What Do Real Muslims Believe?

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Nathan said:
Thanks, but I'm not going to play the patsy, why don't you go search google and present evidence to support your position? I'm not seeking an apology or retraction from you, but I am standing by my assertion that your argument that Muslims are more likely to commit atrocities is purely infantile BS.
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Perhaps you were living off grid and have never heard of 9/11 ?
 

senior chef said:
Perhaps you were living off grid and have never heard of 9/11 ?
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So, just for the record: are you saying that if one were to have heard of 9/11 then it would logically follow that one would believe that Muslims are more prone to violence than Christians?

Really? This is such a short circuit of intellect, I can barely imagine we're having this conversation.
 
senior chef said:
Obviously, the Nazi's did far, far worse. However that was not Christianity based. It was based entirely on the mad ravings of the National Socialist Party.
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Hitler and the Catholic church - Bing images

No different from what the church did to Jews and to Native Americans at the time of Columbus. I could also give a reference to Protestants and slavery but you get the picture.
 

Of course we have all heard of 9/11.
Have you looked further back in time to the Blitz and the carpet bombing of Germany?

What do they have in common? Both were more about waging war than anything that is integral to any religion.

9/11 was an attack on the USA, not on christianity. It was political and an example of modern guerilla warfare. A dozen or so men armed with box cutters succeeded in killing thousands.

The strategy was to attack the major symbols of western power - Twin Towers, financial power - Pentagon, military might - Washington, political power. It was terrorism, pure and simple and it immediately drove millions crazy. It also put muslims everywhere in danger of retaliation. This was not an act supported by the majority of muslims in the world but it was cheered by those people who considered US and her allies to be their enemy.
 
Alligatorob said:
I don't agree with what he says, not on this topic anyway, and have often tried to respond.

However in my experience he does represent what a lot of people believe. And he is an articulate intelligent person. So much as I may disagree with him I read his posts and have learned from him.
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That's good Alligatorob, hope you continue to gain more knowledge from him :)
 
Quite frankly, I am shocked to my very core that so many here on SF have their heads buried deeply in the sand. The majority of us, here on SF, are U.S. citizens, yet many openly act as apologists for Muslim atrocities. I have no doubt that if they thought they could get away with it, they'd deny 9/11 ever happened.
Good grief, much of it sounds like something written by Al Jezeera.
 
senior chef said:
Quite frankly, I am shocked to my very core that so many here on SF have their heads buried deeply in the sand. The majority of us, here on SF, are U.S. citizens, yet many openly act as apologists for Muslim atrocities. I have no doubt that if they thought they could get away with it, they'd deny 9/11 ever happened.
Good grief, much of it sounds like something written by Al Jezeera.
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So, disagreeing with senior chef earns a designation of "heads buried deeply in the sand"? It appears that you are operating purely on emotional knee-jerk, and have no intellectual resources in play whatsoever. C'mon man, you can do so much better!
 
senior chef said:
Quite frankly, I am shocked to my very core that so many here on SF have their heads buried deeply in the sand. The majority of us, here on SF, are U.S. citizens, yet many openly act as apologists for Muslim atrocities. I have no doubt that if they thought they could get away with it, they'd deny 9/11 ever happened.
Good grief, much of it sounds like something written by Al Jezeera.
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I think you misunderstand what a lot of folks are saying. I don't see apologists for atrocities, only people who are concerned with labeling them as "Muslim". I think doing that makes it harder for us to understand the root causes and what should best be done about them. We also risk alienating the vast majority of Muslims who are not terrorists, many of whom are our allies, or potential allies in fighting terrorism.

To lump the Taliban or al-Qaeda with the rest of Islam is akin to lumping the likes of David Koresh, Jim Jones, or the KKK with Christianity. The KKK claims to be a "Christian" organization but we don't talk about "Christian lynchings".
 
Alligatorob said:
I think you misunderstand what a lot of folks are saying. I don't see apologists for atrocities, only people who are concerned with labeling them as "Muslim". I think doing that makes it harder for us to understand the root causes and what should best be done about them. We also risk alienating the vast majority of Muslims who are not terrorists, many of whom are our allies, or potential allies in fighting terrorism.

