What our leaders are saying must be done about ISIS.....NOW!
- Thread starter Elyzabeth
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Denise1952
Well-known Member
How do you define "brutal beyond compare"? The Viet Cong (just for a little example) disemboweled children after they raped them.
Denise1952
Well-known Member
New one on me, countries wait for an invitation to help, now there's a good excuse to sit on you thumbs.
Debby
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- East coast of Canada
Hmmm, do you have a link to that? Because according to the UN, the destruction of their chemical weapons was completed in June. http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=48103#.VAXlHktRrlI
And if that tidbit of information that you mentioned comes from the US, I'd be totally inclined to doubt it entirely. (how's that for being committed to an idea
? 'totally, entirely)Denise1952
Well-known Member
I don't know about links to confirm, but common sense tells me anyone can get anything they want nowadays. All you need is the right connections.
Elyzabeth
Member
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- Bristol, England
I don't know about anyone else, but I would never believe just one source, on anything !
Warrigal
SF VIP
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- Sydney, Australia
Do you have an authoritative reference for that because it sounds like propaganda to me. I do remember hearing that they cut of the arms of children who had been vaccinated by American medical teams but I'm not even sure whether this is true either.
Bad things take place on both sides in any war.
Just found a link to a site that lists war crimes by country. There is a lot on Vietnam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:War_crimes_by_country
Warrigal
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- Sydney, Australia
I didn't say Wikipedia is authoritative but it is a jump off point for further looking.
What have you got? Happy to go from there.
What have you got? Happy to go from there.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
I've been digging around. No-one would suggest that the Viet Cong did not use terrorism on their own people.
This site is not particularly user friendly but it has some PDF documents on this subject.
http://www.vietnam.ttu.edu/virtualarchive/items.php?item=2390710003
There are many gruesome stories around about the ruthless Viet Cong. I'd just like to concentrate on the real ones. Historical truth is important. Everything else is propaganda.
This site is not particularly user friendly but it has some PDF documents on this subject.
http://www.vietnam.ttu.edu/virtualarchive/items.php?item=2390710003
There are many gruesome stories around about the ruthless Viet Cong. I'd just like to concentrate on the real ones. Historical truth is important. Everything else is propaganda.
Ina
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- Harris County, NE of Houston, Tx.
Warri, I well remember a picture of a little Vietnamese nude girl running screaming down a road with burns all over her. That was a wake up call for me.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
It was not the Viet Cong that caused her condition.
She was collateral damage from dropped napalm.
She was collateral damage from dropped napalm.
Ina
Well-known Member
- Location
- Harris County, NE of Houston, Tx.
I don't remember the details, but that picture stays in my mind when I think of what's happening in today's world. I guess I just wasn't really aware of the rest of the world at that time. But that vision started the opening of my eyes.
Debby
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- Location
- East coast of Canada
Does common sense also tell you to be suspicious of anything that comes out of the US government? Like maybe if chemical weapons were used, it was by the terrorists that the Americans have been arming. They have a vested interest in seeing that Assad looks bad don't they? And maybe if enough people believe it, then America will feel like it has the publics approval to start bombing the crap out of the country. Don't trust anybody when it comes to global affairs.
Debby
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- East coast of Canada
Would I believe the OPCW? Yes I would accept their report but I would also want to know did they have proof it was Assad that used the chemicals or are they simply acknowledging that 'someone' used chlorine gas and did the news media write it up as though they had said it was Assad? Big difference there.
The only reason I'm questioning it at all is because the American government has been in there working to support terrorists (including al Qaeda) and back in 1991, the Pentagon formulated a plan to destabilize the Middle East and Syria was one of five countries specifically named. And considering the past lies of the American government (WMD in Iraq for example) I'd be suspicious of any news regarding Syria and especially if it was news that made Assad look like the bogey-man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5q9PYy1NoA (General Wesley Clark talks about the destabilization of the ME)
Debby
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- East coast of Canada
But it can be a good place to start. But like someone else here said, look for multiple sources for news and I would add to that, don't bother with the mainstream media because you'll mostly get 'the approved' news.
