Will The Taliban Take Kabul on 9-11?

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Sunny said:
from my (very limited) knowledge the Taliban was not responsible for anyway
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My knowledge is also limited, but I believe the only role the Taliban played was in sheltering Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda. Which ended pretty quickly after our initial invasion, I never did understand why we stayed after that...

Over the years lots of people have sheltered Bin Laden and/or Al-Qaeda, including the Saudis.
 

I'm laughing at the News folks on ALL channels, foaming at the mouth while trying to put the blame on Biden....sorry idiots, the
blame goes on the backs of the Regular Afghan citizens who REFUSE to defend their country.....imo
 

IMO, if the people in those areas want to support extremists such as the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and Hamas, etc., that is their choice, and they can live with the results. If those extremists try to engage in terrorist activity that affects us, we should mount a quick and massive response to punish them, then let them live with their stupidity.
 
Since Afghanistan is and will be in the news for a while, I got a view of the country from Google maps. I zoomed in on Bagram Air Base and Kabul. It gives you a little more perspective of the place.
 
This article explains much of what went wrong with the Afghan army's swift defeat, but ...warning!... has a lot of US political stuff we can't discuss. I can't even post the title. But there's plenty of blame to cast on both political flavors over the past 20 years.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/08/afghanistan-taliban-advance-collapse.html

Key points:

1) The Taliban are guerrilla fighters which means mobile, quick attacks on stationary Afghan bases ....big 'ole sitting duck fat targets. For the Afghan army to maintain an adequate defense against the Taliban, we could've withdrawn our combat troops but left a few critical infrastructure staff in place such as air support, logistics, intelligence and surveillance.​
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2) Direct quote from the article: "Taliban are more passionate and determined about fighting for their cause. Many Afghans, including many Afghan soldiers, hate and fear the Taliban, but they don’t feel much love or loyalty toward their government. Back in 2010 ... top U.S. military officers publicly warned that more troops would have little effect if the Afghan government didn’t clean up its corruption. ... The Taliban exploited that fact as well, preying on the Afghan people’s resentment of their leaders."​

Given point 2, point 1 probably wouldn't have helped much unless we helped forever.

I so wish we'd systematically evacuated vulnerable, native allies (heartbroken for the women who served in the Afghan military) and then just conceded defeat. No one in recorded history has ever defeated Afghan guerrilla fighters in large part due to the topography.

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Don M. said:
I firmly believe that the U.S. should keep its nose out of the strife that other nations face. Teddy Roosevelt had it right, IMO....Speak Softly and Carry a Big Stick. If we, or our close allies are attacked, we should respond quickly and with maximum force to show the "attackers" that they made a Bad decision. In this case, the objective should have been to "eliminate" Bin Laden, then let Afghanistan figure out how to handle the Taliban on their own....IMO. If their people think that such "extremism" is acceptable, there is little we can do to change their minds.
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Sometimes governments have to decide if it’s better to fight the war on their own homeland or their opponents. The U.S. had to respond to al-Qaeda after they left a field of destruction on 911. It was best to fight them on their own territory for a various reasons.
 
Alligatorob said:
My knowledge is also limited, but I believe the only role the Taliban played was in sheltering Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda. Which ended pretty quickly after our initial invasion, I never did understand why we stayed after that...

Over the years lots of people have sheltered Bin Laden and/or Al-Qaeda, including the Saudis.
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The decision was made to aide in building up the Afghan Army, so the U.S. could leave ASAP. Unfortunately, there were too many issues and stumbling blocks early on that needed to be addressed and this slowed that processed. The Afghan president was in a battle to keep power and needed the Americans to help him hold the line. It was months or maybe a few years before he was able to keep control.

While working in the Pentagon, I was temporarily assigned to the Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs. The U.S. had already been involved in a major arms build up in Afghanistan at the time, which meant to most of us that we were planning to be there for a long time. My department was responsible for procuring all of the armaments and artillery. The special ops troops had their own wish list and they were at the top of the list to be served. We took good care of those men and women. Women? Oh yes, there were a few that fought alongside the Rangers and Green Berets in certain circumstances.
 
