Wal-Mart to stop selling assault rifles!

"Fear of weapons is a sign of retarted sexual and emotional maturity" Sigmund Freud.
Not using spellcheck is kind of retarded too...n' Sigmund had a habit so I take him with a grain of salt.

But seriously, what does it say about our society when people want to bicker about what sized guns they can own. I've read enough human interest stories about gun culture. It becomes with some people like "My guns bigger than your gun nyahnyahnyah". The guns that should be banned period are any type that make it too easy to get off repeat shots.

They make sense in combat obviously, but using them at your local mall or movie theater is just bad manners...so just make it a crime to even manufacture them.
 
There is no law preventing the use of hollow point bullets. A common load for say a .38 caliber would be a S@W special plus P. It is a killer. It is made for one thing only, killing the recipient.
 

After reading this entire bunch of responses I say no one ever really described the product that WalMart is stopping from selling.

One is that it is not the same gun the military is using at all. It looks like one but for one big difference. This gun is single shot and does not shoot like a machine gun would do. Each shot requires a finger pull of the trigger and only one shot goes off. A second pull of the trigger will release the second shot. And so forth for all bullets in the chamber.

The real military rifle would only take on pull and hold of the trigger and all bullets in the chamber will be fired in rapid succession till the chamber is empty. Hunters and home protectors don't need the full military style of weapons and nobody sells them publicly that I know of. Might be so, just don't know about those places. Not sure if it would be legal to do so either.
 
There you go, yet another thing that should be regulated...so you're saying someone would not be going deer hunting with hollow point bullets right?
 
Heard the headlines from a number of media outlets, yesterday. "WalMart to cease selling assault rifles" or "WalMart to cease selling AR-15 type rifles". In all those reports, the reason for no longer inventorying them was low sales volume.

So, I pick up the USA Today at my hotel this morning. "WalMart to cease selling modern hunting rifles". Quite a difference. For a while, thought I was reading the WSJ or listening to Faux Noise.
 
As one of the "uninformed", I have had to do my own research to make sense of the various answers posted here.

I decided to look up "hollow pointed bullets Australia" to see what the situation is over here. This is one page that tells me that hollow pointed bullets are best used for smaller game.

bullethead.jpg

With so many choices these days , which projectile (bullet) to use for different hunting situations is something that can be confusing for new and old hunters alike. To decide which bullet is best for your situation , you have to know how they work. To try to explain this , firstly I will have to give you a quick Physics lesson (I'll try not to be too boring!).

Once a bullet is projected from the muzzle of a rifle , it possesses what is called Momentum. This is an energy that it possesses , and is affected by the mass of the bullet , and the velocity it is travelling at. Now this is the important part: when a bullet hits a target (goat , pig , etc.) this energy (momentum) that it possesses is transferred on to the target. The effectiveness of the bullet is judged by the amount of energy that the bullet possesses , and how quickly this energy is transferred to the target. The slower the bullet transfers the energy (slows down) , the less effective the bullet ; similarly the quicker the bullet transfers the energy , the more effective the bullet (the bigger the shock caused to the animal).

So , what we want is a bullet that will transfer its energy quickly onto its target. This is where soft-point and hollow-point projectiles come into their own.
mushroom.jpg
They are designed to "mushroom" or expand when they hit any resistance (ie. animal flesh). This expansion makes the diameter of the bullet increase. This is done for two reasons: When travelling through flesh , this expansion slows the bullet down quicker than a bullet that doesn't mushroom (ie. full-metal-jacketed bullet) , and causes the energy to transfer in a shorter time span , causing greater shock. And the other reason is that when the bullet increases in diameter , it leaves a wider wound channel in the animal , causing greater damage and a quicker kill.

However we don't want the bullet to expand too quickly , because when this happens , the bullet explodes when it hits the animal's hide , and doesn't cause penetration. We want what is called Controlled Expansion. We want a bullet that will be solid enough to penetrate , but be soft enough to expand inside the animal. This is what you should be looking for in a good bullet!

smallgame.jpg

When I say small game animals , I am meaning anything from crows and rabbits up to animals about the size of a fox. When we target any animal , we must decide what we want to use that animal for once we have harvested it , and this will also help us to determine what type of bullet we use. The reason being that soft-point and hollow-point projectiles can cause excessive meat and skin damage ,so if you are hunting for meat or skins , its wise to stick with a full-metal-jacket.

Small game animals in Australia don't have very tough skins , therefore big heavy solid projectiles aren't needed when hunting them. So if you were using a .22 centrefire to hunt say rabbits and crows for eradication , a light frangible hollow-point or soft-point weighing about 40-55grains would be what you would choose. Generally hollow points are only used on small game because of their explosive nature , however there are some specialty bullets used for larger game that will be discussed later on.