Denise1952
Well-known Member
Yes Debby,
common sense tells me the world is becoming more corrupt all the time, and also, that there are horrible, immoral people everywhere, and there are also good, moral people everywhere. So the "news" is made up of all those people. I have never been much on putting my trust or faith in people, and I've not been disappointed that way.
What cracks me up the most about these "discussions" is how everyone knows so much. Who needs tv, or any news broadcast, you guys put it all here for us dummies so we can learn.
OPCW didn't accuse anybody; but it was used in a rebel-held town; they were trying to investigate.
that quote came directly from their website; believe what you will.
I know US has been helping the rebels for years; as I said before; your enemy's enemy is your friend.
that quote came directly from their website; believe what you will.
I know US has been helping the rebels for years; as I said before; your enemy's enemy is your friend.
Debby
Well-known Member
- Location
- East coast of Canada
Just one question, why are the terrorists in Syria being called 'rebels' but when they return to Iraq, they become 'terrorists' that are worse than al Qaeda? Does their label depend on who puts weapons/cash in their hands?
As for the chemical weapons, I'm glad to hear that the OPCW isn't just making a blanket statement that Assad did it and particularly when they have no real proof. I've seen enough instances where the US has levelled accusations like that, without the benefit of real proof and the world simply accepts it and chaos ensues. If there is proof that Assad used chemical weapons, than fine, hold him responsible and do what's necessary to change that situation. But we, and I include myself in this, need to always be careful which words we use or choose no to use. It's so easy to skew truth just by picking the 'wrong' word or even leaving out a word.
Then there's this. In 1991, the US decided to destabilize the Middle East. It's a known fact according to General Wesley Clark. And everything we know about Assad comes from governments (who have their own agendas) and via mainstream media who are too often guilty of not providing accurate information in their pursuit of being invited on the government plane or getting a seat at another 'rubber chicken dinner'. Considering that the turnout for the last Syrian election, even in the middle of war, was incredible and Assad was voted back in by a landslide (I think, correct me if I'm wrong on that), would it not be sensible for us all to ask, why the discrepancy between what we've been told about Assad and how that population feels about him? Maybe, just maybe the 'horror stories' are actually marketing with a view to make it acceptable to blow the country up to drive him out and replace him with somebody that will be beholden to the US.
I'm sorry, I know there are lots of American people here and I apologize for any hurt feelings that my thoughts may cause, but seriously, over the past couple years of learning to look behind the simplistic reasons/solutions/excuses/stories that we hear on tv news, for the other side of the story, I've realized that healthy skepticism and suspicion is absolutely necessary if you're talking about governments or the economy. Even my own government is guilty of the kind of subterfuge and corruption that I'm talking about and I don't trust them either.
Governments in my opinion, pay lip service to their 'concern for the voters' but their real focus is personal aggrandizement, money, accolades and their families futures. The rest of us better watch for scraps to fall off the table.
Debby
Well-known Member
- Location
- East coast of Canada
I'm sorry if I've offended you by my question about using common sense when it comes government pronouncements. Never meant to. And I never called you a dummy either. But I was under the impression that this was an ongoing discussion where each of us are allowed to share the information that we've all individually come across as we cruise the Internet. Am I wrong about that?
The questions that arise over Assad's re-election was that a lot of the country couldn't vote; in rebel hands.
And I would question your assumption that rebels in Syria become terrorists in Iraq.
IMO, there are so many different groups in Syria, often separate from each other physically; whereas the group that has spilled out into Iraq appears to be one group, Isil; who do not control all of Syria by any means.
Places come in and out of the news don't they? Now the Golan Heights are being fought over by yet another 'rebel' group; Appello.....who knows; Damascus suburbs; who knows, and Iraq, again, a fluid situation in terms of territory, but, it appears, one group.
The Turks seem to vary too.....
Basically, one big big mess.
And I would question your assumption that rebels in Syria become terrorists in Iraq.
IMO, there are so many different groups in Syria, often separate from each other physically; whereas the group that has spilled out into Iraq appears to be one group, Isil; who do not control all of Syria by any means.
Places come in and out of the news don't they? Now the Golan Heights are being fought over by yet another 'rebel' group; Appello.....who knows; Damascus suburbs; who knows, and Iraq, again, a fluid situation in terms of territory, but, it appears, one group.