Murrmurr said:
Hezbollah is has already had a meeting with the Taliban, just before the Taliban took Kabul.
Hezbollah is fairly friendly with Hamas.
Safe to say the US is banking on a lot of friction between those 3.
And if friction leads to chaos (it will), something that the CCP absolutely cannot abide, then they all got played.
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You need to dismiss the pro war propaganda from the Jerusalem Post and Fox along with the rest of the news media. These FAKE NEWS sources tell you that Hezbollah, Hamas, ISIS, al-Qaeda, al-Daawa, and others are inter related and that that the governments of Iran, Saudi Arabia, and others love them. If you read actual news sources from these groups you will find that you have been fed pro war lies. Every day you are fed these lies.

Iran (and its proxy Hezbollah) in alliance with ISIL/Isis? Nonsense. See: Iran and ISIL - Wikipedia

quote: "Iran is an opponent of Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), fighting the group in Syria and Iraq." Iranians marched into Iraq and fought both groups. No nation on earth hates Iran more than does Saudi Arabia which has supported ISIL: WIKILEAKS: Kingdom of Saudi Arabia Funds and Logistically Supports ISIL | HuffPost

Mujahideen pals with al-Daawa? Nothing could be further from the truth: al Da'wah Party | Terrorist Groups | TRAC (trackingterrorism.org) as they have been at war for many years ~ ''2006 Mujahideen Shura Council attack on the headquarters of al Dawa'' .


I could give you many other sources to prove that the lies you get from Fox and the controlled pro war media are FAKE NEWS fabrications designed to promote hate and to foment wars. But it's best that you do this on your own. Look up authentic sites from those countries and from anti war groups so that you can learn the TRUTH rather than the pro war lies.
 
With the swiftness of their actions, I knew they'd take Kabul way before 9/11. @senior chef What they are doing is UN-Islamic! But unfortunately, these are the maniacs people look at and model their belief about we Muslims. Makes me sick!!
 
Been There said:
Sometimes governments have to decide if it’s better to fight the war on their own homeland or their opponents. The U.S. had to respond to al-Qaeda after they left a field of destruction on 911. It was best to fight them on their own territory for a various reasons.
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It is a matter of record that it was the CIA financed and empowered al-Qaeda. Stay out of the Middle East because their issues are no concern of ours and stop financing their political groups. That will stop the problem.
 
OneEyedDiva said:
With the swiftness of their actions, I knew they'd take Kabul way before 9/11. @senior chef What they are doing is UN-Islamic! But unfortunately, these are the maniacs people look at and model their belief about we Muslims. Makes me sick!!
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Many will be murdered. It's going to be a blood bath.
I feel very sorry for the women and girls who thought that they had a chance at a decent life. That dream is now dead.
 
oldiebutgoody said:
It is a matter of record that it was the CIA financed and empowered al-Qaeda. Stay out of the Middle East because their issues are no concern of ours and stop financing their political groups. That will stop the problem.
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Non-sense ! The CIA backed those who fought against the Russians. And ONLY then, as you bloody well know. Once the Russians were defeated, the arms and money stopped.
The "problem" will never stop. It has been going on since time immemorial. If they are not killing Jews, then they are killing each other. When they are not busy killing each other ... they are killing us.
In any event, they don't need our money. Petro-dollars, from every nation on earth, eventually finds it's way into their pockets.
 
hawkdon said:
I'm laughing at the News folks on ALL channels, foaming at the mouth while trying to put the blame on Biden....sorry idiots, the
blame goes on the backs of the Regular Afghan citizens who REFUSE to defend their country.....imo
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But did they actually REFUSE to defend their country?

I don't think so.

