Who is God the Father? Zeus, Jupiter, Thor, the great “I AM”, or the man in the moon

I went to your post #95 & have more questions.


Lara said:
Believers acknowledge that God is the almighty, all powerful, creator of heaven and earth so anything is possible with God at any time in history and He can make alterations to his original creation without compromising the base. The Bible doesn't give the origins of the different races or skin color from one couple. But there's only one race and that's the Human Race.
---------------------------------------------
One Race? If that is true there is only one race then why is there a distinction between
Homo sapiens & Homo sapiens sapiens.


Color?
Song of Solomon 1:5
I am very dark, but lovely, O daughters of Jerusalem, like the tents of Kedar, like the curtains of Solomon.
Jeremiah 13:23
Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then also you can do good who are accustomed to do evil.
1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”


Seems pretty obvious color is mentioned and physical differences.
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God confused languages at the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:1-9) causing humanity to segregate linguistically. It's possible God made genetic changes so humanity could adapt and survive in their different environments thus creating racial differences depending on where they settled.
But, like I said, the Bible doesn't say there was a link between the confusion of language and racial diversity. It makes sense though that specific groups split due to same language so that the gene pool then shrank and closer inbreeding occurred causing certain features to change. These changes were all in their genetic code already. As the gene pool got smaller over generations then one language family all had similar features.
_____________________________________________________________________________
From Genesis 11:1-9
But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”


Who are the us that are going down? And why didn't the confusion continue?


When looking up Sumer the story that language was confused by God IMO loses credibility. A nice story but falls short due to language variety thousands of years before Babel. Don't confuse Sumer with summer.
_________________________________________________________________________


It's also possible that Adam & Eve had the genes to produce various skin colors, just like mixed race colors produce children of various colors. Obviously God wanted humanity to be diverse. So, we are all the same race, the human race, created by God, for the same purpose...to believe in him, love him, trust him, and obey him and to love one another.
Click to expand...


As you can see I'm asking questions trying to understand blind faith & using the bible as the source of faith. The possibility you suggest about Adam & Eve should disappear since the story of Noah and his family of one genetic strain & not being described as diverse and the sole survivors of a flood that wiped out those that angered "GOD". <----------- How is that possible?


I hope your garage door was repaired right and didn't cost a lot.
 

Knight said:
As you can see I'm asking questions trying to understand blind faith & using the bible as the source of faith. The possibility you suggest about Adam & Eve should disappear since the story of Noah and his family of one genetic strain & not being described as diverse and the sole survivors of a flood that wiped out those that angered "GOD". <----------- How is that possible? I hope your garage door was repaired right and didn't cost a lot.
Click to expand...
Noah, his wife, their 3 sons and their wives were the only survivors of the flood (8 in all). The daughters-in-law could have been from different races. It's even possible that Noah's wife was a different race. Maybe all 8 possessed genetics to produce children of different races. The most important part of your question though is that we're all part of the Human Race, all created by the same God, all for the same purpose...to believe in God.

You have asked many good questions. I applaud your depth of creative thinking and challenges. You're the kind of person that would be an interesting conversationalist over dinner. Anyway, let me see if there are any I can answer since I'm not an evolutionist as you may have guessed. I'm more comfortable with creationism.

I can only say there are still questions that evolutionists have like who our direct evolutionary ancestor was (although some paleoanthropologists think it's Hilde-something lol...or was it another species). They still don't know how much inbreeding there was between our species and Neanderthals. And they don't know how we're going to evolve from here.

Oh, and "Garage Door Mike" fixed my door with flying colors for $80. Since I was originally just going to replace it with a new one for $2000, I was quite happy to pay the $80, ice water for the crew, and a tip. It's been a good day in NC :thumbsup:
 
Sunny,

Well, that’s my point isn’t it? You can’t prove the non-existence of something.

My other point is it doesn’t matter what you call what you fall off of-dead is dead.

Who says the burden of proof is on the person who makes the statement? It’s not. I have nothing to prove to anyone. Proof would only matter if I really wanted someone to believe in the tooth fairy. I don’t. Remember, believe or don’t believe. It’s a matter of faith, no proof required. It is a mistake to assume that anyone cares if someone believes them or not.

In the house I grew up in, there was no tooth fairy, no quarters under the pillow, and survival was a challenge. This is what happens when you assume certain unknown facts from a position of complete ignorance. You say silly things.
 

This tread is starting to illustrate the futility of this kind of discussion: many people spending a lot of time and energy attempting to reconcile diametrically opposite ideas and opinions. Sooner or later several people get very frustrated and then the discussion begins to heat up.

It is good to explore different ideas and beliefs but sooner or later a point is reached where it has bogged down and going nowhere. It is then time for everyone to get on with living out their principles and beliefs in real life. Believer or atheist, if we all do that, together we can make a difference in this world. We can come together for the good of our neighbours.
 