The Turks seem to vary too.....
Basically, one big big mess.
Denise1952
Well-known Member
I replied to you on the common sense issue Debby, but my mind wanders off so the rest really not directed at you, it's for all of us, and I do include myself. I think these discussions can be enlightening, for me anyway, since I don't watch news, and keep up on all things. There's two things that will get me riled and one is someone from other than the US (non-citizen) putting my country down. I am a citizen and I will bitch all I want, but don't be putting my country down until theirs is the perfect haven, with perfect people. The other thing is when we get into "personal" attacks on each other, yuck. I don't want to do that, and try not to. I am so not perfect.
I see the lack of unity being the world's, biggest problem. As long as we all have egos, that won't change though, imo
And there is a 3rd thing as well, stereotyping like using a term like, all you Americans, or all you this or that. I just need to chalk that up to bigotry, racism, and the biggy "ignorance".
I see the lack of unity being the world's, biggest problem. As long as we all have egos, that won't change though, imo
And there is a 3rd thing as well, stereotyping like using a term like, all you Americans, or all you this or that. I just need to chalk that up to bigotry, racism, and the biggy "ignorance".
Debby
Well-known Member
- Location
- East coast of Canada
Last year I watched a documentary called "Big Boys Gone Bananas". The director had previously made a documentary that simply showed how Dole Fruit company had been taken to court by it's field workers for spraying pesticides on them while they were working in the fields. The employees won and Dole had to pay.
When the director was going to release his film at a festival, Dole found out about it and proceeded to impede his work from going to the public via the film festival and then hired a PR firm to wreck his reputation. One of the things they did was send out a news release to news programs all across North America and they referred to 'the lies he told, his work of fiction, etc.
In the BBGB documentary, there was a clip of the TV show, Canada AM, and the two hosts proceeded to laugh and giggle about this liar, film maker who thought he could slander the Dole Fruit Company. In five minutes, they made him look like a total fool and scumbag. Problem is they didn't mention that Dole had been found guilty of knowingly poisoning the field workers. And when the film maker subsequently took Dole to court and sued them for libel, etc., they never mentioned at a later date, that the courts again found Dole guilty and made them pay the legal expenses and restitution for the film maker, nor have they ever apologized to the film maker for their snickering and support of the real bad guys. They got a press release from a scummy corporations PR firm, helped them try to wreck an honest mans reputation and never bothered to do any research into the story at any point.
From that point on, I began to have a different understanding of mainstream media and since then have seen more instances where we the public, would do well to exercise caution and suspicion when it comes to info that we're being fed.
Debby
Well-known Member
- Location
- East coast of Canada
I'm not making 'assumptions' but am only relaying information that is readily available on the web. Jordanian Intelligence, Reuters reports, Rand Paul, Global Research are a few of my sources.
http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2014/06/27/rand-paul-us-arming-isis-in-syria/
Senator Rand Paul refers to the US 'arming rebels/ISIS in Syria.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.ca/2014/08/staged-provocations-ahead-possible-us.html
"...Syrian forces have continued making gains across the country, routing NATO-backed terrorist forces and restoring order in cities and towns that have been ravaged by war for years. ISIS strongholds in the eastern Syrian city of Raqqa,..."
http://guardianlv.com/2014/06/isis-trained-by-us-government/
(According to Jordanian intelligence sources) Jordan has been an American training ground for Syrian terrorists and members of ISIS
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-is...ted-by-the-us-israel-and-saudi-arabia/5396171
This article makes reference to the Syrian terrorists being willing to give up claims to the Golan Heights (which Israel currently occupies!) in exchange for cash and military aid from Israel.
As for the re-election of Assad, the vote happened wherever Syrian refugees were, not just in a small area that Assad had control of. The interesting point to know too is that some European countries attempted to interfere with those refugees in their countries from registering their vote for the government of their choice. I believe France was one that banned Syrians from casting a ballot.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.ca/2014/05/ukraine-syria-elections-of-mass.html
'It was impossible for the Western media to cover up tens of thousands of Syrians around the world queuing up in impressive numbers to cast their votes'
PS, I only bolded my words to make them easier to read amongst the links.