Wisdom and Religion

Derby

Derby

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Canada
[FONT=&quot]Can religion make you wise? Does it take a spiritual or mystical experience to deliver wisdom? A researcher in California by the name of Dao Le was interested in this question. To find the answer, he studied a large group of Americans. Within this group, he isolated those who claimed to have had mystical or spiritual experiences as the result of their faith practices. He found that only a portion of the group had become wiser. Those who’d succeeded in developing wisdom had taken time to reflect upon the experience. They’d also integrated the spiritual event, or events, into their established values. Dissimilarly, those who’d had a mystical or spiritual experience but simply used it for bragging rights had missed the opportunity to become wise. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]The moral of this story probably doesn’t need to be stated. Humility and introspection appear to be key to the development of wisdom. These characteristics are mentioned repeatedly in sacred literature throughout the world. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Religious practice can be a cultural activity, a habit, an excuse to socialize, superstition, the result of social pressure, or a profound spiritual experience. Speaking for myself, my religious practice has featured elements of all the above. Religion and spirituality themselves can lead separate lives under the same steeple or synagogue roof. Within a lifetime, you might wander back and forth, experiencing a range of thoughts and feelings about religion. One day you might be ecstatic, and within a week, completely bored. You might change faiths. You might leave altogether and never return, yet still remember the stuff that made sense. Your religion, if you have one, is like the elementary school you attended. That’s where you received your foundational knowledge. It’s the basic stuff. Without it, you’ll need to scrounge for material before you begin framing wisdom.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]An example of wisdom teaching from the Judeo-Christian tradition is the story of King Solomon and his approach to conflict resolution. In this story, t[/FONT][FONT=&quot]wo women were arguing over a newborn baby. Both had recently given birth, but one had rolled over in the night and suffocated her child. When Solomon came upon them, they were arguing over the surviving infant. One woman accused the other of having stolen her child in the night. Solomon proposed a solution: he would take his sword and cut the child in half so that both mothers could have a portion. One mother relented immediately, crying, “No! Let her take the child!” It was to this mother that Solomon awarded the infant. He knew that the true mother would rather surrender her child than see it killed.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Buddhists in search of wisdom draw inspiration from the Buddha`s spiritual path. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]To him, wisdom came from understanding the true nature of reality.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] He taught that wisdom was strengthened through compassion. Yet from his point of view, empathy didn`t actually exist. To the Buddha, wisdom came from being able to both feel empathy and to free oneself from the illusion of the world. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Those who follow the teachings of Confucius know that the characteristics he commended included respect for one’s parents, refinement, sincerity, simplicity, and “ren,” which translates to humanity. He preached a version of what westerners know as the Golden Rule. Confucius said, “what you do not wish for yourself, do not impose on others.” [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Discussion Question[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]As religion plays a lesser part in the lives of many during the 21[SUP]st[/SUP] century, role models and inspirations outside of faith must be sought. If you were asked by someone younger – for example, by a 15-year-old – how to develop wisdom without any spiritual or religious practice, what would you advise? [/FONT]
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No I don't believe it takes
a spiritual or mystical experience to deliver wisdom? Good Topic!!!!​
 

As religion plays a lesser part in the lives of many during the 21[SUP]st[/SUP] century, role models and inspirations outside of faith must be sought. If you were asked by someone younger – for example, by a 15-year-old – how to develop wisdom without any spiritual or religious practice, what would you advise?
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First of all, it would be a remarkable 15 year old that would ask such a question but if I was asked I might suggest that he/she should seek inner calm and serenity of spirit. I would also advise living life to the full and learning about the human condition through experience and by listening to many voices.
 
Lon said:
No I don't believe it takes
a spiritual or mystical experience to deliver wisdom? Good Topic!!!!​
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I totally believe that, too. Lon. One is either born wise, or you're not. Can we get wiser? Absolutely. in many ways. By living and experience? Yes. By religious changing one's thinking--not really. It only gives us the incentive to do the good which we already knew we should.
 
Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius was wise without being religious or humble. I don't know what I'd tell a 15 year old in search of wisdom. You can learn anything almost anywhere everyday. Wisdom comes through reflection and application.
 
Buddhists are not usually ones to talk much. Could be that listening then is the key to wisdom.

And that is the advice I would give to a 15 year old. One mouth, two ears as the saying goes.
 
IMO the value of religion in developing wisdom is in the collection of stories relating to life lessons. I believe that a young person can gain that same knowledge and develop the skills needed to see the lessons in life by reading the works of wise and observant people like Aesop, Mother Goose, Ben Franklin, Mark Twain, Will Rogers, etc...

I also think that associating with and observing people with the skills that you would like to develop can yield big dividends over time. It doesn't really matter if you are trying to become healthy, wealthy or wise. Emulating a person that has developed a skill by trial and error can save you a great deal of time and will allow you to surpass the achievements of your role model.
 
Lon said:
No I don't believe it takes
a spiritual or mystical experience to deliver wisdom? Good Topic!!!!​
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Experience
Hi, Lon! I'm interested in what you believe wisdom requires. Scientific evidence? Knowledge? Experience? Thanks!
 
Aunt Bea said:
IMO the value of religion in developing wisdom is in the collection of stories relating to life lessons. I believe that a young person can gain that same knowledge and develop the skills needed to see the lessons in life by reading the works of wise and observant people like Aesop, Mother Goose, Ben Franklin, Mark Twain, Will Rogers, etc...

I also think that associating with and observing people with the skills that you would like to develop can yield big dividends over time. It doesn't really matter if you are trying to become healthy, wealthy or wise. Emulating a person that has developed a skill by trial and error can save you a great deal of time and will allow you to surpass the achievements of your role model.
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So apprenticeship and literature are the keys to wisdom for youth. Now what about us old folks? Can we develop wisdom? If so, how?
 
Gary O' said:
Sounds like a new thread in the making;
Repetitive duplicate redundancy and wisdom, can they exist in the same skull?
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Ha ha! Repetition and redundancy -- hard to avoid at my age. I repeat myself constantly -- but at least I have the sense nowadays to say, "Now stop me if you've heard this one."
 
chic said:
Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius was wise without being religious or humble. I don't know what I'd tell a 15 year old in search of wisdom. You can learn anything almost anywhere everyday. Wisdom comes through reflection and application.
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Thank you for mentioning Marcus Aurelius. After the death of two sons, Aurelius stated: 'One man prays: 'How I may not lose my little child', but you must pray: 'How I may not be afraid to lose him.' If a 15-year old were to ask me how to develop wisdom, I might look to this quote and suggest working to develop emotional strength and moral courage. Do you believe that’s a fair representation of Aurelius’ wisdom, or was there more to him that I'm missing?
 
Ultimately this is a controversial cul de sac as most or all professional philosophers will tell you.
Philosophy which is the search or love of wisdom (from Greek philo sophia) has innumerable answers and everyone disagrees with them.
So there is no definite answer.
No 15 year old boy would ask that question or understand it.
Some philosophers suggest reading Plato and Aristotle, but no 15 year old will understand them. Most adults do not/cannot.
Religious "wisdom" assumes that God exists, which itself is open to debate.
Large part of wisdom is purely theoretical, not relevant to daily life.
 
I always wondered about that King Solomon story. It assumes that the other women (not the real mother) is a psychopath who would rather see a baby cut in half than give it up to the rightful mother?

I realize this story is probably apocryphal and not at all true, but it always seemed kind of dumb to me. If King Solomon was supposed to be so wise, how come this is the most enduring story known about him?

To answer your question, I believe that religion has nothing at all to do with wisdom. People can be wise or not, with or without it.
 
