hollydolly
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...but it was mere men who wrote about the experiences of heaven in the bible.. none of whom had been there...
What heaven's really like - by a top brain surgeon
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But those writings are believed to be inspired of God and are held as being infallibly true.
So I guess we have different perspectives. BTW No need to be personally somewhere in order to receive an accurate description of it.
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hollydolly
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see there's the point.. people who had never been to heaven who were in fact just scribes who copied down a story thousands of years old... are believed without question... yet a man who was able to eplain how his brain worked , and how it was affected and where he found himself in his vision of heaven is roundly being dibelieved...
it makes no sense.. perhaps he should begin his story with ''Once upon a time.. there was 3 wise men.. ''... ... maybe he'd be believed then
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Well, I definitely never accused your brain surgeon of lying about his having had a vision. If he says that he had a vision, then OK, he had a vision. However, I see absolutely no reason why I should allow his vision to nullify the biblical explanations.
I don't doubt that you're also sincere. So how do we resolve this? Arm wrestling?
No need! Each has a right to an opinion. My biblical posts are for those considering the Bible inspired of God and not to convince those who don't.
hollydolly
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All I'm saying is that if you believe the word of scribes from hundreds of years ago.. who never visited heaven and never claimed to ... then you have to believe the word of someone who says he has !
I am not trying to dissuade you otherwise. My posts are intended for believers.
That assumes an obligation that I don't consider binding. As said, I don't doubt that he had some vision. I simply choose not to consider it a true depiction of what Heaven is like based on my choosing to believe what the Bible tells me instead.
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papa tiger
Well-known Member
You ask for the truth. UR screwed.
Warrigal
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Not sure that Esther Zuckerman has any relevant qualifications to comment either for or against Eben Alexander.
Daily Beast https://www.thedailybeast.com/author/esther-zuckerman
Tish
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Fascinating!
George1959
Senior Member
I had the opportunity to read the first book "Proof of Heaven" in 2016. I was impressed, but not such impressed that I bought the book.
It seems that Alexander in "Map of Heaven" repeats much from his first book and adds stories of other people.
Thus I looked into the reviews of "Proof of Heaven".
Here is one negative review with solid arguments:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/review..._mwn_dprv_BRN44FA0HA9MY1FJS1RK&language=de-DE
And a positive review, which I find interesting too:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/review..._mwn_dprv_39SRXPB54KS6YQND48PG&language=de-DE
It seems that Alexander in "Map of Heaven" repeats much from his first book and adds stories of other people.
Thus I looked into the reviews of "Proof of Heaven".
Here is one negative review with solid arguments:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/review..._mwn_dprv_BRN44FA0HA9MY1FJS1RK&language=de-DE
And a positive review, which I find interesting too:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/review..._mwn_dprv_39SRXPB54KS6YQND48PG&language=de-DE
hollydolly
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good find George... None of us know whether this guy was telling the truth..I think he was... but everyone will have their own take on it.
However the critical review of your 2 links.. clearly didn't read the book .. fully otherwise he would know there was several mentions of no Brain activity..
I'm actually shocked at how many ''scientists' are visceral in their thoughts about this ... why would they be so upset at one man's view of ''heaven'' what does it matter to them ?.. methinks some people doth protest too much, and that makes me suspicious..
In my part of the U.S., the welcoming slogan for the state of West Virginia is “Almost Heaven.” I’ve been to West Virginia numerous times, and Heaven has apparently lowered its standards by a lot! No one rushes to buy a book likening the hereafter to West Virginia…
Personally, I think that purgatory must be a lot like the state of New Jersey, so I should be familiar with that…no wonder people talk about “going home!”
And wouldn’t it be a kick if the Afterlife has a big bureaucratic structure as depicted in Beetlejuice? I’d better get my number so as to begin waiting in line now…
Personally, I think that purgatory must be a lot like the state of New Jersey, so I should be familiar with that…no wonder people talk about “going home!”
And wouldn’t it be a kick if the Afterlife has a big bureaucratic structure as depicted in Beetlejuice? I’d better get my number so as to begin waiting in line now…
Mr. Ed
Be what you is not what you what you ain’t
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Perhaps heaven & hell are subjective to the individual who believes in such things. I try to keep an open mind but truthfully I don't know if there are such places dead people go to. As far as the Bible goes...I don't believe in that either.
rgp
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Agree here .
hollydolly
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I think that's possibly the real answer... however it doesn't explain his ''meet'' with his sister of whom he had never met nor seen an image of.. until 4 months after his ''dream''
stretch5881
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Thank you Holly.
Normally I don't read anything this long, but this time I did because my brother told me of similar visions after he was badly burned when he was 7. He is not religious, yet has no fear of dying.
I, myself, try to keep an open mind about things that can't be proved or disproved.
Normally I don't read anything this long, but this time I did because my brother told me of similar visions after he was badly burned when he was 7. He is not religious, yet has no fear of dying.
I, myself, try to keep an open mind about things that can't be proved or disproved.
Well, have you considered the possibility that there are entities who have a vested interest in promoting certain ideas and have the ability to impose those ideas on the human mind? My mother was harassed in that particular way at one point in her life. Jesus is described as having encountered such entities.
Atheist scientists feel obligated to lash out at anything that they deem supernatural-especially if it indicates the existence of some heavenly realm created by some god. One reason is that such persons have been traumatized by religion during their childhood and have developed a deep hatred of it.
hollydolly
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Possibly, or it could be that they hate the very idea that a 'layman' could possibly discover something HUGE before them... who knows ?
Very true. Also, atheism is pounded into their minds via the government's education system. So they gradually become veritable robots mindlessly supporting the concept of a Godless universe as an indisputable truth.Possibly, or it could be that they hate the very idea that a 'layman' could possibly discover something HUGE before them... who knows ?
George1959
Senior Member
This was what moved me most, since I had a twin sister, who died at three months.
That consciousness exists outside of the brain is certain in my opinion. Otherwise reincarnation wouldn't exist. But I know from a case in my family that it exists. The Dutch cardiologist Pim van Lommel tells in his book
Consciousness Beyond Life: The Science of the Near-Death Experience
the story of a woman who had no brain activity during a dangerous surgery for a brain aneurysma. Her eyes were covered also but she could exactly describe the instruments used for surgery and the staff.And there is another story of a NDE in which a man also met his dead sister he never knew.
That Christian scriptures are 2000 years old is no proof for their credibility. Buddhist writings are older, but I won't believe them without proof. The mentioned case of reincarnation which I do not want to tell, gave me credibility. This is what counts for me, of course not for everyone. But I am far away from wanting to convince other people that reincarnation exists.
Paco Dennis
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I read a book when in my teens that had a lot of people have a reading by a famous psychic. He almost always said that the person ( normal regular people ) was once someone super famous. like Stalin, or Picasso, or one of the 1000 other famous people of old. I thought hat was pretty weird. Then I studied it from a Buddhist perspective. It is taught by Buddhism and the transmigration of "soul" is controversial within Buddhism.
It doesn't matter to me. There is work to be done now. So whatever your background, or present reality, I can't wait around for "The answer". All this reincarnation is to bring us closer to being a true human being integrated with the universe.
It doesn't matter to me. There is work to be done now. So whatever your background, or present reality, I can't wait around for "The answer". All this reincarnation is to bring us closer to being a true human being integrated with the universe.