To lump the Taliban or al-Qaeda with the rest of Islam is akin to lumping the likes of David Koresh, Jim Jones, or the KKK with Christianity. The KKK claims to be a "Christian" organization but we don't talk about "Christian lynchings".
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I don't know, man. I just don't understand how people, especially Americans, could think like that.
They remind me of that wacko Willie Nelson and his bizarre ideas re; 9/11 (Can't talk about politics, so I best let that drop)

Re; the vast majority of Muslims ? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall the so-called "peaceful" majority of Muslims rising up to help find the terrorists who attacked us on 9/11

Seriously, what am I supposed to call those who have sworn to kill as many Americans as they can ?
The people who attacked us on 9/11 were not Buddhists. Not Christians. Not Jews. Not Eskimos. They were Muslims. Perhaps it would satisfy some if I referred to those who want to destroy America and to drive all Israeli's into the sea as 'those misguided, naughty people '?
 
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senior chef said:
Quite frankly, I am shocked to my very core that so many here on SF have their heads buried deeply in the sand. The majority of us, here on SF, are U.S. citizens, yet many openly act as apologists for Muslim atrocities. I have no doubt that if they thought they could get away with it, they'd deny 9/11 ever happened.
Good grief, much of it sounds like something written by Al Jezeera.
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I don't know any Muslims who have committed atrocities.
 
Since the title of this thread is, "What do real Muslims believe ?" I assume that includes all aspects of Islam.
For a frightening view into Islamic beliefs, watch the true story movie, "Not without my daughter" , starring Sally Fields. (Currently on Amazon Prime for rent)
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senior chef said:
It is probable that none of the passengers on those 4 hijacked airliners did either. That is, until it was too late.
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Of course they didn't. If they had known they would not have boarded the planes. Terrorists don't advertise their plans in advance. That doesn't mean that all or most Muslims are terrorists or radicalized. Terrorists don't have to be a significant percentage of a population to be very dangerous people. It is not our job to identify them, but if it were mine, I'd do it to the best of my ability (which, hopefully, would be light years ahead of my ability to do it now).
 
Alligatorob said:
I think you misunderstand what a lot of folks are saying. I don't see apologists for atrocities, only people who are concerned with labeling them as "Muslim". I think doing that makes it harder for us to understand the root causes and what should best be done about them. We also risk alienating the vast majority of Muslims who are not terrorists, many of whom are our allies, or potential allies in fighting terrorism.

To lump the Taliban or al-Qaeda with the rest of Islam is akin to lumping the likes of David Koresh, Jim Jones, or the KKK with Christianity. The KKK claims to be a "Christian" organization but we don't talk about "Christian lynchings".
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Not quite the right analogy. Fundamentalist Islam has taken over whole nations and set them against the West. Look at Iran, Iraq under Saddam, Libya under Qaddafi. Cults like the ones you mentioned are outliers. Afghanistan pre-9-11 provided safe haven to terrorists as a matter of national policy. The KKK is a decrepit organization with about 3000 members nationwide, and the last lynching in the US was forty years ago.

I don't fully agree with Senior Chef but it's foolish to ignore the problems created by fundamentalist Islam, or to draw bogus parallels with criminal acts performed by "Christians."
 
WheatenLover said:
Of course they didn't. If they had known they would not have boarded the planes. Terrorists don't advertise their plans in advance. That doesn't mean that all or most Muslims are terrorists or radicalized. Terrorists don't have to be a significant percentage of a population to be very dangerous people. It is not our job to identify them, but if it were mine, I'd do it to the best of my ability (which, hopefully, would be light years ahead of my ability to do it now).
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I'm not at all clear on what your point is.

When it comes to my personal safety, I am pro-active. Whenever I am able to identify Muslims around me, I exit the area. When I was still traveling, and I had a plane ticket, and if I spotted a Muslim boarding that same flight, I notified the stewardess and told her I refused to fly on the same flight. It only happened once, but I was given a ticket on the next flight.
 
