Will The Taliban Take Kabul on 9-11?

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oldiebutgoody said:
The imperialistic invasion failed as it did in Iraq and Vietnam because the USA failed to win over the majority of the population in those countries.
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From my perspective in Australia I can see parallels with Vietnam in that the US and allies destroyed goodwill of the people by treating them with contempt. Obviously I'm not talking about the majority of the troops but at the moment one of our most highly decorated servicemen (Victoria Cross) is accused of committing war crimes, In a nutshell, he is accused of murdering some men who had surrendered and were constrained, and by encouraging new Australian soldiers to murder villagers to "blood" them.

My Lai in Vietnam was a demonstration of contempt for the locals and I can remember the green on blue shootings in Afghanistan that revealed the hostility of locals toward foreign troops.

The spike in green-on-blue attacks (also known as "insider attacks") in Afghanistan in 2012 is a worrying development that has the potential to endanger the International Security Assistance Force's (ISAF) mission to train and prepare Afghan security forces for the challenges of stabilizing the country. It is important to establish both the scope of the green-on-blue threat as well as the context in which the attacks occur.

General trends in green-on-blue attacks​

From 2007 to 2012, there have been 71 documented green-on-blue attacks. It is difficult to draw definitive conclusions about the principal causes of these attacks given the small total number of incidents, but there are discernible trends.

First, insider attacks have increased in frequency over the past few years. Based on available information, there were two green-on-blue attacks in 2008, five in 2009 and 2010 each, 15 in 2011, and 42 in 2012 (as of November 13). Insider attacks were largely concentrated in the Southern, Southwestern, and Eastern regional commands. More than half of all attacks in 2012 occurred in Kandahar and Helmand, which were the focus of the counterinsurgency campaign during the "Surge."

Insider attacks are a complex phenomenon, and the trends in the data do not demonstrate causality. Instead, visualizing this data highlights the specific context in which each attack occurred. One notable anomaly is a complex attack on September 29, 2012, in which a group of apparent Afghan National Army soldiers ambushed a U.S. patrol from multiple directions at a checkpoint in Wardak, possibly with the aid of insurgents.
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Australian troops have fought beside US military in every engagement since WW II. Can anyone remember even one of these that ended well?
 

jerry old said:
Goot stuff as usual Trax
Someday bin Laden will be declared a saint (however that's done by Muslin's Hierarchy )

Lots of info here, how could we get ourselves into another Vietnam?
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What I was always curious about is when our troops ended the lives of Saddams two sons and he was hung by his own and these two events were viewed by all of humanity with a collective sigh of relief, yet BHO felt the need to consider the sensitivity of OBL's family so OBL was uncerimoniously deep sixed somewhere East of West and North of South. Strange.
 
jerry old said:
Trax: was read your Taliban Links, received email that Kabul fell to the Taliban.
CNN says there are still staff members in U.S. Embassy.
The 5000 American Troops some are in-country, a few, (How Many? CNN fuzzy on topic)
No slaughter of Americans is taking place, none expected
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I just checked CNN news and it has been reported that all of the Embassy staff has been evacuated. I hope the videos are released to Youtube next week. If I see anything I'll post them here ASAP. Should be interesting. I heard tell that some of the unencrypted HF military comms are being monitored and archive recorded on websdr & kiwisdr.
 

jerry old said:
The Russians gave it ten hard years.
We didn't learn a lot from their failure.

There already playing the blame game on the news channels 👎

(Mellow: have noted that Great Britain appeared to us Aussie and New Zealand troops as cannon fodder-is that a topic in your world?)
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Correct me if I am wrong jo but didn't we send advisors over there to help Bin Ladin defeat the Red Menace? Sorta like when Bush Sr. headed the CIA and was photographed sitting on a sofa with Noriega while Noriega was dumping tons of cocaine into the Ports of Miami and Los Angeles and when the Canal contract went South he gets extradited all over this planet then dies in his homeland. Convenient. I guess policy shifts are probably feared by spies and global bedfellows more then intelligence leaks.
 
