn't need prove anything to anyone. The same is true of a woman. There are wide variations in both genders and the same qualities that make a man make a woman - ethics empathy/compassion and respect for your fellow humans among others.
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I've some sympathy with your argument, but do you realise the damage you might be doing to the "self help" book market, if everyone were to listen to you (?).
In my own life I'll settle for "military medium pace", (if that the correct cricketing term no one will understand here perhaps, but said for effect!, I.e. not very ambitious in life, but glad to be alive and kicking! :) .
 
grahamg said:
Kipling's poem "If" fits the bill doesn't it!

Sorry I can only half remember bits of it, and its too good to mangle really, all clever, memorable finish too, ...."If everone around you is losing their heads and blaming it on you,.... if you can withstand all this you'll be a man my son, and the world is yours and all that's in it"! (y) .
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Snap, Graham. I was thinking about this poem too.

Here's a link to the audio - https://www.poetryfoundation.org/play/77063

And the actual poem - https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46473/if---
 
Gaer said:
To stand alone in the face of adversity, to hold to your stance and your mettle, discover your true worth, to risk the loss of your position, your material accumulations, all you've built and acquired, for your principles and convictions ,your inate sense of right and wrong, your values, your ethics, the stuff of your soul; this is your measure.

Are you to kneel to mobs of anarchic so as not to be considered "racist"? Label me what you will, for names don't hurt. The mob cries out, "Show us you're ashamed to be white. Kneel in submission. Spit on your flag. Turn your backs on your symbol of America. Humble before us."

Stand tall and be shown as a man among men. Bow and yeild to no man, no mob,no institution, no ideology. Don't give your dignity, your self=esteem, your individuality, your self-worth. Revere in the strengths of your ethics, your values , your resolve, your thoughts and mind, your integrity, and the qualities of your soul.

If it comes to your body being slain for your beliefs, let it be,for you will live through eternity. Should you find yourself one against a thousand, lift your head high and walk into the storm like you own it. Don't cower in fear but be your own man. Give no thought to what of yours will be lost,but rather the strength you are gaining in your soul. You are showing the world, yourself and your maker exactly what qualities you possess as a man.
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I wish more of us had the courage to stand up for the truth. Now they are saying that England does not belong to the white people.!! Personally I think jealousy is at the root of all of this. Jealousy of white people and the society they have created.
 
Old&InTheWay said:
see, this is the problem with the internet. The lady writes a heartfelt, cogent post about staying true to oneself, and there is nothing negative or hurtful at all in the post, and then someone comes along and brings up Hitler. I mean, REALLY??
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Sorry, Old&InTheWay, but that first post was hugely offensive to anyone who read it carefully and thought about what it was really saying. The reference to Nazi Germany (not by me, but I agree with it) was right on the mark. Buried in that inspiring-sounding rhetoric, heavily "borrowed" from Rudyard Kipling's poem, is a message that is ugly and downright scary. And it is not the message of the country that I know and love.

The message of that poem (not her note, the original poem) is: Be true to your beliefs, and stand firm. It applies just as well to the Black Lives Matter movement as to whatever movement the OP is promoting. It applies to anything that one fervently believes. Stand behind your beliefs. If you reverse the races she refers to, the message remains just as valid. In fact, the poem applies even better that way. From my understanding of the Black Lives Matter movement, what the black people want is not to bring white people to their knees; all they are demanding is the same rights white people have. And it's about time!

Why should giving one group the equal rights they are entitled to mean that another group has to be brought to their knees? Who is
"spitting" on anyone's flag? From what hateful depths does this rhetoric originate? Fear over losing the racist advantage?

Her message may be "heartfelt and cogent" in your eyes; what came through loud and clear to me was arrogant white racism. It requires any person of good will toward their fellow human beings to: "Revere in the strengths of your ethics, your values , your resolve, your thoughts and mind, your integrity, and the qualities of your soul. "
 
Gaer said:
To stand alone in the face of adversity, to hold to your stance and your mettle, discover your true worth, to risk the loss of your position, your material accumulations, all you've built and acquired, for your principles and convictions ,your inate sense of right and wrong, your values, your ethics, the stuff of your soul; this is your measure.

Are you to kneel to mobs of anarchic so as not to be considered "racist"? Label me what you will, for names don't hurt. The mob cries out, "Show us you're ashamed to be white. Kneel in submission. Spit on your flag. Turn your backs on your symbol of America. Humble before us."

Stand tall and be shown as a man among men. Bow and yeild to no man, no mob,no institution, no ideology. Don't give your dignity, your self=esteem, your individuality, your self-worth. Revere in the strengths of your ethics, your values , your resolve, your thoughts and mind, your integrity, and the qualities of your soul.