Foxes being larger and stronger than rabbits require a little heavier , and bit more solid bullet. A soft point around the 50-60 grain mark is a good start for eradication , however if you wanted to keep the pelt , it might be wiser to use a FMJ.


mediumgame.jpg

Medium game animals such as wild dogs , goats , pigs , and some of the smaller deer species require a bit more gun to get through their solid skins , especially the tough hide on some big boars. You would definately NOT be using hollow-point varmint bullets on these guys!

Everyone has their own favourite load , and eventually you will find your own ; but in general using a popular calibre such as the .243 , soft-point bullets weighing about 70-90 grains should do the job ; and for the larger pigs and small deer , weights from about 80-110 grains are suitable. If you are serious about medium game , then a bit bigger calibre such as the .270 , spitting out their 100-140 grain bullets at around 3,000 ft./sec might be more to your liking.


largegame.jpg

Hunting large game such as large boars , deer , scrub-bulls , and buffalo put great demands on a bullet to expand properly , and stay intact whilst in the animal. This is achieved by using soft-points (both round a pointy) with a bit thicker copper jacket around the core. This causes the bullet to be able to penetrate the hide , expand , and stay intact until it has finished its job and lodges inside the animal. That is the aim for any medium and large game hunting bullet , for the bullet to lodge inside the animal after it has done its job , because this shows that all the bullets energy was passed on to the animal , and if this happens , its is rare that a second shot is needed.


special.jpg
With advances in all areas of ballistics , hunting bullets have also advanced considerably over the last few years. I will quickly go through some of the more well known specialty bullets.

Barnes-X Bullet
 The Barnes-X bullet
barnesx.jpg
has been a revolution in bullet making since its introduction in 1989. Made from solid copper , and heat treated for toughness , this bullet is the choice for serious hunting. Its hollow point , with grooves to promote it expanding into 4 petals make it an instant killer ; not only expanding , but the petals cut their way through flesh like a buzz-saw. On thing though , because they are made from solid copper , they are slightly longer than that of a conventional bullet of the same weight. But if is it the Rolls Royce of bullets you are after , then this is it!

Hornaday V-max
 These varmint bullet are explosive on small game like rabbits and crows out as far as they can be shot. The secret is that the bullet is like a conventional hollow-point , but these have like a plastic tip inserted into the cavity. When these bullets hit their target , the tip is rammed back into the cavity causing it to expand very rapidly. Basically the thing blows up! If you looking for a varmint bullet , then their hard to go past.

Remington Bronze Point
 This is basically the same as the hornaday v-max ,
bronze.jpg
but it is designed for larger game. Instead of having plastic as the tip , these use a bronze insert. They have very low ballistic co-efficeients (don't slow up much through air) , and expand well out at longer ranges. They are very good for medium size game at longer than usual ranges.

Remington Swift A-frame
 These are designed for BIG game animals ,
aframe.jpg
and are constructed to hold together under the greatest of pressure. They consist of two sections , a top and a bottom , separated in the middle by a copper cross-member. All together , this makes the bullet very strong , and ready to take on the biggest animals.

Winchester Failsafe
 Using the same principle of the Barnes-X bullet , the failsafe is made from a homogeneous copper alloy. However the failsafe has been modified from the X-bullet. The base of the failsafe has been hollowed out , and a cylinder of steel has been inserted to reinforce the bullet base. Lead was then fitted in this cylinder to make the bullet heavier , which in turn decreases the length of the bullet , which can be a problem with the barnes-X. All in all the failsafe is an excellent bullet , than expands perfectly , and retains close to 100% of its weight , making it a good choice for Australian game.

Click to expand...
 
I read somewhere back in April that there was a NY church (Trinity?) that was threatening Wally-World with a lawsuit if they didn't stop selling guns of all kinds. Not sure how that turned out or whether it was related to WW's current actions ...
 
Those churches do have that right. But I doubt that their attacks will amount to much but defense cost to WalMart as until the Constitution gets changed WalMart can sell what ever the people are willing to pay for and that includes the guns.
 
I suppose that's true, but Trinity owns 14 acres of prime real estate in Manhattan worth hundreds of millions and they have a huge membership, so they're not exactly a tiny fly in the ointment either.
 
BobF said:
Those churches do have that right. But I doubt that their attacks will amount to much but defense cost to WalMart as until the Constitution gets changed WalMart can sell what ever the people are willing to pay for and that includes the guns.
Click to expand...
I understand that under the Constitution any citizen has the right to own a gun but where does it say that anyone can sell them?

Just a thought. If I, as a non citizen want to buy a gun in the US and take it with me while I tour the country by car and bus, can I buy one legally?
I would want it for self defence, of course.
 
Warrigal, that sounds like a attorney type question. I don't think so if you are not a citizen or have a US address that the police can check on. Ask an attorney.

