^^^Bingo. And when the pot for the lottery is this big, safety usually goes out the window.
Who Won't Opt For The Vaccine
- Thread starter fmdog44
- Start date
Keep in mind that "Getting Sick" is not always the flu. Therefore, a flu shot wouldn't prevent it. People often say "I have the flu" when they just have a cold. I've even heard people say, "I had fever, vomiting & diarrhea for 3 days because I didn't get a flu shot." They're confusing food poisoning with the flu.
Well my cousin in CA got what she thought was covid last May. So she was taken to a hospital and tested. The results were negative but she did have all the symptoms of a covid like flu. The doctor prescribed an antibiotic cocktail of Tetracycline and Doxycycline. She fully recovered within a few days. So I'm glad for that. Why I wouldn't take a vaccine now? Because it's being done too fast and I do know from my cuz at J&J that no vaccine or any medicine should be handled this way. One of his deepest regrets as a pharmaceutical engineer is that he knows he may not live to see people benefit from his work.
It's just the speed of it. Besides, I've lived in a covid infested world for 9 months going out almost daily, maskless because I cannot wear one due to a medical condition and I know from the evidence of my own eyes that the world is not as dangerous as the media is telling people it is. I can understand people who have stayed in quarantining all this time watching CNN would be scared to death of this virus.
This is an interesting article from Yale regarding the vaccine issues:
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-safety
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-safety
Chic, doesn't the "evidence of your own eyes" show you the bodies being loaded into refrigerated trucks? And the exhausted health care workers who are working around the clock, often with dying patients? And the personal experiences that people who have barely survived have shared with us, begging us to take care of ourselves and follow the advice about wearing masks and social distancing? And the figures of sickness and death going up all the time, especially in this country? Do you think Italy and other countries shut down for an entire month in the spring just for some frivolous reason? (And how did that benefit anyone's bank account?)
You say they are developing the vaccine too fast. Many would say too slowly. We are in a crisis, this is not something to deal with in a leisurely manner. I am impressed beyond measure by the ability of the researchers to be developing this vaccine as fast as they are! Of course, we don't want them to be slipshod about it. I haven't heard any accusations that this is the case.
I hear what you're saying: you are not personally seeing people dying right in front of you; therefore it can't be happening. I'm not seeing that either, fortunately. But I believe it. I don't think there is a huge media conspiracy designed to needlessly scare everybody, in order to make somebody rich.
You say they are developing the vaccine too fast. Many would say too slowly. We are in a crisis, this is not something to deal with in a leisurely manner. I am impressed beyond measure by the ability of the researchers to be developing this vaccine as fast as they are! Of course, we don't want them to be slipshod about it. I haven't heard any accusations that this is the case.
I hear what you're saying: you are not personally seeing people dying right in front of you; therefore it can't be happening. I'm not seeing that either, fortunately. But I believe it. I don't think there is a huge media conspiracy designed to needlessly scare everybody, in order to make somebody rich.
Recent article from Dr. Fauci on the vaccine safety:
https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/n...you-should-not-fear-covid-vaccine/6353614002/
https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/n...you-should-not-fear-covid-vaccine/6353614002/
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
Very good article, thanks. Unfortunately, it's from October 19th - a very long time ago in terms of vaccine progress.
I hope they update the information soon.
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Shalimar
SF VIP
- Location
- Vancouver Island Canada
So much anger. Sad, really.
LOL.
AnnieA
Well-known Member
- Location
- Down South
She's "standing strong" on an issue that has a lot of unanswered questions. The biggest unanswered question is real world efficacy and we won't know that until Phase IV trials will start after the "Advanced Approval" rollout into the general population. Other unanswered questions involved how people above 60 will react to the vaccine because that was the cut off in the broadest age parameter study to date. And there are many, many more unanswered questions including how long the vaccine antibodies will even protect. The stronger antibodies produced by actual illness aren't lasting but a few months in some people who have gotten Covid-19 twice.
This issue is a personal one that people must make after serious study. Not an issue to attempt to emotionally manipulate people into one's personal view with dramatic rhetoric. I'm guessing that's what @win231 is picking up on.