FastTrax said:
What I was always curious about is when our troops ended the lives of Saddams two sons and he was hung by his own and these two events were viewed by all of humanity with a collective sigh of relief, yet BHO felt the need to consider the sensitivity of OBL's family so OBL was uncerimoniously deep sixed somewhere East of West and North of South. Strange.
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Iraq does not have anywhere near the oil reserves the Saudi's have, not even close. If Iraq had 'big oil' why the invasion of Kuwait.
There was a lot of discussion of how much oil Iraq had after the war.

The Saudi's have lot of oil.🐫
Their political significance is huge even bigger is their leadership of the Muslin World

Kind'a irritates me we walk on eggshells when dealing with one of the world's most repressive governments.
Finally, Saddam had no backup, he killed his political competitions.

Dictators do that; well how come the Saudi's don't have internal political problems.
They do, but there all family memberso_O
 
Murrmurr said:
@FastTrax - I'll bet the CCP wouldn't mind getting in on the opium trade, too....as long as the people of China don't have access to it. They certainly have the clout to offer the Taliban an expansion of sales.
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Murrmurr you just hit the nail on it's head. China has their hand in more global pies while it's gullible victims mistake their malevolence for benevolence. Africa has been feeling the serpents sting for the last 5 years give or take a century or two.
 
jerry old said:
Iraq does not have anywhere near the oil reserves the Saudi's have, not even close. If Iraq had 'big oil' why the invasion of Kuwait.
There was a lot of discussion of how much oil Iraq had after the war.

The Saudi's have lot of oil.🐫
Their political significance is huge even bigger is their leadership of the Muslin World

Kind'a irritates me we walk on eggshells when dealing with one of the world's most repressive governments.
Finally, Saddam had no backup, he killed his political competitions.

Dictators do that; well how come the Saudi's don't have internal political problems.
They do, but there all family memberso_O
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Also they are in bed with our leaders. Perfect example is Bandar Bush smoking a stogie with GBJ while the Pentagon burned in the distance. Saw that scene on Michael Moores Fahrenheit 9/11 video.
 
FastTrax said:
Murrmurr you just hit the nail on it's head. China has their hand in more global pies while it's gullible victims mistake their malevolence for benevolence. Africa has been feeling the serpents sting for the last 5 years give or take a century or two.
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I also think I'm right that the Taliban's increasing power in Afghanistan will create an eventual power struggle between them and Hamas and no doubt Hezbollah, too. It will be interesting to see who steps in the hardest, China or Russia.
 
FastTrax said:
Correct me if I am wrong jo but didn't we send advisors over there to help Bin Ladin defeat the Red Menace? Sorta like when Bush Sr. headed the CIA and was photographed sitting on a sofa with Noriega while Noriega was dumping tons of cocaine into the Ports of Miami and Los Angeles and when the Canal contract went South he gets extradited all over this planet then dies in his homeland. Convenient. I guess policy shifts are probably feared by spies and global bedfellows more then intelligence leaks.
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Well, not friends, chums war chums, especially the Northern Alliance.
Also, with any other Alliances we could locate. No weapons, we were just trying to feel them out.
Remember, we were always seeking our Stinger Missiles.

Not sure what we were trying to woe from Afghan, they have minerals, lots and lots of minerals.
They wouldn't be that difficult to conquer; a bunch of folks runnning around in their pajamas-come on.
Russia didn't understand Muslims, that is why they failed; we, of course, knew all about Muslims.

We had a limited presence, as always we thought dealing with the political leaders was how to get things done.
We were unable to use our powerbroking ability in Afgan.
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Noruega: just prove to me he is still in jail.
 
There was a political family in power when many of the problems discussed occurred.
Their off limits so we will just have to eat leaves.
 
jerry old said:
Well, not friends, chums war chums, especially the Northern Alliance.
Also, with any other Alliances we could locate. No weapons, we were just trying to feel them out.
Remember, we were always seeking our Stinger Missiles.

