Who is God the Father? Zeus, Jupiter, Thor, the great “I AM”, or the man in the moon

JimW: "I have made my personal choice as a non-believer and everyone else is free to make theirs." If only. The problem begins when the religious do not agree that everyone else is free to make theirs. i.e. the push for prayer in public schools and the anti-choice agenda. I won't bother to go into history where one could be tortured and die for not believing a certain way; that's history. My beef is with the present.
 

Pepper said:
JimW: "I have made my personal choice as a non-believer and everyone else is free to make theirs." If only. The problem begins when the religious do not agree that everyone else is free to make theirs. i.e. the push for prayer in public schools and the anti-choice agenda. I won't bother to go into history where one could be tortured and die for not believing a certain way; that's history. My beef is with the present.
Click to expand...

My comment was directed towards us as adults in a free country and the choice we have whether to believe in God or not. No one forces an adult in a free country whether or not to believe in God, we are free to make that choice on our own. I believe in the separation of church and state, but I think we're going way off topic with that.
 
Just responding to the quote I highlighted. Others don't believe in the free choice you adhere to, and certainly children don't have the choice yet, and a lifetime of brainwashing is a big hill to climb.
 

Who is God...God is the One who created us to have the ability to choose. He, more than anyone else wants their faith to be a personal choice. But He also wants his believers to vocalize and express their faith...even to go out into the world and let their light shine and love everyone with his love. That's when the problems begin :laugh:
 
You are right, Warrigal, and I apologize for the error. There is no book of Joseph, but several chapters of Genesis, starting with Chapter 37, tell the story of Joseph and his brothers, his captivity in Egypt, his success there working for the Pharoah, and his eventual forgiveness of the brothers who tried to kill him. It's a wonderful story, with no good guys and bad guys, just a lovely fable (and who knows, maybe it's true?) about human traits in all their complexity.

For a fun look at this story, listen to the wonderful rock production of Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. It's moving, funny, wonderful entertainment, and sticks pretty closely to the version in the Bible. I think it's written by the same people who wrote Jesus Christ, Superstar. Here's the whole production, starring Donny Osmond and Maria Friedman, unfortunately with ads, but you can click past them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnPClWznEY4
 
Lara said:
Who is God...God is the One who created us to have the ability to choose. He, more than anyone else wants their faith to be a personal choice. But He also wants his believers to vocalize and express their faith...even to go out into the world and let their light shine and love everyone with his love. That's when the problems begin :laugh:
Click to expand...

Hey now, you just keep all those shiny lights and all that love to yourself or we're gonna have problems. j/k :laugh:
 
I think I have answered the miracle thing question in this post and others. Honestly, I think we are surrounded by miracles every day, but we have to open our eyes and see them.
 
I googled the word "miracle" and several very different definitions popped up:

noun
noun: miracle; plural noun: miracles
​

  • a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency.
    "the miracle of rising from the grave"
    synonyms:supernatural phenomenon, mystery, prodigy, sign "his first miracle was to turn water into wine"




    • a highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences.
      "it was a miracle that more people hadn't been killed or injured"


    • an amazing product or achievement, or an outstanding example of something.
      "a machine which was a miracle of design"
      synonyms:wonder, marvel, sensation, phenomenon, astonishing feat, amazing achievement "Germany's economic miracle"








So... the word can mean pretty much whatever you want it to mean. The first definition is meaningless to me; the fact that something is not explicable to us at this moment in time does not provide any proof of "a divine agency."
It just means we do not yet have an explanation for it. Before the time of Columbus, the fact that sailors did not fall off the edge of the flat earth would have been considered a miracle.

The second and third definitions really mean that a miracle is something wonderful and amazing, no problem there.
 
CeeCee said:
Lara, I was hoping you’d answer Knight’s question...that’s where I get hung up.

I can believe in a creator or a force but I also believe in the Big Bang and evolution.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what question of Knight's you're referring to that I haven't already addressed. Let me know.

Regarding your other statement, the problem with the Big Bang theory is that creating something out of chaos (who created the chaos? the big bang? the mud puddle? the scientific elements to make it all happen?) makes a lot less sense than God's creation story. There needs to be an intelligent designer far greater than us to come up with the complexities that make up our world and our existence.

I believe in evolution within species for adaptation to environments but not evolution that creates a whole other species completely...like from chimpanzee to man. I agree the DNA is close but close is not 100%. Believing in God is based on faith. All I've personally read and experienced results in a 100% assurance for me though. And God has given me plenty of experiences. That's just me exercising my God given ability to choose. I'm not debating it or pushing it.

And who created LOVE? Did the Big Bang create love?
 
Knight said:
I'm not a man that has studied the bible I'm recalling popular storys that I heard when I went to sunday school.


The recent posts by Sunny & Warrigal seem to point to religious leaders looking more closely to the storys in the bible as ways to explain what wasn't know about the origin of mankind. Questioning the storys makes sense to me. Unlike modern day documentation with the ability to provide visual proof of events, relying on what is written is open to be questioned.


The bible as a referance puts the earth & galaxy at 6000 years, science puts it at 3 &1/2 billion plus. Made in his Image without a visual other than what man has written how is it known the allued to sentient being is male? Made in his Image Neanderthals & Cro-Magnons are a fact with Neanderthals pre dating Cro-Magnons. The story that Adam & Eve are the origin doesn't explain the 4 DNA bases & possibly 8 as science uncovers more. Noah and the animals saved yet there are https://themysteriousworld.com/animals-found-only-in-madagascar/.