Really Warrigal? I didn't see that one coming. I think it's an excellent thread with almost 3,000 Views and 230 Replies...and it's only been a week! I just walk away from "the heat" and use my time where discussion is of interest to me...and there's plenty of that in this thread in my opinion.
 
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Warrigal said:
This tread is starting to illustrate the futility of this kind of discussion: many people spending a lot of time and energy attempting to reconcile diametrically opposite ideas and opinions. .
Click to expand...

We’re all of the age here where our personal beliefs are quite set….like etched….in stone.

The Bible does look to be a nice story, some seemingly infantile in places, some rather farfetched.

But

If yer lookin’, and wondering

The prophecies are irrefutable
So precise, there is no argument

The well-known one, in the book of Daniel, interpreting King Nebuchadnezzar’s dream is a prime example.

It made things very actual (note to self; hey this shit is real) for this foul creature

But, that’s just me

Not here to convert anyone

I’ve heard all the arguments pro and con
Too many times

There’s just never enough beer for such debates



Please continue, though

Just try not to be vile about it

Especially about The One still trying to save this gnarly ass in spite of himself

Tends to piss me off

vLrBdT3.png
 
Pepper said:
What people believe to be true is considered fact for them without evidence or based on rumors they wish to believe. No politics allowed, I know, but you can see examples of this in present day society.
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You are defining "faith", the opposite of fact. All religion mold followers in to believing what they throw at them and keep throwing at them until they concede.
 
fmdog44 said:
You are defining "faith", the opposite of fact. All religion mold followers in to believing what they throw at them and keep throwing at them until they concede.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily

‘Faith’ is not blind, as often stated, even by well-meaning Christians
Just the opposite

‘Faith’ can see things that are not ‘there’

It just takes experience

And knowledge

Like right now, you have faith in what you actually don’t see

You have faith that you have a front door, even though you’re on the back porch
You know its color, shape, and function
You can ‘see’ it

Understanding the written Word is like that
But you have to have the knowledge
And experience

It takes study

Not many are willing to study that Book

Sadly, many of those of religion work it all like a surgeon
Reaping monetary rewards

I do hate 'religion' for that
It fosters the opposite of everything good
And exemplified in the Gospels when The Lord rebuked the Pharisees
 
OK, so I looked up definitions of "faith," and as usual, got several different points of view. Some of them just pretty much said it is belief in something. Others were along the line of:

"firm belief in something for which there is no proof" (Merriam Webster).

These are two very different concepts. If to you it means the belief that you have a front door, that is just a belief in reality, something that can be proven, which is based on the evidence of your
own senses. And it is not a stubborn insistence that you have a front door; what if you were living in a war zone and heard a loud bang from the direction of your front door? You might hope that your front door is still there, but you probably wouldn't have faith that it is. (Let's hope that none of us ever have to have that kind of faith in our life!)

The second definition is the problematic one. Anyone can say he/she believes that something or someone exists, based on "faith." That immediately shuts the door on any rational discourse. Yes, Aneeda, I can keep insisting that there is a Tooth Fairy, because I "just know" she is there. (Whether or not you believed in her as a child is not the point; I didn't either, that was just an example of belief in an imaginary being.) And a psychotic can keep insisting that a boogeyman is lurking in his closet, though he can't prove it.

You can believe that black cats and broken mirrors bring bad luck, and throwing salt over your shoulder brings good luck. Those superstitiions are also based on "faith" for those who believe in them.
Whether I believe there is any validity to those beliefs, in the absence of any evidence, is of course up to me.
Well, that’s my point isn’t it? You can’t prove the non-existence of something.

My other point is it doesn’t matter what you call what you fall off of-dead is dead.

Who says the burden of proof is on the person who makes the statement? It’s not.
Click to expand...


1. I repeat, I don't have to prove the non-existence of something. In the absence of evidence. If there is no evidence, it's all just conjecture, not fact.
2. Yes, "dead is dead." So, falling off a wave and dying is the same thing as proving that the earth is flat? Wow, where to even begin answering that one?
3. Yes, no matter how many times you try denying it, the burden of proof is always on the one making an assertion, not to those hearing their assertion. This is true for absolutely every idea which is supposedly fact (not opinion) that has ever been offered by anybody. Otherwise, you are just stubbornly repeating, "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."
​
 
Looking for proof & questioning various points has brought me to looking up the definitions of fact & fiction. While reading the definitions I came across a reference to a well researched source. I googeled this


http://www.archive.org/stream/biblemythsandthe00doanuoft/biblemythsandthe00doanuoft_djvu.txt


Full text of "Bible myths and their parallels in other religions : being a comparison of the Old and New Testament myths and miracles with those of heathen nations of antiquity, considering also their origin and meaning"


It's extremely long so taking time to read it will not be done today. But as I understand the definitions of and fiction the bible is fiction. That doesn't mean those that believe are being fooled it just means science and proving various events to have a factual explanation works for me.