JimBob1952 said:
Fundamentalist Islam has taken over whole nations and set them against the West. Look at Iran, Iraq under Saddam, Libya under Qaddafi. Cults like the ones you mentioned are outliers. Afghanistan pre-9-11 provided safe haven to terrorists as a matter of national policy.
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You are right about the counties that have been taken over by extremists and conducting state sponsored terrorism, big problem. And a number of those active now are Muslim countries. My point was that we offend a lot of non-problem Muslims when we use terms like "Muslim terrorists". It also oversimplifies and misleads on the problem. That does us no good.

All states that sponsor terrorism today are not Muslim, places like North Korea, and even Russia.
JimBob1952 said:
The KKK is a decrepit organization with about 3000 members nationwide, and the last lynching in the US was forty years ago.
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Yes, fortunately today's KKK is much different from what it once was, and we are a better country for it. I was thinking more of the historic KKK, which 100 years ago had millions of members, and was probably involved in thousands of lynchings.
 
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feywon said:
This is the last i'm going to post on this thread:

This thread was an opportunity for those of you who have never actually known any Muslims to learn something--you could have asked questions of a practicing member of the faith why she converted, or about her daily habits that are related to her faith, about how her her faith informs who she is as a human being. Why when you acknowledge you don't know much about the faith (except what you read in biased biased media and social media commentaries) would you presume to make statements about that faith instead of inquiring of a member of it what they believe?


And can someone please explain me to how it is acceptable to judge all Muslims by an extremist group that as JimBob1952 said has more to do with politics (and patriarchal power i'd add) than religion but when anyone starts citing all the abuses and atrocities committed by Christians the response is always---'Oh, well that's not MY brand of Christianity' or 'That's not real or all Christians'. And while there are many subdivisions of Christianity (Not all believe in the Holy Trinity, tho they accept the importance of Jesus) there are subdivisions and differences in how various Muslims interpret and practice their faith. Why the double standard?

The Abrahamic Religions in general have always fostered Patriarchal dominance. The exceptions have been some of the words attributed to Jesus and some of Muhammed's writings. It says more about some followers of each faith than about the faith itself that way too many who claim those faiths ignore and/or distort the teachings of those they claim to 'worship'---but it really says nothing about those who choose to follow Christ and Muhammed's teachings more closely.

All faith's and philosophies get distorted overtime to suit the personal feelings and the purposes/agendas of those citing scriptures or philosophical treatises as their guide. i have heard people distort Buddhist and Hindu principles to suit their needs, but i certainly wouldn't judge all of either group by what those few do/say. i keep telling atheists that use the atrocities committed in the name of various faiths as reasons to not have any kind of spirituality that 'religion' itself also does a lot of good and the fault is not in the concepts of various faiths--but in how some people practice/apply/distort the concepts. That is to say--the less attractive qualities of human nature (greed,need for power/dominance over others) are the problem not the spirituality and religions in and of themselves.
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Brilliantly written my friend!! I couldn't have "said" it better myself! Your points are right on. I also noticed the hypocrisy in some of the replies. And of course (without naming names...but we know who), some of the comments are just ridiculous. But we have a saying....some people are "born not to know". I have been so busy that I'm still working my way through this thread but I did want to respond to you and thank you and others who get it...for your support.
@Pecos @Shalimar @Warrigal @JimBob1952
 
senior chef said:
I don't know, man. I just don't understand how people, especially Americans, could think like that.
They remind me of that wacko Willie Nelson and his bizarre ideas re; 9/11 (Can't talk about politics, so I best let that drop)

Re; the vast majority of Muslims ? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall the so-called "peaceful" majority of Muslims rising up to help find the terrorists who attacked us on 9/11

Seriously, what am I supposed to call those who have sworn to kill as many Americans as they can ?
The people who attacked us on 9/11 were not Buddhists. Not Christians. Not Jews. Not Eskimos. They were Muslims. Perhaps it would satisfy some if I referred to those who want to destroy America and to drive all Israeli's into the sea as 'those misguided, naughty people '?
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Us? Don’t you live in Mexico? Doesn’t that make you a ex-patriot?
 

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