The Police Knee On The Neck Is Allowed!!

Pecos said:
I am really angered by what those police officers did and want to see them behind bars. I also think that all of the superiors who didn't take action against previous bad behavior should be fired for not performing their duty. Among other things, and entire profession (law enforcement) has been seriously tarnished.

The riots are very unsettling to me and I have a mix of emotions that I have not sorted out yet. It is saddening, but understandable, that people feel that they have no recourse but to take to the streets. I also think that it is completely wrong for property to be destroyed.

Riots against oppression are nothing new in this country and it bothers me that some are trying to present rioting as a minority issue. If they paid any attention to history, they would remember all of the riots associated with the abuse of labor and the Vietnam War.

I have no answer as to why this country has made such little progress in creating an equitable society since the civil war. Shame on us.
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Hmm, you mean the cowards who fled to Canada to avoid serving in the Vietnam Nam conflict? Then got to return home with a free pass while some of the men are still buried in the jungle.

What bothers me is the men and woman, who have never provided a service in their life to this country, feel they have the right to judge those that do service. But freedom of speech is freedom of speech.
 

Aneeda72 said:
Hmm, you mean the cowards who fled to Canada to avoid serving in the Vietnam Nam conflict? Then got to return home with a free pass while some of the men are still buried in the jungle.

What bothers me is the men and woman, who have never provided a service in their life to this country, feel they have the right to judge those that do service. But freedom of speech is freedom of speech.
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"Cowards"? Anything but in my eyes.
 
Aneeda72 said:
Hmm, you mean the cowards who fled to Canada to avoid serving in the Vietnam Nam conflict? Then got to return home with a free pass while some of the men are still buried in the jungle.

What bothers me is the men and woman, who have never provided a service in their life to this country, feel they have the right to judge those that do service. But freedom of speech is freedom of speech.
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I don't have a clue as to what you are trying to convey.
Don't bother to answer as I am adding you to my very short list of people to ignore.
 
Maybe lost in the back & forth of all this is the length of time the knee and pressure on the torso were in use to subdue a handcuffed "suspect".
 
Aneeda72 said:
Hmm, you mean the cowards who fled to Canada to avoid serving in the Vietnam Nam conflict? Then got to return home with a free pass while some of the men are still buried in the jungle.

What bothers me is the men and woman, who have never provided a service in their life to this country, feel they have the right to judge those that do service. But freedom of speech is freedom of speech.
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I agree with your viewpoint, til the last sentence- it's not 'freedom of speech' when it involves violence.
Locally, what started as 'peaceful protests' quickly escalated into the latter- converging on the police station blocks away from where it started, throwing bricks, bottles, and rocks, and smashing police cars.
 
JaniceM said:
I agree with your viewpoint, til the last sentence- it's not 'freedom of speech' when it involves violence.
Locally, what started as 'peaceful protests' quickly escalated into the latter- converging on the police station blocks away from where it started, throwing bricks, bottles, and rocks, and smashing police cars.
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I meant people on the forum have the right to say what they want to say.
 
911 said:
I think Baden’s autopsy results and opinions are going to be paramount for both the Prosecution and the defense. I was shocked (and it takes a lot to shock me) to read that the Coroner is listing coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease as contributing factors. I was like “What?”

My brother in law has hypertensive heart disease and his heart doctor had to shave part of his heart due to a thickening wall, which I never heard of before.
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I'm not a lawyer, but I have heard lawyers explain what the law is in situations where someone who was murdered has pre-existing conditions that may have contributed to his death. "You take your victim as he is," which I interpret to mean "It doesn't matter what condition or illness a victim has. If a perpetrator's actions contributed to his death, he is just as guilty as if the victim was in perfect health."

A similar defense tactic was used in the manslaughter trial of Dr. Conrad Murray (the doctor who killed Michael Jackson). His defense attorney presented evidence about Jackson's medical history to show that his death wasn't the doctor's fault. It didn't work; the doctor was convicted of manslaughter. I'm sure the dirtbag cop's attorney will use the same tactic; the coroner is already setting the stage by mentioning the victim's "Hypertension" & other conditions.
Technically, I doubt anyone is in "perfect" health at 50 years of age, or even younger; there would have to be some wear & tear; otherwise we would see professional athletes who haven't retired at that age.
Just about everyone has some "condition;" someone in absolutely-perfect health is a rarity. I think it's a shame that such "evidence" is even permitted.
 
win231 said:
I'm not a lawyer, but I have heard lawyers explain what the law is in situations where someone who was murdered has pre-existing conditions that may have contributed to his death. "You take your victim as he is," which I interpret to mean "It doesn't matter what condition or illness a victim has. If a perpetrator's actions contributed to his death, he is just as guilty as if the victim was in perfect health."

A similar defense tactic was used in the manslaughter trial of Dr. Conrad Murray (the doctor who killed Michael Jackson). His defense attorney presented evidence about Jackson's medical history to show that his death wasn't the doctor's fault. It didn't work; the doctor was convicted of manslaughter. I'm sure the dirtbag cop's attorney will use the same tactic; the coroner is already setting the stage by mentioning the victim's "Hypertension" & other conditions.
Technically, I doubt anyone is in "perfect" health at 50 years of age, or even younger; there would have to be some wear & tear; otherwise we would see professional athletes who haven't retired at that age.
Just about everyone has some "condition;" someone in absolutely-perfect health is a rarity. I think it's a shame that such "evidence" is even permitted.
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I have had cases in the past where the victim had terminal cancer, but was murdered and the Judge still allowed the Prosecutor to try the case as a murder case. The murderer was found guilty and sentenced to life.