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Butterfly
SF VIP
- Location
- Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
Well said. A lot of things happen in the world that we don't personally see. I didn't personally see anybody get killed in Vietnam, but some of my school friends came home in sealed boxes. If we only believe what we personally see, our world will become unbelievably small.
I don't believe there's a huge media conspiracy, either. In the first place, how many people would have to be involved in such a conspiracy to make it work? What are they getting out of it? How could a conspiracy that large be controlled so nobody blabs? Are frontline doctors and other medical workers in on it? Were the great number of medical workers who've died of it in on it? Why would they do that? Were all the people who've died in on it? What did they get? If they're not really dead, where did they go? Are/were over a quarter of a million dead Americans in on said conspiracy? That's one hell of a lot of conspirators.
I don't believe it for one minute.
AnnieA
Well-known Member
- Location
- Down South
I think everyone after that initial fearful shelter-in-place period goes through a stage of not believing it's bad ...until it is. Our area didn't really get going until mid July. Since that time, our friends and family group have lost six people. The five stages of grief ...anger, depression, denial, bargaining, acceptance... occur in no particular order and we can reach acceptance only to go back into one of the other stages.
Furryanimal
Y gath o Gymru
- Location
- Wales
Someone just posted this elsewhere
"TED notice 506291" description of tender: The MHRA urgently seeks an Artificial Intelligence (AI) software tool to process the EXPECTED HIGH volume of Covid-19 vaccine ADVERSE Drug Reaction (ADRs)
"TED notice 506291" description of tender: The MHRA urgently seeks an Artificial Intelligence (AI) software tool to process the EXPECTED HIGH volume of Covid-19 vaccine ADVERSE Drug Reaction (ADRs)
Re: Covid-19 vaccines: Many ADRs are already expected
Dear Editor
The Ted-tenders electronic daily: Supplement to the Official Journal of the EU, details a contract negotiated by the Medicines and Healthcare Products Agency (MHRA), dated 14.9.20 (1).
It states: “The MHRA urgently seeks an Artificial Intelligence (AI) software tool to process the expected high volume of Covid-19 vaccine Adverse Drug Reaction (ADRs) and ensure that no details from the ADRs’ reaction text are missed”.
It further explains: “For reasons of extreme urgency under Regulation 32(2)(c) related to the release of a Covid-19 vaccine MHRA have accelerated the sourcing and implementation of a vaccine specific AI tool…… it is not possible to retrofit the MHRA’s legacy systems to handle the volume of ADRs that will be generated by a Covid-19 vaccine. Therefore, if the MHRA does not implement the AI tool, it will be unable to process these ADRs effectively. This will hinder its ability to rapidly identify any potential safety issues with the Covid-19 vaccine and represents a direct threat to patient life and public health”.
Why do they expect that a high volume of ADRs will be generated?
And would it not be more sensible to determine the safety profile of a Covid-19 vaccine while the stable door is shut, rather than monitor the galloping horse once it has bolted?
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4258/rr
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
The vaccine studies have been very open about adverse reactions, and have been since the earliest trial phases began. More than 10% get fevers, headaches and body aches for a day or two. This hasn't been hidden from us.
Of course they will - and should - develop a tracking system to stay on top of ADRs.
I'm not concerned with the usual flu like side effects.
This is what's highly concerning.
"a direct threat to patient life and public health"
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
The statements are: "Therefore, if the MHRA does not implement the AI tool, it will be unable to process these ADRs effectively. This will hinder its ability to rapidly identify any potential safety issues with the Covid-19 vaccine and represents a direct threat to patient life and public health”.
So the article is saying if side effects are not tracked, and it turns out there are safety issues, then there could be a direct threat to patient life & public health.
Not tracking side effects would be foolhardy indeed, I agree. But the whole point of the article is their intention to track any ADRs. "The MHRA urgently seeks an Artificial Intelligence (AI) software tool to process the expected high volume of Covid-19 vaccine Adverse Drug Reaction (ADRs) and ensure that no details from the ADRs’ reaction text are missed."