If it comes to your body being slain for your beliefs, let it be,for you will live through eternity. Should you find yourself one against a thousand, lift your head high and walk into the storm like you own it. Don't cower in fear but be your own man. Give no thought to what of yours will be lost,but rather the strength you are gaining in your soul. You are showing the world, yourself and your maker exactly what qualities you possess as a man.
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Do you mean "Don't give (up) your dignity, your self=esteem, your individuality, your self-worth?
 
jerry old said:
What, a patriot that is white=tell me, what is wrong with than!
Our values are not that different than the bulk of post over the last few days, but we have our own values too, we have room for both-you?
Back off and think
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Patriot? Hmm Patriot Act any resemblance ?
 
The Measure of a Man

Quite a title

Very thought provoking
Doubt I understand the full extent of what you've penned

But, I really like this stuff, Gaer

Gaer said:
To stand alone in the face of adversity, to hold to your stance and your mettle, discover your true worth, to risk the loss of your position, your material accumulations, all you've built and acquired, for your principles and convictions ,your inate sense of right and wrong, your values, your ethics, the stuff of your soul; this is your measure.
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I've not been 'tested' to that extent

Defending my stuff and family.....I've been tested considerably

Anybody comes my way intending harm to my place, friends, or fam...
They'll have their hands full

They may walk in

They'll limp out.....if they're able to yet move

Way it's been for me for a very long time

git.jpg



But to give up something dear for what I believe in, or thought I believed in?

Not sure how I'd do

I have mixed feelings about things lately
 
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Rosemarie said:
I wish more of us had the courage to stand up for the truth. Now they are saying that England does not belong to the white people.!! Personally I think jealousy is at the root of all of this. Jealousy of white people and the society they have created.
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Please tell me that you meant this ironically.

Countries belong to all of their citizens. There's far more than jealousy at play when one race dominates and oppresses others.

Most "white people" in countries represented on this board should have learned this by our shameful histories of domination and decimation of indigenous peoples, colonialism, outright enslavement of human beings (or the aiding, abetting or profiting from same), and other ugly pasts.
 
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Gary O' said:
...

Doubt I understand the full extent of what you've penned

...
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I don't think anyone does, lol. Patriotism comes through loud and clear as does resistance to mob coercion. Racial veiws are unclear. Writing with ambiguity is compelling for some subjects ...this one not so much. It makes the piece provocative on several levels, though, and I think that's deliberate.
 
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'Mob coercion', I like that...and a lily-livered government that gives in to it. Now we all know who is really in charge!
 
Over the weekend in Houston some goons escaped their cages and spray painted racial slurs on 16 neighborhood vehicles and sidewalks. The neighborhood responded in droves by removing the crap with pressure washers, polish, cleaner waxes etc. So to the goons I am certain as you watched the local news to witness the reaction to your little tricks in the night you were grieving and crying to learn your artwork did not sell. For your next act I suggest you do it in broad daylight and instead of sneaking around why not walk up to their front doors and express your opinions to their faces? Remember, you are in Texas.
 
fmdog44 said:
Over the weekend in Houston some goons escaped their cages and spray painted racial slurs on 16 neighborhood vehicles and sidewalks. The neighborhood responded in droves by removing the crap with pressure washers, polish, cleaner waxes etc. So to the goons I am certain as you watched the local news to witness the reaction to your little tricks in the night you were grieving and crying to learn your artwork did not sell. For your next act I suggest you do it in broad daylight and instead of sneaking around why not walk up to their front doors and express your opinions to their faces? Remember, you are in Texas.
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This is all it needs...for decent, law-abiding people to stand up to the yobs. Unfortunately, though, they don't always get the support they need from the authorities.
 
We are taking ourselves much too seriously.
Make your post, strained through your belief system-then move on.
You disagree-okay that's cool; however, when you twist the intent of another
poster-uncool.
 
I think we view people and the world very differently. My measure of a person (measure of a man is very sexist to me) is how open their mind is to new ideas and how they are willing to dig deeply and consider challenges to their beliefs without objecting to other ideas out of hand.

For me this portion of the original post "your inate sense of right and wrong" is especially troubling. There are still far too many people who's "innate sense of right and wrong" tell then that the races shouldn't mix, that certain races are inferior to other races, that certain religions are blasphemous.

I have never felt any pressure to be ashamed of being white.
 
Janice M: Thank you. You're so sweet!
Ferocious: You're awesome!
Sunny: I've never read Rudyard Kipling but it's kind of you to compare me to him. I'm more a Goethe and Emerson follower.
 
asp3 said:
I think we view people and the world very differently. My measure of a person (measure of a man is very sexist to me) is how open their mind is to new ideas and how they are willing to dig deeply and consider challenges to their beliefs without objecting to other ideas out of hand.
For me this portion of the original post "your inate sense of right and wrong" is especially troubling. There are still far too many people who's "innate sense of right and wrong" tell then that the races shouldn't mix, that certain races are inferior to other races, that certain religions are blasphemous. I have never felt any pressure to be ashamed of being white.
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Are you completely unable to assess men as men, and women as women? Would it be completely wrong to comment someone was a good mother, and expect the term to be understood by those listening?
 

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