Not sure what we were trying to woe from Afghan, they have minerals, lots and lots of minerals.
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Minerals, yes. Also geographically strategic, but we needed their cooperation and it wasn't forthcoming. Kind of like when Ho Chi Minh told the US, "Meh, I'm gonna be friends with Russia. But thanks for everything."
 
senior chef said:
Kabul has fallen to the Taliban. The country is now another failed nation state, AND a future home to world Islamic terrorism. Get ready America, the next Osama Bin laden is coming.
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It is a matter of record that OBL would not have succeeded without CIA money and war materiél. If another character like him does come along you can bet it is because he was financed by your tax dollars and groomed by your government.
 
Murrmurr said:
I also think I'm right that the Taliban's increasing power in Afghanistan will create an eventual power struggle between them and Hamas and no doubt Hezbollah, too. It will be interesting to see who steps in the hardest, China or Russia.
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Very doubtful since Hamas is a nationalist organization meaning that it has no political interest outside of its borders. Hezbollah is a Shiia affiliate. Shiia and Sunni have been at war with each other for centuries.
 
oldiebutgoody said:
It is a matter of record that OBL would not have succeeded without CIA money and war materiél. If another character like him does come along you can bet it is because he was financed by your tax dollars and groomed by your government.
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You know full well that that CIA money was used to fight the Russians when Russia was trying to subdue Afghanistan.
 
oldiebutgoody said:
Very doubtful since Hamas is a nationalist organization meaning that it has no political interest outside of its borders. Hezbollah is a Shiia affiliate. Shiia and Sunni have been at war with each other for centuries.
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Hezbollah is has already had a meeting with the Taliban, just before the Taliban took Kabul.
Hezbollah is fairly friendly with Hamas.
Safe to say the US is banking on a lot of friction between those 3.
And if friction leads to chaos (it will), something that the CCP absolutely cannot abide, then they all got played.
 
senior chef said:
Kabul has fallen to the Taliban. The country is now another failed nation state, AND a future home to world Islamic terrorism. Get ready America, the next Osama Bin laden is coming.
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Unfortunately you are probably right. Had we withdrawn right after Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden were driven from Afghanistan, ~19 years ago, we would have left with the impression that American power was something to be reckoned with. Now we are leaving looking weak, and having wasted many lives and dollars in the process... And as you say leaving a greater risk of future problems.

We are not, and cannot be the World's police. Don't know how many of these things we need to learn that lesson.
 
Anyone remember a "Wide World of Sports" episode in the early '80's that the stated theme was mountain climbing in Afghanistan, but in reality was a documentary about the resistance fighting the Russians?
 
Russia plans to partially evacuate staff from its embassy in Kabul following the Taliban’s swift takeover of the Afghan capital, a Foreign Ministry official said today. “We have a relatively large embassy in Afghanistan, it’s about 100 people altogether. Some of our employees will be sent on vacation or evacuated in some other way so as not to create too much of a presence," Kabulov said.

The militant group has already set up a perimeter around the Russian embassy, Kabulov added.

The official on Monday also said that Moscow will decide on recognizing the new Taliban government based "on the conduct of the new authorities. We will carefully see how responsibly they govern the country in the near future and based on the results, the Russian leadership will draw the necessary conclusions," Kabulov said.

Source: The Moscow Times
 
I heard reports on the radio this morning that our troops were withdrawn then even more sent in while thousands of American civilians were told to shelter in place. Some planning!
 
hawkdon said:
This whole business in that country is astonishing...as others have said the people in there don't care about their own future, who runs things and so on...it is mind blowing...what a useless
war it was.....imho
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I have never understood why we are there at all, let alone 20 years after 9/11, which from my (very limited) knowledge the Taliban was not responsible for anyway. Why have we hung on there so long, and what did we expect to accomplish?
 

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