Then there was a case in Philadelphia where the man had a heart attack and died while his killer was on trial. The judge ruled that the case could continue. He was found guilty and the case was appealed, but the Appellate Court upheld the ruling and the murderer received a life sentence for Felony Murder.

I don't think bringing Baden in is for the reason of guilt or innocence, although if it's favorable for the defense, I am sure that they will try to sneak it in. I think this is about money when the family sues. If the Coroner would say that he only had another 5 years to live, the amount will be less than if Baden would state that the victim could have lived for another 15 years.

To me, this is crazy. In many instances people have been very ill, but have hung on for many years.
 
Maybe lost in the back & forth of all this is the length of time the knee and pressure on the torso were in use to subdue a handcuffed "suspect".

I copied that from my previous post. I think I've been watching to many police TV shows. On TV they have a suspect on the ground, handcuff him or her, lift them as soon as they are cuffed, guard the suspects head as they are being placed in the back of a police car.

I think the cost of the outside forensic expert should be paid for by the police department. Transparency is woefully needed in this case.

BUT
Unless & until everything is investigated & a determination is made I'm willing to wait.
 
Off topic, but this thread is a great example of why I am glad we don't allow political discussions on this forum. Just read some of the nastiness from otherwise good hearted people just because we all see things differently. :cry:
 
Buckeye said:
Off topic, but this thread is a great example of why I am glad we don't allow political discussions on this forum. Just read some of the nastiness from otherwise good hearted people just because we all see things differently. :cry:
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Nothing wrong with nastiness when it's earned.
 
win231 said:
I'm not a lawyer, but I have heard lawyers explain what the law is in situations where someone who was murdered has pre-existing conditions that may have contributed to his death. "You take your victim as he is," which I interpret to mean "It doesn't matter what condition or illness a victim has. If a perpetrator's actions contributed to his death, he is just as guilty as if the victim was in perfect health."

A similar defense tactic was used in the manslaughter trial of Dr. Conrad Murray (the doctor who killed Michael Jackson). His defense attorney presented evidence about Jackson's medical history to show that his death wasn't the doctor's fault. It didn't work; the doctor was convicted of manslaughter. I'm sure the dirtbag cop's attorney will use the same tactic; the coroner is already setting the stage by mentioning the victim's "Hypertension" & other conditions.
Technically, I doubt anyone is in "perfect" health at 50 years of age, or even younger; there would have to be some wear & tear; otherwise we would see professional athletes who haven't retired at that age.
Just about everyone has some "condition;" someone in absolutely-perfect health is a rarity. I think it's a shame that such "evidence" is even permitted.
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Yup, "You take your victim (or Plaintiff) as he is" is a very common saying, and your interpretation of it is correct. Killing is killing.

I agree with you -- I think such a defense is BS, too.
 
911 said:
I have had cases in the past where the victim had terminal cancer, but was murdered and the Judge still allowed the Prosecutor to try the case as a murder case. The murderer was found guilty and sentenced to life.

Then there was a case in Philadelphia where the man had a heart attack and died while his killer was on trial. The judge ruled that the case could continue. He was found guilty and the case was appealed, but the Appellate Court upheld the ruling and the murderer received a life sentence for Felony Murder.

I don't think bringing Baden in is for the reason of guilt or innocence, although if it's favorable for the defense, I am sure that they will try to sneak it in. I think this is about money when the family sues. If the Coroner would say that he only had another 5 years to live, the amount will be less than if Baden would state that the victim could have lived for another 15 years.

To me, this is crazy. In many instances people have been very ill, but have hung on for many years.
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Maybe they're bringing in Dr. Baden to try to clarify the cause of death, so as to debunk any defense that it wasn't the pressure on the neck that caused Mr. Floyd's death. Not that that defense usually flies, but it can muddy up the waters for the jury, I think.
 
Buckeye said:
Off topic, but this thread is a great example of why I am glad we don't allow political discussions on this forum. Just read some of the nastiness from otherwise good hearted people just because we all see things differently. :cry:
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And I need to say ... Politics/Gov are the only things that effect us all, and that we can change, and that should be discussed above all others.

Seeing things differently .... is exactly how we arrive at a conclusion.
 
rgp said:
And I need to say ... Politics/Gov are the only things that effect us all, and that we can change, and that should be discussed above all others.

Seeing things differently .... is exactly how we arrive at a conclusion.
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I agree with rgp. Unfortunately I think things will change for the worst. It seems that no one can put Pandora back in the box. I hope I am wrong but I believe really bad things are coming. Stay safe people.
 
Butterfly said:
Maybe they're bringing in Dr. Baden to try to clarify the cause of death, so as to debunk any defense that it wasn't the pressure on the neck that caused Mr. Floyd's death. Not that that defense usually flies, but it can muddy up the waters for the jury, I think.
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That’s probably the hope, but can the judge not allow that information into evidence? On the death certificate, it asks “Manner of Death” and “Cause of Death.” I this case, the manner of death would be homicide, the cause of death would be suffocation.

If cause of death is suffocation, but he had pre existing conditions that may have contributed to his death, does that also get published on the death certificate?
 


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