You don't need a gun to travel and tour in the US. Where did you come up with that idea? Gun danger in the US seems to be in business districts from the hands of unregistered guns owners. For the millions of registered guns in the US there is not much trouble at all. I would have to look up the stats about the use of guns in the US. I suspect that many killings are happening with unregistered guns.
 
Have you seen the Aussie movie Wolf Creek ?

It is actually based on a real murderer who hunted people in northern outback Australia.
The lonely roads are not necessarily safer than the urban ones.

I might need a gun in Arizona unless you can assure me otherwise.
If I need one for self defence, why couldn't I have one?

Perhaps I could bring my own gun with me?
Otherwise, why is my safety less important than that of a US citizen?

Just playing the Devil's Advocate for the sake of argument.
Humour me.
 
SifuPhil said:
I read somewhere back in April that there was a NY church (Trinity?) that was threatening Wally-World with a lawsuit if they didn't stop selling guns of all kinds. Not sure how that turned out or whether it was related to WW's current actions ...
Click to expand...

they were trounced by Walmart, even in the state of NY. That had to hurt.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
I understand that under the Constitution any citizen has the right to own a gun but where does it say that anyone can sell them?

Just a thought. If I, as a non citizen want to buy a gun in the US and take it with me while I tour the country by car and bus, can I buy one legally?
I would want it for self defence, of course.
Click to expand...

it depends on the stste. The law actually is that anyone can make a gun, it's the transfer that is the problem. All manufactured guns are on file with BATF and when transferred , to buyers , back ground checks are made at both the federal and local level.

Anyone with a CNC milling machine can set the machine up and not finish the receiver. You can go in pay, push the button have the machine finish, and at this time it needs no registration numbers. It doesn't exist. God what a great country.
 
BobF said:
Warrigal, that sounds like a attorney type question. I don't think so if you are not a citizen or have a US address that the police can check on. Ask an attorney.

You don't need a gun to travel and tour in the US. Where did you come up with that idea? Gun danger in the US seems to be in business districts from the hands of unregistered guns owners. For the millions of registered guns in the US there is not much trouble at all. I would have to look up the stats about the use of guns in the US. I suspect that many killings are happening with unregistered guns.
Click to expand...

the guns are registered they were stolen. Most of the killings mass ones in particular were done by the registrants themselves which is a supporting arguement that gun laws don't stop killings
 
Dame Warrigal said:
Have you seen the Aussie movie Wolf Creek ?

It is actually based on a real murderer who hunted people in northern outback Australia.
The lonely roads are not necessarily safer than the urban ones.

I might need a gun in Arizona unless you can assure me otherwise.
If I need one for self defence, why couldn't I have one?

Perhaps I could bring my own gun with me?
Otherwise, why is my safety less important than that of a US citizen?

Just playing the Devil's Advocate for the sake of argument.
Humour me.
Click to expand...

you could in Arizona but don't try it in an eastern democratic state.
 
Interesting case. Trinity Church was a shareholder in Walmart and was not threatening a lawsuit. Rather, as shareholders they were seeking to have "the board to oversee the sale of “products that especially endanger public safety and well-being, risk impairing the company’s reputation, or offend the family and community values integral to the company’s brand,” as the document first filed with the Security and Exchange Commission last year read." They had previously "submitted its shareholder proposal in December 2013 for inclusion in the Walmart’s 2014 proxy materials."

Walmart countered by "arguing to the Securities and Exchange Commission that Trinity’s proposal would interfere with the company’s day-to-day operations. The SEC sided with Walmart, issuing a no-action letter permitting the retailer to exclude the church’s submission from its 2014 annual filings."

So, no lawsuit but a ruling from the Security and Exchange Commission.
Interesting though that Walmart has reconsidered its assault weapons sales.
They might be worried about personal liability suits on board members.

I guess the next step open to the church would be to divest its investments in Walmart.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoc...art-beats-out-church-in-court-over-gun-sales/
 
Dame Warrigal said:
I understand that under the Constitution any citizen has the right to own a gun but where does it say that anyone can sell them?

Just a thought. If I, as a non citizen want to buy a gun in the US and take it with me while I tour the country by car and bus, can I buy one legally?
I would want it for self defence, of course.
Click to expand...