Attributing only good to God.
God is recorded in the Bible as having personally killed a large number of people.[note 1] While the majority of the divine assassinations certainly took place during God's time as the notoriously vengeful deity in the Old Testament, a few instances are also recorded in the (just slightly) more peaceful New Testament. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_God_personally_killing_people


If there is a God that killed then why not kill Satan. That should remove the evil that is attributed to Satan.


Questioning IMO isn't wrong, not questioning is.
Click to expand...

Lara, I was talking about this post....maybe it wasn’t a question but how does the Bible reply to what Knight posted.
 
Knight asked, "If there is a God that killed then why not kill Satan. That should remove the evil."
I've answered that somewhere (maybe before Knight's post).

The more powerful God could certainly stop Satan but God's perfect plan allows Satan's evil temptations, pain, and suffering for two reasons:

1. Temptations: God did not want to create robots but rather Humans and therefore gave us the ability to choose between good & evil, between right & wrong, and to choose to believe in him and his Word (the Bible) or not...despite temptation.

2. Pain & Suffering: It's all about teaching, polishing our rough edges, and preparing us for eternal life in God's Kingdom.
God uses suffering to teach us a myriad of things such as empathy (you can't have empathy without ever having experienced pain). He want's us to love others by using empathy. He wants us to develop patience, kindness, self-control, etc There are 100+ reasons in the Bible why good people suffer....none for punishment.

Knight also mentioned time of Creation. I don't really care how long ago scientists think the earth was created. God had a different reference to "time" but I'll come back and explain. I've got a man here to fix my garage door lol.

I explained in an earlier post about DNA changes. I'll have to go find it.

Regarding "killing people", I also explained that in an earlier post. That was in the Old Testament before Jesus came in the NT to take the punishment for Man's sins.




 
Aneeda72 said:
Knight, I did mention there were other races at the time of Adam and Eve, even the Bible makes this clear. Thus the discussion about the gods and not just one in particular. Although, most have settled on one in this discussion.
Click to expand...
I don't have a bible let alone different versions. I had some time this morning so I Googled different races in the bible & found this.

Bible Verses About Different Races
Bible verses related to Different Races from the King James Version (KJV) by Relevance - Sort By Book Order

Galatians 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Acts 10:35 - But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Deuteronomy 7:3-4 - Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. (Read More...)

Revelation 7:9-10 - After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; (Read More...)

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Different-Races/

I interpret all those to represent what was taking place once history was being recorded. How does describing races after the supposed creation of mankind being Adam & then Eve explain the different DNA?

I could be wrong but I think Deuteronomy 7:4 pretty along with a lot of other references much sets the tone for fear based belief.
Deuteronomy 7:4 King James Version (KJV)
For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.

I think there could have been an unpaid someone that walked around trying to get people to be at peace with each other. Unfortunately that has changed. Massive money making church organizations fill the need for people calm their fear of not getting into heaven.
 
Lara said:
[SUB]Believers acknowledge that God is the almighty, all powerful, creator of heaven and earth so anything is possible with God at any time in history and He can make alterations to his original creation without compromising the base. The Bible doesn't give the origins of the different races or skin color from one couple. [/SUB][SUB]But there's only one race and that's the Human Race.
[/SUB][SUB]
God confused languages at the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:1-9) causing humanity to segregate linguistically.[/SUB][SUB] [/SUB][SUB]It's possible God made genetic changes so humanity could adapt and survive in their different environments thus creating racial differences depending on where they settled.
[/SUB][SUB][/SUB][SUB]
But, like I said, the Bible doesn't say there was a link between the confusion of language and racial diversity.[/SUB][SUB] [/SUB][SUB]It makes sense though that specific groups split due to same language so that the gene pool then shrank and closer inbreeding occurred causing certain features to change. These changes were all in their genetic code already. As the gene pool got smaller over generations then one language family all had similar features.[/SUB]

It's also possible that Adam & Eve had the genes to produce various skin colors, just like mixed race colors produce children of various colors. Obviously God wanted humanity to be diverse. So, we are all the same race, the human race, created by God, for the same purpose...to believe in him, love him, trust him, and obey him and to love one another.
Click to expand...
Regarding how our "different races" and genetic code changed since Adam & Eve from my post #95
 
Last edited:
fmdog44 said:
I am always puzzled as to the logic behind referencing the bible as a source of factual information when it is nothing more than pages of gossip rumors and here say.
Click to expand...

What people believe to be true is considered fact for them without evidence or based on rumors they wish to believe. No politics allowed, I know, but you can see examples of this in present day society.
 
Pepper said:
What people believe to be true is considered fact for them without evidence or based on rumors they wish to believe. No politics allowed, I know, but you can see examples of this in present day society.
Click to expand...

In FACT, Paul said (Heb. 11:1): Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

That may be fine in one circumstance only, but ignorant for everything else. Society's problems arise in using that standard for everyday logic.
 
Well, sunny, you can deny that miracles exist, according to the first definition, but you can’t prove that they don’t exist.

As for sailors falling off the edge of the earth, they can, after all, fall off the edge of a wave and drown, or break their necks, or disappear into the ocean forever so it might as well be the edge of the earth. All things are possible :).
 
Aneeda, now really. Falling off the edge of a wave and drowning means the same thing to you as falling off the edge of the earth?! ;)

And about the fact that somebody can tell a big whopper of a lie, and I can't prove that that lie ISN'T true, what a leap of logic. The burden of proof is always on the person who makes a statement that
something is true... not on all the people listening to that statement and going, "Huh?"

OK, I believe in the Tooth Fairy. It says she is real in a book somewhere. So now, go ahead and prove that she does not exist.

(Although maybe you believe that she does?) After all, she left a shiny new quarter under your pillow when you were 6.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top