Am I missing something here?
I'm not against a vaccine. I pray daily and sometimes throughout the day for a safe and effective vaccine and treatment to combat this horrendous virus killing people all over the world.
When a safe vaccin is available I will get it. And I will be the one determining if it's safe enough. Not those preaching its safety.
When it's been distributed to enough people and shown to be safe. Until then I will read about it and learn as much as I can about it, and post articles I find that I feel others may be interested in regardless if their are others who feel its A-OK to be first in line, or who think that those who choose to wait are being stupid or a threat to their health just because some wish to wait for proven safety.
When a safe vaccin is available I will get it. And I will be the one determining if it's safe enough. Not those preaching its safety.
When it's been distributed to enough people and shown to be safe. Until then I will read about it and learn as much as I can about it, and post articles I find that I feel others may be interested in regardless if their are others who feel its A-OK to be first in line, or who think that those who choose to wait are being stupid or a threat to their health just because some wish to wait for proven safety.
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
Understood. Agree that we all have to find our comfort zone with this. I'm glad to not be a first responder, medical professional or have underlying conditions, because I wouldn't want to have to make an early decision.
Sounds like they are trying to ramp up the"awareness" timeline for installing the new software...squeaky wheel usually gets the grease!
Becky, nothing wrong with praying all day for a safe and effective vaccine, if that's what you think it takes to get one. (I don't.) But developing this vaccine and getting it distributed and used requires more than prayer. Taking any medication requires a certain amount of trust in the medical and scientific communities.
We all have to reach a certain balance between fear of the unknown, and fear of a very much known danger. For those of us in seniorhood, the danger of dying from this disease is pretty high, and even if you don't die from it, it's certainly not something anyone in their right mind would want to get.
Sadly, this disease was so politicized, at least in this country, that many have allowed that to sway their thinking on the subject. We all have to clear our minds from group thinking, us vs. them, and just pay attention to the numbers. How many people have died from it? Is the curve continuing to go up, or is it flattening? And when the vaccine is finally in use, how many have died or gotten seriously ill from taking it? This is just plain old common sense.
When they came out with a new pneumonia vaccine, and a better vaccine against shingles, my doctor recommended both, and I immediately got them. (No side effects from either.) I didn't embark on a comprehensive study of these vaccines, I had no idea how long either of them had been in use, how good the testing methods were, what the statistics were about side effects and possible illness and death, whether anyone had grown two heads, whatever. I just took the vaccines, trusting that my doctor knows what he is talking about.
Why all this hoopla about this one vaccine? Why all the denial (until pretty recently) about the seriousness of this disease? I have never seen the public, or at least a substantial portion of it, fighting so hard against its own interests. Though of course, the more people that step back and wait, afraid to be in the front lines of receiving the vaccine, the easier it will be for the rest of us to get access to a life-saving medication, and return to normal life.
C'est Moi
Dishin' it out.
- Location
- Houston Y'all
For those of you promoting the vaccine, why so hysterical about others who are hesitating? If YOU want to take the vaccine, then take it. You will be protected from those of us who choose not to, so what's the big deal?
AnnieA
Well-known Member
- Location
- Down South
I used to trustingly take them all until my nephew's vaccine injury. That along with my ever increasing list of autoimmune diseases changed things.
I'm not anti-vax, but do have serious distrust of the pharmaceutical industry having dealt with so many reps in my career who stuck studies in my face without disclosing in our conversation that their company funded the study. You have to skip to tiny print at the bottom to find the disclosure.
Then there's liability immunity for vaccines in the US for a product made by an industry that pays Congress more lobbying dollars than any other industry.
For the last question: Why all the hoopla for one vaccine? None of the current ones close to FDA Accelerated Approval been proved effective and won't be until after the fast track roll out when Phase IV trials will start. Usually Phase IV trials have to be completed before a therapeutic is given to the general public.
If you have autoimmune diseases please be careful. People with autoimmune diseases cannot take a live antibodies vaccine and you may require hospitalization to be inoculated successfully.