Gun laws vary widely from one state to another. You can buy a gun legally in most venues, but many jurisdictions have specific rules regarding the transport of weapons. However, carrying or transporting a loaded weapon is regulated closely in most areas. In California(for example) a person faces the following constraints(just one of many penal code sections) on carrying a loaded firearm:

Per PENAL CODE
SECTION 25850
25850. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when the
person carries a loaded firearm on the person or in a vehicle while
in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city
or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area
of unincorporated territory.
(b) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for
the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized
to examine any firearm carried by anyone on the person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory.
Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to
this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of
this section.
(c) Carrying a loaded firearm in violation of this section is
punishable, as follows:
(1) Where the person previously has been convicted of any felony,
or of any crime made punishable by a provision listed in Section
16580, as a felony.
(2) Where the firearm is stolen and the person knew or had
reasonable cause to believe that it was stolen, as a felony.
(3) Where the person is an active participant in a criminal street
gang, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 186.22, under the
Street Terrorism Enforcement and Prevention Act (Chapter 11
(commencing with Section 186.20) of Title 7 of Part 1), as a felony.
(4) Where the person is not in lawful possession of the firearm,
or is within a class of persons prohibited from possessing or
acquiring a firearm pursuant to Chapter 2 (commencing with Section
29800) or Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 29900) of Division 9 of
this title, or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions
Code, as a felony.
(5) Where the person has been convicted of a crime against a
person or property, or of a narcotics or dangerous drug violation, by
imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170, or by
imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not
to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment
and fine.
(6) Where the person is not listed with the Department of Justice
pursuant to Section 11106 as the registered owner of the handgun, by
imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170, or by
imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, or by a fine
not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or both that fine and
imprisonment.
(7) In all cases other than those specified in paragraphs (1) to
(6), inclusive, as a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a
county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(d) (1) Every person convicted under this section who has
previously been convicted of an offense enumerated in Section 23515,
or of any crime made punishable under a provision listed in Section
16580, shall serve a term of at least three months in a county jail,
or, if granted probation or if the execution or imposition of
sentence is suspended, it shall be a condition thereof that the
person be imprisoned for a period of at least three months.
(2) The court shall apply the three-month minimum sentence except
in unusual cases where the interests of justice would best be served
by granting probation or suspending the imposition or execution of
sentence without the minimum imprisonment required in this section or
by granting probation or suspending the imposition or execution of
sentence with conditions other than those set forth in this section,
in which case, the court shall specify on the record and shall enter
on the minutes the circumstances indicating that the interests of
justice would best be served by that disposition.
(e) A violation of this section that is punished by imprisonment
in a county jail not exceeding one year shall not constitute a
conviction of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding
one year for the purposes of determining federal firearms
eligibility under Section 922(g)(1) of Title 18 of the United States
Code.
(f) Nothing in this section, or in Article 3 (commencing with
Section 25900) or Article 4 (commencing with Section 26000), shall
preclude prosecution under Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29800)
or Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 29900) of Division 9 of this
title, Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, or
any other law with a greater penalty than this section.
(g) Notwithstanding paragraphs (2) and (3) of subdivision (a) of
Section 836, a peace officer may make an arrest without a warrant:
(1) When the person arrested has violated this section, although
not in the officer's presence.
(2) Whenever the officer has reasonable cause to believe that the
person to be arrested has violated this section, whether or not this
section has, in fact, been violated.
(h) A peace officer may arrest a person for a violation of
paragraph (6) of subdivision (c), if the peace officer has probable
cause to believe that the person is carrying a handgun in violation
of this section and that person is not listed with the Department of
Justice pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section 11106
as the registered owner of that handgun.
Click to expand...


The legal requirements are only meaningful to law abiding citizens that are also of sound mind.....
 
If you delve into the trinity case further you will find it was very much about handguns sales. The were simply out maneuvered by some of the best attorneys in the U.S. It was a question of how angry can you afford to be. Walmart is making no political statement and not fearing liability from stockholders, U.S. Corp. are not set up that way.

Interstate transport depends on state laws somewhat. Interesting the fed government stepped in to stop outrageous laws such as cal, new jersey and New York.,blocking their laws if certain conditions are met, unloaded in the trunk etc. This very law is used by the anti gun group reasoning that it is a loophole that allows the flow of guns into these states without registration from adjacent states which are less restrictive. This is a very big issue. The anti gun folks forget that only law abiding citizens follow the law as Thomas points out above.
New Jersey lost a large suit 10 mil as I recall by arresting a lic. Concealed carry guy denying him of due process last year. I expect cal. Will be the next.
 
Again you and the media have used the term assault incorrectly, you nor anyone else can define assault type weapon.
 
Well, I haven't a clue about different kinds of rifles so I simply repeat what I have read.
I assume an assault rifle is one that is intended to only kill people, not elephants.
Otherwise I would call it an elephant gun.
 
I propose gun safety be taught at a grade school level as a required course. Anti gunners not allowing their children to attend would be disciplined with butterfly wippings. Also they would be registered and an instantaneous national data base would be implemented requiring their registration.
Most elephants are killed by native poachers who use what you call assault rifles from the 80s CETMEs HK91s and full metal jacket military rounds 308 Rds which is a military "human" bullet not elephant rifles.
In the U.S. The BATF defines the names of guns. Under the media definition a full automatic UZI would not be an assault rifle. Surely you can see the oxymoron.
 

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