Thanks for the comment Lara I don't want to come across as antagonistic.
 
Knight said:
Looking for proof & questioning various points has brought me to looking up the definitions of fact & fiction. While reading the definitions I came across a reference to a well researched source. I googeled this


http://www.archive.org/stream/biblemythsandthe00doanuoft/biblemythsandthe00doanuoft_djvu.txt


Full text of "Bible myths and their parallels in other religions : being a comparison of the Old and New Testament myths and miracles with those of heathen nations of antiquity, considering also their origin and meaning"


It's extremely long so taking time to read it will not be done today. But as I understand the definitions of and fiction the bible is fiction. That doesn't mean those that believe are being fooled it just means science and proving various events to have a factual explanation works for me.

Thanks for the comment Lara I don't want to come across as antagonistic.
Click to expand...
What an excellent post. :clap:
 
It’s refreshing to see a thread on such a controversial topic get discussed so respectfully.
People are being open minded enough to consider other people’s points of view.
Most threads I’ve seen on this topic aren’t usually this civil.
Its a nice read.
 
I would point out, again, that the thread is not about the Bible, the tooth fairy, or weather or not the earth is flat. The thread is not about religion. Due to the make up of the members of the forum the thread does seem to concentrate mostly on the Christian gods-whether they exist or don’t.

It seems that most of the believers, believe in God the Father which does not exclude the Big Bang theory, IMO. JC as the son of god; but what about all the other religious great men who are prophets of god. What god are they a prophet of? What about preachers who claim when they die they will sit at the right hand of god?

Not to mention reincarnation. I would like to believe in reincarnation, return to this life in a better healthier body. Who knows about this? Let’s widen the discussion to other sons of gods, those known as prophets.
 
Aneeda72 said:
I would point out, again, that the thread is not about the Bible, the tooth fairy, or weather or not the earth is flat. The thread is not about religion. Due to the make up of the members of the forum the thread does seem to concentrate mostly on the Christian gods-whether they exist or don’t....what about all the other religious great men who are prophets of god. What god are they a prophet of? What about preachers who claim when they die they will sit at the right hand of god?...Let’s widen the discussion to other sons of gods, those known as prophets.
Click to expand...
You say this thread is not about the Bible...but rather "Who is God"...but the Bible is God's Word that tells who he is (and also tells us that Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God). Btw, Christians only believe in one God and one Son of God*. I hope I've helped to explain Who God Is from a Christian perspective.
So I will quietly move to the back of the room :wave: Do I hear clapping in the rafters?:applause2::laugh:

Enjoy, and thank you for having me in the thread for at least awhile. I enjoyed everyone. I know it was hard for some. I understand.

*One God in 3 forms (Father, Son, and spirit) with 3 separate functions, purposes
 
Gary O' said:
Not necessarily

‘Faith’ is not blind, as often stated, even by well-meaning Christians
Just the opposite

‘Faith’ can see things that are not ‘there’

It just takes experience

And knowledge

Like right now, you have faith in what you actually don’t see

You have faith that you have a front door, even though you’re on the back porch
You know its color, shape, and function
You can ‘see’ it

Understanding the written Word is like that
But you have to have the knowledge
And experience

It takes study

Not many are willing to study that Book

Sadly, many of those of religion work it all like a surgeon
Reaping monetary rewards

I do hate 'religion' for that
It fosters the opposite of everything good
And exemplified in the Gospels when The Lord rebuked the Pharisees
Click to expand...

Faith on knowing the status of a door is hardly comparable to that of millions of people all over the world on creation of life. Note also there are episodes of the faithful "seeing" angels and other deities. These visions or miracles are tied to faith. Also, faith dictates human behavior in the critical areas of our lives and those are the areas I find deplorable. The history of worshiping a God is not a pretty one to put it mildly.
 
Lara,

Stay in the front of the room. This thread needs you. It seems, and I could be wrong, that at times the thread is in danger of becoming a bible study group. This would be fine if everyone weren’t not so rusty, except you and a few others, on the Bible. Do not make me read my Bible, lol. I actually found a copy. The one that weights five pounds. How could I misplace that?


I am aware that Christians believe in one god and that JC is the son. I believe this. But there must be non-Christian believers, who believe in god, who could share their beliefs as well. I am just inviting others to participate. All views are welcome.

Knight made an interesting point in his genesis scripture (can’t figure out the quote thing) 11-9 quote about “let us go down”. Whose is the “let us”?
 