In refusing to fight the Taliban they showed that their real allegiance was to them, not to the puppet regime imposed by Bush. Thus, they actually did fight for their country be becoming allies with its invading enemy.
 
oldiebutgoody said:
It is a matter of record that it was the CIA financed and empowered al-Qaeda. Stay out of the Middle East because their issues are no concern of ours and stop financing their political groups. That will stop the problem.
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What guarantee do you have that they won’t bring the fight to you?
Are you referring to the money paid from the CIA for ransom of Americans?
 
senior chef said:
Non-sense ! The CIA backed those who fought against the Russians. And ONLY then, as you bloody well know. Once the Russians were defeated, the arms and money stopped.
The "problem" will never stop. It has been going on since time immemorial. If they are not killing Jews, then they are killing each other. When they are not busy killing each other ... they are killing us.
In any event, they don't need our money. Petro-dollars, from every nation on earth, eventually finds it's way into their pockets.
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And who financed the Bolsheviks thereby creating the Soviet state?

Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution by Antony C. Sutton (goodreads.com)


Professor Sutton was a CONSERVATIVE. His speeches are readily available on youtube. Check them out for yourself.
 
oldiebutgoody said:
But did they actually REFUSE to defend their country?

I don't think so.

In refusing to fight the Taliban they showed that their real allegiance was to them, not to the puppet regime imposed by Bush. Thus, they actually did fight for their country be becoming allies with its invading enemy.
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That’s kind of disingenuous. The Afghan Army never held up its end of the bargain. The U.S. cut a deal to defend their country while their Army trained under U.S. guidance. The U.S. also supplied millions and maybe billions of dollars in building up their Arsenal. They were to take command of their country and the U.S. would leave. For whatever reason, some of that is still classified, the Afghan army could never answer the call. You are right, Bush didn’t help matters much and I’ll leave it at that.
 
Been There said:
The Afghan Army never held up its end of the bargain. The U.S. cut a deal to defend their country while their Army trained under U.S. guidance.
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I believe the deal was between the US government and the puppet regime imposed by Bush. Bush did not sign a contract or enter into an agreement with the people of Afghanistan who have recognized the Taliban as their exclusive government all this time. This is why they refuse to fight against them.

Think of it this way: if the UN invaded Washington DC, imposed a puppet regime, and if you were a soldier, Would your loyalty be with that puppet or with the people of the USA? I believe that I can say with a high degree of certainty that your loyalty is and all always be with the land that gave you and your family life. Not with some foreign imposed puppet. The same, I'm sure, can readily be said with just about everyone in SeniorForums.
 
oldiebutgoody said:
...the people of Afghanistan who have recognized the Taliban as their exclusive government all this time. ...
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That's a stretch. :rolleyes: Afghanistan had been fighting a civil war for much of 1978-2001. The Afghan army that just fell to the Taliban didn't have much heart to fight for the US sponsored corrupt government, but to say that the Taliban is the preferred government of the people is absurd considering the people trying to flee the country and the many, many reports of abuses of women by the Taliban that have accelerated in recent days.

It's good to at least attempt post excerpts from sources for hyperbolic claims.

(I didn't quote your whole post since you're violating forum politics rules.)
 
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oldiebutgoody said:
I believe the deal was between the US government and the puppet regime imposed by Bush. Bush did not sign a contract or enter into an agreement with the people of Afghanistan who have recognized the Taliban as their exclusive government all this time. This is why they refuse to fight against them.

Think of it this way: if the UN invaded Washington DC, imposed a puppet regime, and if you were a soldier, Would your loyalty be with that puppet or with the people of the USA? I believe that I can say with a high degree of certainty that your loyalty is and all always be with the land that gave you and your family life. Not with some foreign imposed puppet. The same, I'm sure, can readily be said with just about everyone in SeniorForums.
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I get what you’re stating, however, it’s not cut and dry over there. The Taliban has to also be concerned with al-qaeda. Both want to rule the country. It’s kind of remarkable that they haven’t either enjoined or been at war with one another. They seem to be working in conjunction with one another, except they don’t trust one another. And, this is just my opinion. I left the Pentagon a few years ago and have very little contact with anyone who would be willing to share information with me. Things happen very quickly in the mid-east.
 

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