The question


Quote
"how to develop wisdom without any spiritual or religious practice"


Looking at religion as the source to impart "the quality of having , and good judgment;


Summed up as the quality of being wise. A chimpanzee as a representative of the animal world imparts wisdom to it's offspring. The good judgement part developes from experience and knowledge gained. Done without religion.


Within the animal world survival or dominance dictate. Humans with religion go beyond that simple structure. Numerous directions on why to kill another human that have nothing to do with survival or dominance can be found in christian and religions.


Wisdom comes from being exposed to the world we live in. I don't think religion portrays the reality of the world we live in now. Becoming wise takes time, imparting what our own experiences have taught us will be the choice of the listener.
 
Sunny said:
I always wondered about that King Solomon story. It assumes that the other women (not the real mother) is a psychopath who would rather see a baby cut in half than give it up to the rightful mother?

I realize this story is probably apocryphal and not at all true, but it always seemed kind of dumb to me. If King Solomon was supposed to be so wise, how come this is the most enduring story known about him?

To answer your question, I believe that religion has nothing at all to do with wisdom. People can be wise or not, with or without it.
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An interesting point about King Solomon is that he eventually lost his wisdom and became immersed in material gain. That implies that wealth is antithetical to wisdom. I wonder about this. Would it have been possible for Solomon to have become wealthy and yet retain his famous wisdom? Or was his wisdom actually misrepresented from the start? As you say, offering to cut a baby in two was clever since one of the women was clearly nuts. But what if both others had been sane? What if both of the women had surrendered the baby in order to save its life?
 
Knight said:
The question


Quote
"how to develop wisdom without any spiritual or religious practice"


Looking at religion as the source to impart "the quality of having , and good judgment;


Summed up as the quality of being wise. A chimpanzee as a representative of the animal world imparts wisdom to it's offspring. The good judgement part developes from experience and knowledge gained. Done without religion.


Within the animal world survival or dominance dictate. Humans with religion go beyond that simple structure. Numerous directions on why to kill another human that have nothing to do with survival or dominance can be found in christian and religions.


Wisdom comes from being exposed to the world we live in. I don't think religion portrays the reality of the world we live in now. Becoming wise takes time, imparting what our own experiences have taught us will be the choice of the listener.
Click to expand...



I wonder if the goal of scriptures in all cultures isn't to fast-track wisdom. As you say, becoming wise takes time. And since we hope to spare our children our worst mistakes, I can see the purpose in committing advice on good living to scriptural text.
 
I think if I ever reached the epitome of wisdom, I would simply cease to exist, because what else would there be left to live for?
 
I'm not sure I can add anything to the discussion, and I'm still looking for some indication that I am wise, or even on the road to wisdom.

Since the original post did mention religion along with wisdom, I think it may be appropriate to bring a few points from scripture to bear upon the issue.

According to the bible, the wisest choice a human can make is to seek the foundation of wisdom and that, according to Proverbs, is “the fear of the Lord”. (Prov. 9:10)

Jesus gave us many wise precepts along the same lines. For example he illustrated this with the account of a rich man with abundant harvests, but who ran out of space to store his crops and decided to build bigger barns. He even said to himself “take life easy and eat drink and be merry.” Jesus said of him “You fool!”, and explained that if his life suddenly ended, who would get his surplus?

The lesson here is that Jesus was saying that the rich farmer had only considered himself and no one else. Further, He said that the wisest thing a person can do is store up treasures in heaven, that is, to be rich toward God. Treasures in heaven cannot rust or be stolen by thieves.

In other words, as the apostle Paul declared in Romans, ch 1, those who “neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.” He then went on to say that they claimed to be wise, but in fact were fools. Why?

Jesus gave the answer when He said that if we don’t acknowledge Him before men, then He will not acknowledge us before the angels in heaven. (Luke 12:9) The wisest man in all the bible, except for Jesus, was Solomon who exhorted us to “ Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind.” (Eccles. 12)

Just some thoughts to consider.
 
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