Just when I thought all perspectives were being taken into account equally.
Perhaps that was wishful thinking on my part.
Its always been my understanding that the bible is an interpretation of how our religious God became.
It’s been interesting reading all the different perspectives on the same subject.
It shows how diverse our understanding of it is and yet none are wrong; just different.
 
Thank you Aneeda but it's time for me to observe and enjoy from a distance. I agree with you that others may like to see less "Bible Study" and rather see more non-christians sharing about their idea of God or Gods. For me to step back perhaps will make them more comfortable to participate. I'll be interested and will continue following the thread :cool:
 
Keesha said:
Just when I thought all perspectives were being taken into account equally.
Perhaps that was wishful thinking on my part.
Its always been my understanding that the bible is an interpretation of how our religious God became.
It’s been interesting reading all the different perspectives on the same subject.
It shows how diverse our understanding of it is and yet none are wrong; just different.
Click to expand...

None are wrong about their understanding and NONE are right...nobody knows for sure....nobody. :)

We might get an answer when we die but we might not.
 
So in other words, we really "don't know nuthin." Which is what I've been saying. Not about what happens after we die, at any rate.

In my case, the more I learn about the universe, mostly from the brilliant videos available on TV, the more I realize how little any of us know. Example below:

Just thinking about numbers like that takes my breath away. So to me, it makes absolutely no sense to take seriously the concepts of "God the father" made up millenia ago by people who were trying to understand, but who lived in a much smaller, narrower universe than we do, people who believed the earth was a little over 5,000 years old, etc. And who had no concept of the vastness of what is out there.

https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwi...r-of-sand-grains-on-earth-or-stars-in-the-sky
 
This topic seems to have morphed a little. It started out as Who is God? and has moved into What is Faith?
This is an interesting question and some of the posts I have read seem to equate faith with belief but they are not the same concept.

IMO faith is more linked to trust than belief. Faith is something innate in humans. In infants it seems to be intuitive and as the child grows their faith grows and matures through stages. It is not necessarily religious faith. Everyone places their faith in something. Some trust science, some money and others trust power. Some put their faith in the rule of law and rules to live by. To give an example of the faith of a child - when a father holds out his arms to a child standing on top of the closet and says "Jump", the child doesn't hesitate, he happily jumps, confident that he will be safe. He has faith in his parent.

If anyone is interested in looking into the nature of faith and how it develops as we mature, I recommend a book by Fowler titled Stages of Faith. It is about faith as a general concept and also how it exhibits in the context of the secular as well as religion. Anyone familiar with the work of Bruner, Piaget or Kohlberg will find this book informative.
 
fmdog44 said:
Faith on knowing the status of a door is hardly comparable to that of millions of people all over the world on creation of life. Note also there are episodes of the faithful "seeing" angels and other deities. These visions or miracles are tied to faith. Also, faith dictates human behavior in the critical areas of our lives and those are the areas I find deplorable. The history of worshiping a God is not a pretty one to put it mildly.
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To each his own

I fully understand
 
Warrigal,

An interesting concept not only faith vs. belief, but how the thread has changed into different things for different people. How most of us view what the discussion is about in different ways. No wonder the human race cannot come to a meeting of the minds in general, let alone on this thread, on agreeing who god is or was. God had to evolve as we evolved.

Unfortunately, I must disagree on your take of faith vs belief. Yes, children learn to trust through their interactions with their parents. They also learn to distrust. Had my father put me on a high dresser and told me to jump, I would have jumped-out of fear of my father. Better to hit the floor when he stepped back and refused to catch me, then endure the beating for not obeying his command.

In a way, surprisingly, this makes Sunny’s, and others, point. People worshiped god in early times not necessarily because of a belief in god, but a belief in what would happen due to non-belief. The herd mentality was even stronger in those days. Follow the popular beliefs or be kicked out of the herd. Wanton woman were stoned to death.

Which makes the bravery of the early Christians even more amazing, especially the bravery of Mary, the mother of JC who has not been discussed on this thread. While the thread hasn’t talked about fate, fate plays a large role as well. If at any step in the process someone had failed or refused to fulfill their part in the drama of the accession of JC, then his godhood would have/might have failed.

Hand if fate? Hand of God? Who wants/can explain the difference? Is there a difference?
 
Aneeda72 said:
Knight made an interesting point in his genesis scripture (can’t figure out the quote thing) 11-9 quote about “let us go down”. Whose is the “let us”?
Click to expand...
The use of us appears again in Genesis 3:22.

There is a variety of interpretations at this web site.

https://www.biblehub.com/genesis/3-22.htm

No matter what the various interpretations are, it seems to me "GOD" is implying there are more that have equal standing. I put "GOD" in quotes because that is the theme of this thread. Given the reference to us & the theme includes other potentials. What do you think about us being used ?
 

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